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PostPosted: Fri Feb 14, 2014 3:21 pm 
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http://news.yahoo.com/1-4-americans-una ... 38500.html

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Chicago (AFP) - Americans are enthusiastic about the promise of science but lack basic knowledge of it, with one in four unaware that the Earth revolves around the Sun, said a poll out Friday.

The survey included more than 2,200 people in the United States and was conducted by the National Science Foundation.

Nine questions about physical and biological science were on the quiz, and the average score -- 6.5 correct -- was barely a passing grade.

Just 74 percent of respondents knew that the Earth revolved around the Sun, according to the results released at the American Association for the Advancement of Science meeting in Chicago.

Fewer than half (48 percent) knew that human beings evolved from earlier species of animals.

The result of the survey, which is conducted every two years, will be included in a National Science Foundation report to President Barack Obama and US lawmakers.

One in three respondents said science should get more funding from the government.

Nearly 90 percent said the benefits of science outweigh any dangers, and about the same number expressed interest in learning about medical discoveries.

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 14, 2014 3:22 pm 
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 14, 2014 3:24 pm 
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Well it really doesn't. It circles around the center of mass of the solar system which is usually inside the sun but not always.

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 14, 2014 3:50 pm 
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To the OP: /sigh


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 14, 2014 3:52 pm 
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Elmarnieh wrote:
Well it really doesn't. It circles around the center of mass of the solar system which is usually inside the sun but not always.

I suspect the number of Americans unaware of this are even greater than those that don't understand the simplification.

Lenas wrote:
What the **** are you talking about?


Elmo's right. The Earth technically doesn't orbit the sun directly - two bodies orbit each other. Ignoring the other planets in the solar system, the earth and the sun both orbit a point that is between the centers of the two bodies, called a "Barycenter," which represents the center of mass between the two bodies. The thing is, because of the incredible mass differential, the barycenter between Terra and Sol is generally located within Sol.

This is further complicated by fact that the multiple massive bodies orbiting the sun all influence each other. The planets and sun all generally orbit the barycenter of the entire solar system.

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Last edited by Talya on Fri Feb 14, 2014 4:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 14, 2014 3:55 pm 
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Lenas wrote:
To the OP: /sigh



The center mass of the solar system is the point of orbit for all mass in it including the sun, this point is occassionally not inside the sun.

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 14, 2014 3:55 pm 
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Lenas wrote:
Elmarnieh wrote:
Well it really doesn't. It circles around the center of mass of the solar system which is usually inside the sun but not always.


What the **** are you talking about?

To the OP: /sigh

Technically he is right, if you looked into the solar system from the outside you'd see the Sun wobble because the elliptical orbits of the planets cause a slight back and forth tug with the Sun.

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 14, 2014 3:57 pm 
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http://adsabs.harvard.edu/full/1936PA.....44..542J

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 14, 2014 3:57 pm 
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Yeah I edited it out, he's referring to the barycenter which I realized shortly after. I had only seen that referenced regarding planet/moon rotations. That's really just a semantic argument though, as we still revolve around the sun, even if the sun isn't the center point of our rotation :p


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 14, 2014 4:02 pm 
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But we don't. We revolved around a point usually within the sun's mass. It's not semantic at all. It's close enough for grade schoolers to get but it should be a distinction jr high and up are aware of.

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 14, 2014 4:04 pm 
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Lenas wrote:
Yeah I edited it out, he's referring to the barycenter which I realized shortly after.


Barycenters are neat. It's how astronomers are detecting extrasolar planets...the barycenter between our sun and Jupiter actually lies about 55,000 km above the surface of the sun, which would give the Sun a very perceptible wobble to an extraterrestrial astronomer looking at it from a few light years away.

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 14, 2014 4:19 pm 
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Elmarnieh wrote:
But we don't. We revolved around a point usually within the sun's mass. It's not semantic at all. It's close enough for grade schoolers to get but it should be a distinction jr high and up are aware of.


Yeah but it's a distinction that is irrelevant in the context of the original poll. Has the Earth ever had an orbit that didn't have it going around the sun?


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 14, 2014 4:22 pm 
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something smells fishy.

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 14, 2014 4:25 pm 
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Lenas wrote:
Elmarnieh wrote:
But we don't. We revolved around a point usually within the sun's mass. It's not semantic at all. It's close enough for grade schoolers to get but it should be a distinction jr high and up are aware of.


Yeah but it's a distinction that is irrelevant in the context of the original poll. Has the Earth ever had an orbit that didn't have it going around the sun?



I don't find it to be irrelevant. I'd have answered the poll no.

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 14, 2014 4:41 pm 
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Depends how they worded the question. Does the Earth revolve around the Sun? No. Does the Earth circle the Sun? Yes, yes it does. The article confuses this by using one term for the title and another in the text. Unfortunately we don't know exactly what was asked.


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 14, 2014 4:49 pm 
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Technically the Earth doesn't "circle" anything, since its orbit is an ellipse not a circle if we want to split hairs.

However, in general usage, the Earth still orbits Sol, in the same way that any object orbits another. The ISS orbits the Earth/ISS barycenter too, the only difference there is that the barycenter is within the radius of the Earth itself.


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 14, 2014 5:10 pm 
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The sun is contained within the path of the earth as it travels through the solar system. So yes, the earth does revolve around the sun. The center of mass for the system is not in the same position as the sun's center of mass.

If we want to nitpick, let's be precise about it.

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 14, 2014 5:12 pm 
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Corolinth wrote:
So yes, the earth does revolve around the sun.


Thank you.

Talya wrote:
Elmo's right. The Earth technically doesn't orbit the sun directly - two bodies orbit each other.


Looking at it this way, it's not incorrect to say that the Earth orbits the Sun. You could just follow the statement with, "just as the Sun orbits the Earth," but that doesn't make the first statement untrue.

I mean, come on, it's literally in the dictionary:

revolve |riˈvälv, riˈvôlv|
verb [ no obj. ]
move in a circle on a central axis: overhead, the fan revolved slowly.
• (revolve around/about) move in a circular orbit around: the earth revolves around the sun.


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 14, 2014 5:36 pm 
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14% of adult Americans - 32 million - supposedly can't read. I find that a much more alarming statistic. Whether we orbit the Sun or Uranus, not being able to read affects someone to a much greater extent than their knowledge of planetary physics.

http://www.statisticbrain.com/number-of ... cant-read/

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 14, 2014 5:44 pm 
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I would like to see the actual wording of the question, and does it ask if it circles, or revolves? Or is it multiple choice where one choice is "revolves" and another is "rotates"? Many people might have just confused the 2 words if that were the case.

As for "can't read", almost no adult Americans can't read at all. Generally, what's meant is that they read at some disgracefully low grade level.. but they can read at least some things. Often, also their reading comprehension is low, so even though they technically understand the words, they aren't getting the overall ideas of what they're reading.

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 14, 2014 5:55 pm 
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Diamondeye wrote:
I would like to see the actual wording of the question, and does it ask if it circles, or revolves? Or is it multiple choice where one choice is "revolves" and another is "rotates"? Many people might have just confused the 2 words if that were the case.

As for "can't read", almost no adult Americans can't read at all. Generally, what's meant is that they read at some disgracefully low grade level.. but they can read at least some things. Often, also their reading comprehension is low, so even though they technically understand the words, they aren't getting the overall ideas of what they're reading.

http://news.discovery.com/space/astrono ... -7/c07.pdf

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 14, 2014 7:25 pm 
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TheRiov wrote:
Technically the Earth doesn't "circle" anything, since its orbit is an ellipse not a circle if we want to split hairs.

However, in general usage, the Earth still orbits Sol, in the same way that any object orbits another. The ISS orbits the Earth/ISS barycenter too, the only difference there is that the barycenter is within the radius of the Earth itself.


That's not actually different. The barycenter between Terra and Sol is also within Sol (and not far off from the center of its core, either).

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 14, 2014 7:32 pm 
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Hopwin wrote:
Diamondeye wrote:
I would like to see the actual wording of the question, and does it ask if it circles, or revolves? Or is it multiple choice where one choice is "revolves" and another is "rotates"? Many people might have just confused the 2 words if that were the case.

As for "can't read", almost no adult Americans can't read at all. Generally, what's meant is that they read at some disgracefully low grade level.. but they can read at least some things. Often, also their reading comprehension is low, so even though they technically understand the words, they aren't getting the overall ideas of what they're reading.

http://news.discovery.com/space/astrono ... -7/c07.pdf


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 15, 2014 2:06 pm 
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Well damn, how complicated do you guys want to make it? The earth does not orbit the sun, nor does it orbit the barycenter. It orbits nothing, it only travels in a straight line through space-time.


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 15, 2014 4:53 pm 
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Here are the questions: http://m.livescience.com/43403-test-you ... -quiz.html

They ask, "Does the earth go around the sun, or does the sun go around the earth?"


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