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| Ukraine / Crimea Open Thread https://gladerebooted.net/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=10788 |
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| Author: | RangerDave [ Mon Mar 03, 2014 10:40 am ] |
| Post subject: | Ukraine / Crimea Open Thread |
So, thoughts on the situation in the Ukraine and what, if anything, the US and NATO should do about it? Personally, I think the best suggestion I've seen so far is to suspend Russia's membership in the G-8, put a moratorium on visas for Russian nationals in both the US and the EU, and then freeze all the oligarchs' assets held in US and EU banks. It's all easily reversible if/when Russia backs off and avoids any additional risk of direct military confrontation, but it puts a lot of personal pressure on the major power brokers within Russia who in turn can put a lot of pressure on Putin. |
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| Author: | Rorinthas [ Mon Mar 03, 2014 11:03 am ] |
| Post subject: | |
Wow sounds like a plan I can get behind, but will we? |
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| Author: | Hopwin [ Mon Mar 03, 2014 11:50 am ] |
| Post subject: | |
Leave it alone. Before we start worrying about the freedom of other nations we need to take steps domestically to reaffirm and re-establish our own. |
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| Author: | Taskiss [ Mon Mar 03, 2014 12:08 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Ukraine / Crimea Open Thread |
Need a leader with a pair or nuttin's gunna happen. SO, nuttin's gunna happen. |
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| Author: | Lex Luthor [ Mon Mar 03, 2014 12:12 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
http://news.yahoo.com/ukraine-navy-chie ... 26132.html Quote: Ukrainian Defense Ministry spokesman Maksim Prauta said four Russian navy ships were blocking Ukraine's anti-submarine warship Ternopil and the command ship Slavutych in Sevastopol's harbor. He said the Russians ordered the crew to surrender within the hour or face Russians storming and seizing the ships and crew. Russia’s fleet also ordered Ukraine’s forces in the region to surrender by 5 a.m. local time Tuesday or face “a real assault,” according to a statement from a Navy commander. This is crazy! |
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| Author: | Micheal [ Mon Mar 03, 2014 12:43 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
I would rather let the rest of NATO run this war, if there is to be one. We've carried the battle standard this far, we're weakened and weary. Go ahead Anders Fogh Rasmussen, what is the gameplan? Remember, the USA is protecting democracy and fighting many places already, use troops from the other nations for awhile. |
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| Author: | Micheal [ Mon Mar 03, 2014 1:07 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
Further, nothing good can come from putting our boots on their ground. That would start WWIII, and we would be the ones responsible. Negotiate, make sanctions, get our people and our dollars out of their conflict zone. Ship supplies to the Ukraine as we did to Afghanistan in the 80s? You all know how well that worked out. |
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| Author: | Arathain Kelvar [ Mon Mar 03, 2014 1:46 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
I honestly hate to dogpile, but this is the cost of weak foreign policy leadership. Time and time again we threaten, nothing happens. Why would anyone be worried? Further, the next few months are what matters. If Russia invades, and we kick them out of the G8 or whatever, who cares? They will have been there long enough for the pro-Russian forces to take control of the area, and then when Russia leaves, it's a second pro-Russian autonomous region. Then we declare victory and remove sanctions from Russia, and all is well. Ugh. |
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| Author: | Micheal [ Mon Mar 03, 2014 2:41 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
Okay Arathain, what would you have us do? What is a good outcome and how do we get there? |
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| Author: | Müs [ Mon Mar 03, 2014 3:27 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
How about we let the rest of the world deal with it. Tired of being the world's policeman. |
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| Author: | Lenas [ Mon Mar 03, 2014 3:38 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: |
Müs wrote: How about we let the rest of the world deal with it. Tired of being the world's policeman. Müs wrote: How about we let the rest of the world deal with it. Tired of being the world's policeman. Müs wrote: How about we let the rest of the world deal with it. Tired of being the world's policeman. Müs wrote: How about we let the rest of the world deal with it. Tired of being the world's policeman. Screw Ukraine. |
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| Author: | Rorinthas [ Mon Mar 03, 2014 4:08 pm ] |
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so we should just let russia have them? Its no big deal for a sovereign state to get invaded as long its not our sovereign state? I think that's what they said about Poland? |
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| Author: | Lex Luthor [ Mon Mar 03, 2014 4:14 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: |
Rorinthas wrote: so we should just let russia have them? Its no big deal for a sovereign state to get invaded as long its not our sovereign state? I think that's what they said about Poland? Russia can have all of Europe, who cares? Putin is a benevolent dictator anyways. It could even be a good thing. |
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| Author: | Müs [ Mon Mar 03, 2014 4:36 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: |
Rorinthas wrote: so we should just let russia have them? Its no big deal for a sovereign state to get invaded as long its not our sovereign state? I think that's what they said about Poland? Basically. If you can't defend yourself, You maybe don't deserve to be sovereign. Its not our business. |
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| Author: | Talya [ Mon Mar 03, 2014 4:41 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
Russia is counting on the fact that the west doesn't collectively have the cojones to actually do a damn thing. I'm not suggesting military actions, but the sanctions against Russia for this need to be near absolute. Isolate Russia as badly as they were isolated during the cold war. Cut them off completely from the EU and North American economies. Disable GPS functionality in Russian territory. Block all internet traffic into their country. Russia provides nothing we need, but they damn well need what we have. |
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| Author: | Lenas [ Mon Mar 03, 2014 4:44 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Ukraine / Crimea Open Thread |
I'm okay with sanctions and things like what Taly is suggesting. I just don't want the USA to get physically involved, Ukraine is going to get too attached and then we're just gonna have to sneak out while they're asleep. No military presence please. |
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| Author: | FarSky [ Mon Mar 03, 2014 4:48 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
Out of curiosity for the folks suggesting military intervention...where are we supposed to get the money for that? The Venn diagram of "hawks" and "fiscal conservatives" is virtually a single circle, and we're already broke to boot. |
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| Author: | Kaffis Mark V [ Mon Mar 03, 2014 4:52 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
The world is addicted to the US's forces as enforcers of sovereignty. We need to wean them off it, or start charging for our active presence or passive threat of involvement and role as peace keepers. This also, of course, shows what a crock the UN is, when the security council can't actually do something it was obviously set up to do because one of the members with a permanent veto decides the system was built to let them get away with being an aggressor. At the same time, I do think it's a good idea to not encourage Russia in its notion that devouring neighboring nations is the path to becoming relevant again on the world stage. |
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| Author: | Corolinth [ Mon Mar 03, 2014 5:16 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
Actually, the Cold War was pretty good for our economy. The nuclear arms race spurred the growth of our job market. Beefing with Russia is much better than futzing around in the Middle East. If anything, we're totally going to pick a fight with Russia simply because we miss them so much. |
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| Author: | Kaffis Mark V [ Mon Mar 03, 2014 5:21 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
Ooh. Also, cutting off GPS service to Russia would force them to launch new satellites of their own, which could prod us back into space! |
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| Author: | Rorinthas [ Mon Mar 03, 2014 5:25 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: |
Talya wrote: Russia is counting on the fact that the west doesn't collectively have the cojones to actually do a damn thing. I'm not suggesting military actions, but the sanctions against Russia for this need to be near absolute. Isolate Russia as badly as they were isolated during the cold war. Cut them off completely from the EU and North American economies. Disable GPS functionality in Russian territory. Block all internet traffic into their country. Russia provides nothing we need, but they damn well need what we have. exactly or rather they need to be shown playing nice is in their best interest. They aren't an islamic theocracy, I think they can be make to see the light if we show them we are serious. |
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| Author: | Midgen [ Mon Mar 03, 2014 5:31 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
I would be very hesitent to commit miltary forces. And it would only be under the conditions that Germany, France and Great Britain were there leading the charge. Isolating them economically is fine with me, except that it would probably only provoke them further, and certainly wouldn't do anything to help Ukraine, unless of course the plan actually worked (unlikely, at least in the short term). |
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| Author: | Rorinthas [ Mon Mar 03, 2014 5:47 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: |
FarSky wrote: Out of curiosity for the folks suggesting military intervention...where are we supposed to get the money for that? The Venn diagram of "hawks" and "fiscal conservatives" is virtually a single circle, and we're already broke to boot. Same way we pay for whatever you like the government to do, but I'm not advocating military intervention. |
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| Author: | Hopwin [ Mon Mar 03, 2014 7:04 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
For the people advocating sanctions against Russia you should ask yourselves how many European's would freeze to death. Do some research. |
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| Author: | TheRiov [ Mon Mar 03, 2014 7:20 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
"I have seen our enemies at Munich. They are worms." |
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