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More stupid generational info
https://gladerebooted.net/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=10815
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Author:  Hopwin [ Wed Mar 12, 2014 1:20 pm ]
Post subject:  More stupid generational info

http://www.cnn.com/2014/03/11/opinion/f ... hpt=hp_bn7

Bold = Me
Quote:
The millennials are growing up, but they are not growing out of their liberalism.

The generation born since 1981 is the age group most likely to vote Democratic. The eldest of them are in their 30s now, and they continue to be much more liberal than previous-age cohorts at the same point in their lives. A big new survey by the Pew Research Center seeks to understand why. Its report carries political warnings for conservatives -- and some larger warnings for us all.

The warning for conservatives is: Millennial attachment to the Democratic Party is not a phase. Millennials are far less likely to be religiously affiliated than their elders. They are more likely to have children outside marriage (47% of their children are born outside marriage, compared with only 35% of Generation X children in 1996). They are poorer than their predecessor generations at the same point in their life cycles.

Despite facing higher levels of unemployment and student loans, millennials stand out -- in Pew's phrase -- "as the nation's most stubborn economic optimists." A majority expect that they will earn enough money in the future to live the lives they want. Let's hope their dreams come true. But looking at the demographic and economic statistics, that's not the way to bet. What then?

Here's a generation detached from religious institutions and only weakly attached to the country: Only 49% of millennials describe themselves as patriotic, compared with 64% of the next older cohort and 75% of baby boomers. Millennials are alienated. What will happen if they feel disappointed as well?

One prediction about their future is already coming true: The millennial generation will be a generation characterized by high levels of inter-ethnic political conflict.

Among the young as among the old, political preferences are cleaved by race and ethnicity. One obvious example: Non-white millennials approve of President Obama's job performance by a 2-1 ratio. White millennials disapprove by almost the same margin.

By a margin of 52% to 39%, white millennials prefer a smaller government that offers fewer services to a bigger government that offers more. Non-white millennials say the opposite by a margin of 71% to 21%. These numbers show a racial gap about the same as among the older cohorts.

However, since non-whites make up a bigger portion of the millennials than in older generations, their overwhelming preference for a more activist government will sway future elections even more than recent ones.

Good news for liberals? Maybe. But maybe not. Since John F. Kennedy's clarion "ask not," liberals have tried to call Americans to a politics of common purpose. The continuing sharp divide between the politics of the country's dwindling white former majority and its emerging non-white new majority may portend that common purpose will recede even further out of reach than ever.

A quality of millennials that leaps out from the survey is their deep mistrust of other people.

In response to the question, "Generally speaking, would you say that most people can be trusted or that you can't be too careful in dealing with people," just 19% of millennials say most people can be trusted, compared with 31% of Generation Xers, 37% of the silent generation and 40% of boomers.

Pew hypothesizes that this low level of trust is a consequence of the economic vulnerability of the milllennial generation: "People who feel vulnerable or disadvantaged for whatever reason find it riskier to trust because they're less well-fortified to deal with the consequences of misplaced trust."

Yet there's another -- and more ominous -- explanation lurking in the numbers. Robert Putnam of "Bowling Alone" fame has collected data showing that social trust declines as a community becomes more ethnically diverse.

"The short run effect of being around people who are different from us is to make all of us uncertain -- to hunker down, to pull in, to trust everybody less. Like a turtle in the presence of some feared threat, we pull in."

In other words, in a more diverse society, it's not just those who feel vulnerable who trust less. In a more diverse society, everybody trusts less. The clarion call of common purpose begins to sound more like a warning alarm that your group is about to be used for the benefit of another. The accusation that the (non-white) "takers" are plundering the (white) "makers" has powered protest politics since 2009. If anything, that accusation looks likely to increase in its political effect in the years ahead.

As America has become more ethnically diverse, political leaders have insisted ever more persistently that this diversity is a source of strength. Let's hope that proves to be true. America will need that strength in a future that, by the number, seems likely to be more mutually suspicious, more alienated, more unequal and less united by patriotism.


Liberals who favor smaller government that does less... right. The millennials need to invest in dictionaries and self-education.

Author:  Lenas [ Wed Mar 12, 2014 1:33 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: More stupid generational info

I'm glad you recognize the problem with using a single word to label an entire group. You realize you can be liberal in some areas and conservative in others, right?

Author:  Hopwin [ Wed Mar 12, 2014 1:42 pm ]
Post subject: 

Did you read through the article? In addition to the governmental opinion:

Quote:
The millennial generation will be a generation characterized by high levels of inter-ethnic political conflict. Among the young as among the old, political preferences are cleaved by race and ethnicity. One obvious example: Non-white millennials approve of President Obama's job performance by a 2-1 ratio. White millennials disapprove by almost the same margin.


I thought racial equality and harmony were banners that liberals claim as one of their planks?

Quote:
A quality of millennials that leaps out from the survey is their deep mistrust of other people. In response to the question, "Generally speaking, would you say that most people can be trusted or that you can't be too careful in dealing with people," just 19% of millennials say most people can be trusted


Same as above, I thought it was the liberals that claim to be their brothers keeper and that people are more likely to be inherently good and act to the benefit of their fellow man?

Author:  Lenas [ Wed Mar 12, 2014 2:16 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: More stupid generational info

Of course I did, but I don't think the issues are related.

Quote:
In other words, in a more diverse society, it's not just those who feel vulnerable who trust less. In a more diverse society, everybody trusts less.


This is not something that only affects "us" liberals, and if that's your interpretation I think it needs tweaking. We're more liberal and we're less trusting, but we're not less trusting because we're liberal. You probably trust people and the government less than you ever have in any given period of your life, but you're certainly not a liberal.

Author:  Hopwin [ Wed Mar 12, 2014 2:26 pm ]
Post subject: 

Image

None of the qualities and characteristics described in the article match any definition of the word liberal I have ever seen. If your definition of liberal is anti-government, racially-divided, cynical, skeptical of their fellow man and untrusting, well that's cool.

I suppose the point I am making is that perhaps millennials view the term "liberal" as cooler and self-label themselves that way without actually checking to see where their true beliefs place them on the political spectrum.

Author:  Diamondeye [ Wed Mar 12, 2014 2:32 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: More stupid generational info

Millenials are the first generation not old enough to remember the Cold War or previous conflict. They have been raised in an era of a country between major external threats that has supposedly endless resources for handouts, but that should demand nothing in return.

Author:  Talya [ Wed Mar 12, 2014 2:37 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: More stupid generational info

Diamondeye wrote:
Millenials are the first generation not old enough to remember the Cold War or previous conflict. They have been raised in an era of a country between major external threats that has supposedly endless resources for handouts, but that should demand nothing in return.


That doesn't fit the data that over half of white millenials prefer a smaller government with less services, and generally have an optimistic economic outlook on their ability to look after themselves. They're not looking for handouts, they want to do away with the nanny-state.

Hopwin:

"Liberal" does not mean what you think it means.


This is also a big issue, because neither the "right" nor the "left" in American politics represents this group of people.

Author:  Hopwin [ Wed Mar 12, 2014 2:40 pm ]
Post subject: 

Agreed Taly, but I sincerely doubt millennials are referencing classical liberalism in their self-described labels. It is possible, but given the literacy levels, lack of philosophy from any broadly followed curriculum and the general knowledge level of most Americans I really don't think it a likely possibility. I find it far more likely that the thought process is "OMGZOR Katy Perry is liberal! John Stewart is liberal! I need a new iPhone, I mean I am liberal too!"

Author:  Lenas [ Wed Mar 12, 2014 2:41 pm ]
Post subject:  Re:

Hopwin wrote:
None of the qualities and characteristics described in the article match any definition of the word liberal I have ever seen. If your definition of liberal is anti-government, racially-divided, cynical, skeptical of their fellow man and untrusting, well that's cool.


I don't define people with single words or mindsets. Khross once described me as a socially liberal, fiscal conservative and I think that's apt. Once again you're ignoring that the racial relations mentioned in the article are not tied to liberalism at all. Anti-government, cynical, yeah my generation can be accused of those things, but they have nothing to do with being liberal.

These are all separate issues and you're lumping them all together.

Author:  Hopwin [ Wed Mar 12, 2014 2:43 pm ]
Post subject: 

Fair enough since my definition is wrong, let's use yours. What is a liberal?

Author:  Talya [ Wed Mar 12, 2014 2:45 pm ]
Post subject:  Re:

Hopwin wrote:
Agreed Taly, but I sincerely doubt millennials are referencing classical liberalism in their self-described labels. It is possible, but given the literacy levels, lack of philosophy from any broadly followed curriculum and the general knowledge level of most Americans I really don't think it a likely possibility.


They may not be referencing it, but it IS their attitude.

And honestly, if you're a classical liberal, the Democrats are "the lesser of two evils."

Yes, they want to tax and spend and increase government bloat and all sorts of other annoying crap. But ultimately, so do the Republicans. However, the Republican party comes with more other irritating baggage than the Democrats. Religious influence in politics is just one of them. Ultimately, both parties are economically bad. But the Republican party is a bigger threat to social freedom.

Author:  Müs [ Wed Mar 12, 2014 3:07 pm ]
Post subject: 

The current political group is exactly the same with regards to fiscal matters. They both want to spend their way to prosperity (granted in different areas, but still).

With regards to social matters, the "Republicans" are fascist, jackbooted, jesusy thugs that want to control your social life. The Democrats are socialist, hippie, godless heathens that just want to spend your money as they see fit.

They both suck, but socially the Dems are going to do less damage and actually promote more freedom and civil rights.

Author:  Talya [ Wed Mar 12, 2014 3:12 pm ]
Post subject:  Re:

Müs wrote:
The current political group is exactly the same with regards to fiscal matters. They both want to spend their way to prosperity (granted in different areas, but still).

With regards to social matters, the "Republicans" are fascist, jackbooted, jesusy thugs that want to control your social life. The Democrats are socialist, hippie, godless heathens that just want to spend your money as they see fit.

They both suck, but socially the Dems are going to do less damage and actually promote more freedom and civil rights.


That's what I just said! ;)

Author:  Müs [ Wed Mar 12, 2014 3:13 pm ]
Post subject: 

I like my way better. I like calling republicans jackbooted thugs.

Author:  RangerDave [ Wed Mar 12, 2014 3:38 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: More stupid generational info

Quote:
By a margin of 52% to 39%, white millennials prefer a smaller government that offers fewer services to a bigger government that offers more.

This certainly rings true to me. Most of the white 20-somethings I know are fervently opposed to staying on their parents' health insurance courtesy of the ACA, accepting federal student loans to attend subsidized universities, collecting unemployment, taking public transit (in urban areas) instead of buying a car, requiring net neutrality, increasing banking regulations, pollution limits, anti-sexual harassment laws, extending anti-discrimination laws to homosexuals, etc., etc. Yep, they sure are a generation of small-government zealots!

Author:  Kaffis Mark V [ Wed Mar 12, 2014 3:42 pm ]
Post subject:  Re:

Müs wrote:
They both suck, but socially the Dems are going to do less damage and actually promote more freedom and civil rights.

Oh, so that's why Obama and Reid are leading the charge to curtail the NSA, right?

Author:  Müs [ Wed Mar 12, 2014 4:31 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Re:

Kaffis Mark V wrote:
Müs wrote:
They both suck, but socially the Dems are going to do less damage and actually promote more freedom and civil rights.

Oh, so that's why Obama and Reid are leading the charge to curtail the NSA, right?


I didn't say no damage. I said less. I don't see anyone leading the charge to curtail the NSA.

Author:  Hopwin [ Wed Mar 12, 2014 4:54 pm ]
Post subject:  Re:

Müs wrote:
I like my way better. I like calling republicans jackbooted thugs.

I like your better too :D

Can you amend it to include something about punching women in the vagina?

Author:  Diamondeye [ Wed Mar 12, 2014 4:57 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: More stupid generational info

Talya wrote:
Diamondeye wrote:
Millenials are the first generation not old enough to remember the Cold War or previous conflict. They have been raised in an era of a country between major external threats that has supposedly endless resources for handouts, but that should demand nothing in return.


That doesn't fit the data that over half of white millenials prefer a smaller government with less services, and generally have an optimistic economic outlook on their ability to look after themselves. They're not looking for handouts, they want to do away with the nanny-state.

Sure it does. Along with that is basically wanting to ignore and trivialize external issues as "big government." They have been raised in an environmen of nebulous, non-existential threats and ten so see every action aimed at external issues as "big government" because they have been told all their lives that those threats were eradicate around 1990 or so. Because there is no threat, current or potential, they see any obligation to th common situation at all as a burden.
itics represents this group of people.[/quote]

Author:  Müs [ Wed Mar 12, 2014 4:58 pm ]
Post subject: 

Because our government has told us for years that we can fight a war against an ideology.
War on Drugs, War on Crime, War on Terror.

So why not a War on Big Government? It should be just as successful.

Author:  Diamondeye [ Wed Mar 12, 2014 5:00 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Re:

Talya wrote:
Hopwin wrote:
Agreed Taly, but I sincerely doubt millennials are referencing classical liberalism in their self-described labels. It is possible, but given the literacy levels, lack of philosophy from any broadly followed curriculum and the general knowledge level of most Americans I really don't think it a likely possibility.


They may not be referencing it, but it IS their attitude.

And honestly, if you're a classical liberal, the Democrats are "the lesser of two evils."

Yes, they want to tax and spend and increase government bloat and all sorts of other annoying crap. But ultimately, so do the Republicans. However, the Republican party comes with more other irritating baggage than the Democrats. Religious influence in politics is just one of them. Ultimately, both parties are economically bad. But the Republican party is a bigger threat to social freedom.

Except that it isn't, except to people for whom "religion" is a boogeyman. Democrats and the left have far wider and more severe threats to social freedom, many not dissimilar from those of " religious" people.

Author:  Diamondeye [ Wed Mar 12, 2014 5:06 pm ]
Post subject:  Re:

Müs wrote:
Because our government has told us for years that we can fight a war against an ideology.
War on Drugs, War on Crime, War on Terror.

So why not a War on Big Government? It should be just as successful.

Noneof those is an ideology, and they really arent even comparable. As for biggovernment, the size of government overall isnt the issue, its the particular actions different parts of it take. Small government cantake bad action as easy as big - and most can be traced right back to the people.

Author:  Lenas [ Wed Mar 12, 2014 5:15 pm ]
Post subject:  Re:

Hopwin wrote:
Fair enough since my definition is wrong, let's use yours. What is a liberal?


Someone open to new behavior or opinions and willing to discard traditional values. In a political context, someone favoring maximum individual liberty in political and social reform.

RangerDave wrote:
Most of the white 20-somethings I know are fervently opposed to staying on their parents' health insurance courtesy of the ACA, accepting federal student loans to attend subsidized universities, collecting unemployment, taking public transit (in urban areas) instead of buying a car, requiring net neutrality, increasing banking regulations, pollution limits, anti-sexual harassment laws, extending anti-discrimination laws to homosexuals, etc., etc.


This is pretty much the way I try to operate aside from owning my own car, which is kind of a requirement when your city has awful public transit. If I lived elsewhere I'd get rid of it.

Author:  Xequecal [ Thu Mar 13, 2014 1:23 am ]
Post subject:  Re: More stupid generational info

Am I the only one who doesn't see any contradictions in the article? A 71/21 split for more government amongst nonwhites easily overpowers a 52/39 split for less government amongst whites. The minority population of the US definitely trends younger, especially if illegal immigrants are counted and I see no way that these studies could exclude them.

Author:  Hannibal [ Thu Mar 13, 2014 6:43 am ]
Post subject:  Re: More stupid generational info

Xequecal wrote:
Am I the only one who doesn't see any contradictions in the article? A 71/21 split for more government amongst nonwhites easily overpowers a 52/39 split for less government amongst whites. The minority population of the US definitely trends younger, especially if illegal immigrants are counted and I see no way that these studies could exclude them.


The article is also saying that the non white liberals are fractured among ethnic lines. So the liberal dilemma is going to be how to wrangle the most votes across that spectrum. IMO that is going to lead to more of the same wishy washy policies that are big general ideas with few details.

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