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PostPosted: Mon Mar 17, 2014 2:58 pm 
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http://time.com/25370/doctor-adhd-does-not-exist/

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Over the course of my career, I have found more than 20 conditions that can lead to symptoms of ADHD, each of which requires its own approach to treatment. Raising a generation of children—and now adults—who can't live without stimulants is no solution.

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This Wednesday, an article in the New York Times reported that between 2008 and 2012 the number of adults taking medications for ADHD has increased by 53%, and that in the case of young American adults, it has nearly doubled. While this is a staggering statistic, and points to younger generations becoming frequently reliant on stimulants, frankly, I’m not too surprised. Over the course of my 50-year-long career in behavioral neurology and treating patients with ADHD, it has been in the past decade that I have seen these diagnoses truly skyrocket. Every day my colleagues and I see more and more people coming in claiming they have trouble paying attention at school and at work, and diagnosing themselves with “ADHD.”

If someone finds it difficult to pay attention or feels somewhat hyperactive, “Attention-deficit and Hyperactivity Disorder” has those symptoms right there in its name. It’s an easy, catch-all phrase, which saves time for doctors to boot. But can we really lump all these people together? What if there are other things causing people to feel distracted? I don’t deny that we, as a population, are more distracted today than we ever were before. And I don’t deny that some of these patients who are distracted and impulsive need help. But what I do deny is the generally accepted definition of ADHD, which is long overdue for an update. In short, I’ve come to believe based on decades of treating patients that ADHD — as currently defined by the DSM and as it exists in the public imagination — does not exist.

Allow me to explain what I mean.

Ever since 1937, when Dr. Charles Bradley discovered that children who displayed symptoms of attention-deficit hyperactivity responded well to Benzedrine, a stimulant, we have been thinking about this “disorder” in almost the same way. Soon after Bradley’s discovery the medical community began labeling children exhibiting these symptoms as having “minimal brain dysfunction,” or MBD, and treating them with the stimulants Ritalin and Cylert. In the intervening years, the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders, or DSM, changed the label numerous times, from “hyperkinetic reaction of childhood” (it wasn’t until 1980 that the DSM-III introduced a classification for adults with the condition), to the current label ADHD. But regardless of the label, we have been giving patients different variants of stimulant medication to cover up the symptoms. You’d think that after decades of advancements in neuroscience, we would shift our thinking.

Today, the fifth edition of the DSM only requires one to fulfill five of eighteen possible symptoms to qualify for an ADHD diagnosis. If you haven’t seen the list yet, look it up. It will probably bother you. How many of us can claim we have difficulty with organization, or a tendency to lose things; that we are frequently forgetful, distracted, or fail to pay close attention to details? Under this subjective criteria, the entire U.S. population could potentially qualify. We’ve all had these moments, and in moderate amounts, it’s a normal part of the human condition.

However, there are some instances in which attention symptoms are severe enough that patients truly need help. Over the course of my career, I have found more than 20 conditions that can lead to symptoms of ADHD, each of which requires its own approach to treatment. Among these are sleep disorders, undiagnosed vision and hearing problems, substance abuse (marijuana and alcohol in particular), iron deficiency, allergies (especially airborne and gluten intolerance), bipolar and major depressive disorder, obsessive compulsive disorder, and even learning disabilities like dyslexia, to name a few. Anyone with these issues will fit the ADHD criteria outlined by the DSM, but stimulants are not the way to treat them.

“What’s so bad about stimulants?” you might be wondering. They seem to help a lot of people, don’t they? The aforementioned article in the Times mentions that the “drugs can temper hallmark symptoms like severe inattention and hyperactivity but also carry risks like sleep deprivation, appetite suppression and, more rarely, addiction and hallucinations.” But this is only part of the picture.

Firstly, addiction to stimulant medication is not rare; it is common. The drugs’ addictive qualities are obvious. We only need to observe the many patients who are forced to periodically increase their dosage if they want to concentrate. This is because the body stops producing the appropriate levels of neurotransmitters that ADHD meds replace — a trademark of addictive substances. I worry that a generation of Americans won’t be able to concentrate without this medication; big pharma is understandably not as concerned.

Secondly, there are many side-effects to ADHD medication that most people are not aware of: increased anxiety, irritable or depressed mood, severe weight loss due to appetite suppression, and even potential for suicide. But there are consequences that are even less well-known. For example, many patients who are on stimulants report having erectile dysfunction when they are on the medication.

Thirdly, stimulants work for many people in the short-term, but in cases where there is an underlying condition causing them to feel distracted, the drugs serve as Band-Aids at best, masking and sometimes exacerbating the source of the problem.

In my view, there are two types of people who are diagnosed with ADHD: those who exhibit a normal level of distraction and impulsiveness, and those who have another condition or disorder that requires individual treatment.

For my patients who are the former, I recommend that they eat right, exercise more often, get eight hours of quality sleep a night, minimize caffeine intake in the afternoon, monitor their cellphone use while they’re working, and most importantly, do something they’re passionate about. As with many children who act out because they are not being challenged enough in the classroom, adults who have work or class subjects that are not personally fulfilling, or who don’t engage in a meaningful hobby, will understandably become bored, depressed, and distracted. Similarly, today’s standards are pressuring children and adults to perform better and longer at school and at work. I too often see patients who hope to excel on four hours of sleep a night with help from stimulants, but this is a dangerous, unhealthy and unsustainable way of living long-term.

For my second group of patients, who have severe attention issues, I make them undergo a full evaluation to find the source of the problem. Usually, once the original condition is found and treated, the ADHD symptoms go away.

It’s time to rethink our understanding of this condition, offer more thorough diagnostic work, and help people get the right treatment for attention deficit and hyperactivity.



Did ADHD exist when people were hunter-gatherers? Maybe it has a lot to do with the difficulty of coping with modern life.

edit:

oops, forgot link


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 17, 2014 5:06 pm 
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his theory is that it's several disorders.

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 17, 2014 6:06 pm 
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I've been rather annoyed by the diagnostic standard for ADHD for years, now.

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 17, 2014 6:11 pm 
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What diagnostic standard?

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 17, 2014 6:46 pm 
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Exactly.

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 18, 2014 8:32 am 
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I'm reminded of a quote from one of my martial art instructors. "Huck Finn wouldn't have been the same on Ritalin"


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 25, 2014 7:38 am 
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That's a really weird quote from that context.

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 25, 2014 10:12 am 
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My personal theory is that bad and lazy parents never want to be told that they're bad and lazy parents. So society gives them all the excuses they need to understand why their parenting skills are spectacular and that it must be something else's fault when their kids aren't "perfect." To me, ADHD is just another example of this on a very long list of examples.

I am sure ADHD exists and is a very real and challenging thing to live with. I just don't buy that it's as widespread as it is. Kids have short attention spans. Kids are loud. Kids are full of energy. Stop putting them on drugs just because you can't handle being a parent while trying to play video games or watching your favorite show.

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 25, 2014 10:31 am 
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Numbuk wrote:
My personal theory is that bad and lazy parents never want to be told that they're bad and lazy parents. So society gives them all the excuses they need to understand why their parenting skills are spectacular and that it must be something else's fault when their kids aren't "perfect." To me, ADHD is just another example of this on a very long list of examples.

I am sure ADHD exists and is a very real and challenging thing to live with. I just don't buy that it's as widespread as it is. Kids have short attention spans. Kids are loud. Kids are full of energy. Stop putting them on drugs just because you can't handle being a parent while trying to play video games or watching your favorite show.


This x1000.

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 25, 2014 11:02 am 
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ADHD has detectable symptoms in the brain, particularly a deficit in certain neurotransmitters.
Children with ADHD typically have deficits in decision making ability (They make decisions like someone ~ 2/3rds their age, so a 12 year old makes the decisions like a 8 year old)
ADHD meds are STIMULANTS. ADHD kids are more frenetic because they are self-stimulating--their brains crave the additional stimulation. If they don't get it from medicine, ADHD individuals are something like 4x more likely to abuse drugs (which also raise the same neurotransmitters as ADHD meds) Call me a bad parent but I'd rather my child got a controlled dose of a FDA regulated medication than what they get off the street corner.

While its nice and good that you all have such strong opinions about a disorder you apparently know very little about, (and the drugs they use to treat it) but this has nothing to do with parents being bad or lazy.


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 25, 2014 11:50 am 
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TheRiov wrote:
ADHD has detectable symptoms in the brain, particularly a deficit in certain neurotransmitters.
Children with ADHD typically have deficits in decision making ability (They make decisions like someone ~ 2/3rds their age, so a 12 year old makes the decisions like a 8 year old)
ADHD meds are STIMULANTS. ADHD kids are more frenetic because they are self-stimulating--their brains crave the additional stimulation. If they don't get it from medicine, ADHD individuals are something like 4x more likely to abuse drugs (which also raise the same neurotransmitters as ADHD meds) Call me a bad parent but I'd rather my child got a controlled dose of a FDA regulated medication than what they get off the street corner.

While its nice and good that you all have such strong opinions about a disorder you apparently know very little about, (and the drugs they use to treat it) but this has nothing to do with parents being bad or lazy.


How about the doctor in the OP? Does he not know anything about it either?

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 25, 2014 12:38 pm 
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It's a combination of single parent households and schools. Society has largely forgotten how energetic young boys are. Our society expects little boys to be quiet and sit still, which most adult males realize is a losing proposition. Unfortunately, adult males are a minority in any environment that involves children.

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 25, 2014 12:56 pm 
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TheRiov wrote:
Call me a bad parent


Okay.

TheRiov wrote:
but I'd rather my child got a controlled dose of a FDA regulated medication than what they get off the street corner.


Yes because the best answer to someone having an erratic and highly addictive personality is to put them on highly addictive drugs like methamphetamines.


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 25, 2014 1:13 pm 
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Defining "Normal" with any kind of rigid boundary, combined with "there's a pill for that", and you get where we are now...


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 25, 2014 1:41 pm 
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Until you actually do all the research yourself, have spoken to multiple medical professionals including therapists, psychiatrists, psychologists, and pediatricians, all of whom come to the same conclusion then you get to comment. When you've lived with my child for 14 years and watched the things she struggles with and can see, on a daily basis, how much her quality of life IMPROVES, then you get to comment. When you have read through dozens upon dozens of research articles on the subject, and a number of medical textbooks on the subject then you can comment.

Until then, you're just talking out your ***.

Lets take a quick pro-con

a) Does the patient's quality of life improve? Yes.
b) Does the patient's academic performance improve? Yes.
c) Does the patient display increased social skills, ability to interact with peers? Yes
d) Does the patient's overall health improve, including sleep behavior? Yes.
e) Is there any evidence of long term damage, addiction or negative health impact to date? No.
f) Have you attempted the various non-drug related treatments suggested in the various literature? YES.


Thanks. Now go away, and spout your nonsense somewhere else.


Last edited by TheRiov on Tue Mar 25, 2014 1:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 25, 2014 1:43 pm 
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Oh, and for the record, there is some evidence that treating ADHD with caffeine is may be promising. It could well be another case of patients finding a treatment before doctors do.


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 25, 2014 2:19 pm 
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TheRiov wrote:
Until you actually do all the research yourself, have spoken to multiple medical professionals including therapists, psychiatrists, psychologists, and pediatricians, all of whom come to the same conclusion then you get to comment. When you've lived with my child for 14 years and watched the things she struggles with and can see, on a daily basis, how much her quality of life IMPROVES, then you get to comment. When you have read through dozens upon dozens of research articles on the subject, and a number of medical textbooks on the subject then you can comment.

Until then, you're just talking out your ***.

Lets take a quick pro-con

a) Does the patient's quality of life improve? Yes.
b) Does the patient's academic performance improve? Yes.
c) Does the patient display increased social skills, ability to interact with peers? Yes
d) Does the patient's overall health improve, including sleep behavior? Yes.
e) Is there any evidence of long term damage, addiction or negative health impact to date? No.
f) Have you attempted the various non-drug related treatments suggested in the various literature? YES.


Thanks. Now go away, and spout your nonsense somewhere else.


So, I was one of the first kids in the US to be diagnosed as "ADD/ADHD" (although they called it "hyperactive" at the time) and was prescribed a daily dose of dextroamphetamine.

Further, my X took my son to a doctor and got him diagnosed as ADD/ADHD and he had a daily dose of ritalin. I fought it, lost.

It's bullshit. ADD/ADHD doesn't exist. It's a fancy way of identifying the behavior of a kid that finds it difficult to sit in school and do what they're told.

If you can tell people to spout somewhere else because you have a kid with that behavior, then I'm guessing I have several times more credibility to base my anecdotal evidence on. SO, back atcha. Go away.

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 25, 2014 2:30 pm 
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So lets take it as given that both you and your son's diagnosis is wrong. That means the diagnosis doesn't actually exist?
If you're misdiagnosed with whooping cough and all you really have is a cold, then pertussis doesn't actually exist?

If I've seen a Liger, and you have not, does that mean that Ligers do not exist?

I'll take your anecdotal evidence, counter with my own anecdotal evidence plus my books and books of actual research, actual evidence, statistics, and the opinions of multiple medical medical and psychological professionals.


Last edited by TheRiov on Tue Mar 25, 2014 2:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 25, 2014 2:40 pm 
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TheRiov wrote:
So lets take it as given that both you and your son's diagnosis is wrong. That means the diagnosis doesn't actually exist?
If you're misdiagnosed with whooping cough and all you really have is a cold, then pertussis doesn't actually exist?

I'll take your anecdotal evidence, counter with my own anecdotal evidence plus my books and books of actual research, actual evidence, statistics, and the opinions of multiple medical medical and psychological professionals.

But continue trying to sound like you know what you're talking about. Its cute.


No, let's take it as a given that you're unable to deal with your kids behavior and take the easy way out by drugging your kid.

Thing is, you're screwing that kid for life. Nobody gives an adult a pass 'cause they have trouble staying on track and getting their work done. The discipline necessary to sit down and get your work done is directly proportional to yearly reviews, raises, and a paycheck.

So, you're denying your kid the opportunity to deal with the challenges and learn to overcome them now by kicking their can down the road by drugging them.

What a great parent!

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 25, 2014 2:43 pm 
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No, you just allow your child to fail academically, live a life of isolation because they drive off their friends with erratic behavior, and then die of drug overdose as a heroin addict.


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 25, 2014 2:45 pm 
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TheRiov wrote:
No, you just allow your child to fail academically, live a life of isolation because they drive off their friends with erratic behavior, and then die of drug overdose as a heroin addict.


^ says the guy drugging his kid.

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 25, 2014 2:49 pm 
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Yes. I deliver the wonders of modern medicine unto my child.
Guess what? I also use antibiotics when she suffers from a bacterial infection.

I also make sure she's vaccinated.

I've even been known to give her over the counter analgesics when she has a headache and cough suppressants when she's coughing.


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 25, 2014 2:49 pm 
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TheRiov wrote:
ADHD has detectable symptoms in the brain, particularly a deficit in certain neurotransmitters.

This is just outdated and wrong. No deficit in neurotransmitters in people with ADHD has been found (prior to them being exposed to stimulants anyway). Here's an interesting article on this

TheRiov wrote:
a) Does the patient's quality of life improve? Yes.
b) Does the patient's academic performance improve? Yes.
c) Does the patient display increased social skills, ability to interact with peers? Yes

Um, source for any of these? They're all wrong from what I've read. Performance and quality of life may improve in the short term, but there is no evidence of a long term benefit in academic performance or quality of life.

The NIMH has been doing a study on this very question and the results after 6-8 years show no benefit to the use of stimulants in treating ADHD. Source


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 25, 2014 2:56 pm 
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TheRiov wrote:
Yes. I deliver the wonders of modern medicine unto my child.
Guess what? I also use antibiotics when she suffers from a bacterial infection.

I also make sure she's vaccinated.

I've even been known to give her over the counter analgesics when she has a headache and cough suppressants when she's coughing.


You're drugging your kid 'cause of a BEHAVIOR! Not a physical defect or a threatening physical condition.

So, what is it about your kid's behavior that you want to drug him or her ... change him or her ...?

You'd accept your kid if your kid was gay, right? So... accept their behavior 'cause they have a higher abundance of energy than 90% of the other kids in the world. Just say no, and stop drugging your kid.

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 25, 2014 2:57 pm 
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and from same sources...
http://www.healthline.com/health/adhd/a ... plications
http://www.healthline.com/health-news/m ... ood-030413

and the refutation of Baughman's claim, from that same article:

http://www.thelancet.com/journals/lance ... 4/fulltext


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