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| "Garage Hopping" shooting https://gladerebooted.net/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=10948 |
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| Author: | TheRiov [ Thu May 22, 2014 8:49 am ] |
| Post subject: | "Garage Hopping" shooting |
http://www.cnn.com/video/data/2.0/video ... nn-ap.html In a possibly unexpected move, TheRiov has trouble being too upset with the shooter. Why on earth would CNN characterize this as a "prank"? its not a prank. Its burglary. Its trespassing. Possibly home invasion. Possibly vandalism. Now, me, I probably wouldn't have shot first, but I can see after being burglarized twice before the owner would be scared enough to pull the trigger. Biggest fault I have at all is: You've been robbed twice before; WHY would you continue to leave your garage door open????? |
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| Author: | Micheal [ Thu May 22, 2014 12:58 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
To lure in the burglar again, shoot them in self defense, and get yourself a George Z get out of jail free card. |
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| Author: | Müs [ Thu May 22, 2014 2:02 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
"Armed Homeowner Kills Burglar" should be the headline. |
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| Author: | Kaffis Mark V [ Thu May 22, 2014 2:14 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
I'm a bit flabbergasted at his family's quote. "What kind of laws do they have over there?" Um.. your kid was tresspassing and stealing.. what kind of laws do you NOT have over there? |
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| Author: | Corolinth [ Thu May 22, 2014 3:22 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: "Garage Hopping" shooting |
Stay out of people's houses and garages if you're not invited. Also, **** Europe. |
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| Author: | RangerDave [ Thu May 22, 2014 3:50 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: |
Müs wrote: "Armed Homeowner Kills Burglar" should be the headline. "Armed Homeowner Kills Unarmed Teenage Burglar in Garage" is more accurate. Leaving out the fact that the burglar was an unarmed teenager in the guy's garage creates the impression of a more dangerous/threatening situation (e.g., hardened criminals climbing in through your living room window at night) than was actually the case. |
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| Author: | RangerDave [ Thu May 22, 2014 3:56 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: |
Kaffis Mark V wrote: I'm a bit flabbergasted at his family's quote. "What kind of laws do they have over there?" Um.. your kid was tresspassing and stealing.. what kind of laws do you NOT have over there? I can understand their bewilderment and outrage. Most people in the western world don't think it's morally acceptable to kill people for property crimes, and the ubiquity of guns in the US is fairly unique as well, so getting killed for stealing something out of someone's garage is just not something they expect. It'd be like an American getting executed for smoking pot while traveling in Singapore. To most of us, it'd be a ridiculously disproportionate and unjust result, but to people in Singapore, it would seem like a "no ****, what'd you expect?" kind of thing. |
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| Author: | Müs [ Thu May 22, 2014 5:47 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Re: |
RangerDave wrote: Müs wrote: "Armed Homeowner Kills Burglar" should be the headline. "Armed Homeowner Kills Unarmed Teenage Burglar in Garage" is more accurate. Leaving out the fact that the burglar was an unarmed teenager in the guy's garage creates the impression of a more dangerous/threatening situation (e.g., hardened criminals climbing in through your living room window at night) than was actually the case. Nope. Doesn't matter that he was unarmed nor that he was a teenager. He was a burglar. That's all that matters. I don't get the defense of criminal activity. Don't want to get shot? Don't **** burgle houses! |
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| Author: | RangerDave [ Thu May 22, 2014 6:10 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Re: |
Müs wrote: Nope. Doesn't matter that he was unarmed nor that he was a teenager. He was a burglar. That's all that matters. I don't get the defense of criminal activity. Don't want to get shot? Don't **** burgle houses! It's not a defense of criminal activity; it's a call for proportionality of consequences. Is proportionality not a component of justice in your view? |
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| Author: | Hopwin [ Thu May 22, 2014 6:32 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Re: |
RangerDave wrote: Müs wrote: Nope. Doesn't matter that he was unarmed nor that he was a teenager. He was a burglar. That's all that matters. I don't get the defense of criminal activity. Don't want to get shot? Don't **** burgle houses! It's not a defense of criminal activity; it's a call for proportionality of consequences. Is proportionality not a component of justice in your view? How did the homeowner know he was unarmed? Should he have paused to ask? |
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| Author: | RangerDave [ Thu May 22, 2014 6:46 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Re: |
Hopwin wrote: How did the homeowner know he was unarmed? Should he have paused to ask? Um, yes? I don't think it's reasonable to just shoot a trespasser without first determining the threat level unless the circumstances require a snap decision. Going outside to confront a trespasser who's in your garage doesn't qualify. |
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| Author: | Müs [ Thu May 22, 2014 6:51 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Re: |
RangerDave wrote: Müs wrote: Nope. Doesn't matter that he was unarmed nor that he was a teenager. He was a burglar. That's all that matters. I don't get the defense of criminal activity. Don't want to get shot? Don't **** burgle houses! It's not a defense of criminal activity; it's a call for proportionality of consequences. Is proportionality not a component of justice in your view? How is it not on the criminal to have accepted the possible outcomes when he decided to commit the crime? Why are we blaming the victim for defending his home? Proportionality doesn't enter into it. He was on the man's property, intent on committing theft. He deserved what he got. If he wasn't committing a crime, he wouldn't have gotten shot. Simple as that. |
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| Author: | Rorinthas [ Thu May 22, 2014 6:52 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: "Garage Hopping" shooting |
I'm personally not a big fan of shooting trespassers, but I'm also not a big fan of trespassers. It's hard to argue with the man in the clutch defending his life and property. If he felt it was justified, then anyone outside the situation needs to show extra proof that he was malicious. |
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| Author: | Xequecal [ Thu May 22, 2014 7:09 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: "Garage Hopping" shooting |
I'm not going to criticize someone's decision to shoot a home invader. The owner has no idea what this kid was up to. What really bothers me is how remorseless people tend to be after the fact. He's not a "criminal," it's a kid doing stupid kid ****. You did stuff like this as a teenager too. The shooting was OK at the time, but how much of a sociopath do you have to be to not even feel bad about it? The attitude of "Good, one less worthless waste of humanity in the world" is just terrifying. |
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| Author: | Müs [ Thu May 22, 2014 7:44 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: "Garage Hopping" shooting |
Xequecal wrote: You did stuff like this as a teenager too. No. I didn't. |
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| Author: | Xequecal [ Thu May 22, 2014 7:47 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
You never wandered into someone's already-opened garage uninvited? Yeah, you weren't stealing anything when you were in there, but that's another one of those "after the fact" things that he didn't know either. |
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| Author: | RangerDave [ Thu May 22, 2014 7:57 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: "Garage Hopping" shooting |
Xequecal wrote: home invader. Let's just be clear on what happened here. From what I understand, the owner/shooter and his wife were in the living room watching TV around midnight when they heard (and, I think, saw via CCTV) that someone was in their garage, so the owner got his shotgun, went outside, stood in the driveway, and fired multiple shots through the open garage door at the person he now had cornered in there. This was not some startled/frightened guy awoken by burglars climbing in through his bedroom window. |
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| Author: | Müs [ Thu May 22, 2014 8:20 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: |
Xequecal wrote: You never wandered into someone's already-opened garage uninvited? Yeah, you weren't stealing anything when you were in there, but that's another one of those "after the fact" things that he didn't know either. Nope. Not my property, not my business to be in there. Hell, I don't even walk into my friend's house when I have an invitation to do so. I ring the bell, you let me in. Aside from that, I ain't going in. |
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| Author: | Müs [ Thu May 22, 2014 8:21 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: "Garage Hopping" shooting |
RangerDave wrote: Xequecal wrote: home invader. Let's just be clear on what happened here. From what I understand, the owner/shooter and his wife were in the living room watching TV around midnight when they heard (and, I think, saw via CCTV) that someone was in their garage, so the owner got his shotgun, went outside, stood in the driveway, and fired multiple shots through the open garage door at the person he now had cornered in there. This was not some startled/frightened guy awoken by burglars climbing in through his bedroom window. Doesn't matter. Dude shouldn't have been in there in the first place. |
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| Author: | Corolinth [ Thu May 22, 2014 8:28 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
Let's be clear what happened here. A man with a wife and baby, who had already been robbed twice, responded to the third unlawful invasion with force. That is perfectly appropriate. Did the teenager know the homeowner was on edge after two burglaries? No, he didn't. However, he did know he was breaking into someone's home to steal property. When you are in a foreign land, with different laws, it behooves you to obey laws that are pretty much laws anywhere, such as those regarding theft and trespassing. If I steal a pack of cigarettes from a gas station in Missouri, I probably get fined $50 and banned from that gas station. If I steal a pack of cigarettes from a gas station in Saudi Arabia, I get my **** hand cut off. It's irrelevant whether I think Saudi Arabia is a land of barbaric savages. The whole thing can be avoided by paying for the cigarettes with money. |
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| Author: | Xequecal [ Thu May 22, 2014 8:40 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
"Garage hopping" is pretty common amongst teens everywhere precisely because of how easy it is to do it. There's no breaking involved, you basically find people who leave their garages open, walk in, grab some beer out of their fridge, and leave. A lot of kids did it at both my high schools. I've never committed this specific crime, but I'm definitely going to call bullshit on anyone that claims they never stole $20 worth of stuff as a teenager, ever. Like I said, we definitely shouldn't be charging the shooter with any crimes, but it's still a tragedy that this happened. The fact that people are glad that the teenager is dead for committing a minor property crime is just astounding and speaks of outright sociopathy. When homecoming runs around, maybe he should find a high vantage point with a rifle and just start wasting the kids that are going around toilet-papering houses! Get up high enough and he can see the whole neighborhood and blast them all! Doesn't have to be just his house he's protecting, he's a model American "protecting" his fellow property owners and getting rid of a bunch of worthless degenerates that we don't need or want! |
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| Author: | LadyKate [ Thu May 22, 2014 8:47 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
I think the whole thing was a horrible mistake....the homeowner was on edge with a wife and small baby in the house after having been through two recent burglaries (protective dad anyone??) and the teenager just happened to be in the wrong place at the wrong time doing the wrong thing. I do not think the homeowner is "justified"....I'd charge him with involuntary manslaughter or something similar that carried some weight to show consequence but not enough to put him behind bars. Charge him, apologize to the teen's family, and give him a 12 month suspended sentence so he doesn't actually serve time. Also, where the hell was the host family in all of this?? This teen was a foreigner...it was their job to protect him and inform him that getting shot was a definite possible consequence. Someone needs to call them out on this. |
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| Author: | RangerDave [ Thu May 22, 2014 9:49 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: |
Xequecal wrote: I'm definitely going to call bullshit on anyone that claims they never stole $20 worth of stuff as a teenager, ever. Nah, you're very wrong on that point, Xeq (as long as we're not counting unlicensed IP). I'd wager that very few of my friends have ever flat out stolen something. I certainly never have (again, other than a few unlicensed music downloads). Hell, when I was like a little kid, my mom saw me eat a grape in the grocery store and made me march up and tell the cashier to teach me a lesson. That said, I think small-time vandalism (e.g., TP-ing a house, egging a car, etc.) is extremely common and, by the "it's muh right ta shoot anyone who messes with muh stuff" logic, those are apparently all capital offenses. |
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| Author: | Khross [ Thu May 22, 2014 10:00 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Re: |
RangerDave wrote: That said, I think small-time vandalism (e.g., TP-ing a house, egging a car, etc.) is extremely common and, by the "it's muh right ta shoot anyone who messes with muh stuff" logic, those are apparently all capital offenses. Breaking and entering constitutes a deliberate and immediate threat of harm to one's person, property, and any persons in their home. Fairly certain people have the right to make themselves secure in their own property. If you have a problem with that, teach your kids not to do stupid **** that might get them shot.It works in the rest of the world. |
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| Author: | Xequecal [ Thu May 22, 2014 10:28 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Re: |
Khross wrote: RangerDave wrote: That said, I think small-time vandalism (e.g., TP-ing a house, egging a car, etc.) is extremely common and, by the "it's muh right ta shoot anyone who messes with muh stuff" logic, those are apparently all capital offenses. Breaking and entering constitutes a deliberate and immediate threat of harm to one's person, property, and any persons in their home. Fairly certain people have the right to make themselves secure in their own property. If you have a problem with that, teach your kids not to do stupid **** that might get them shot.It works in the rest of the world. The rest of the world? When you say that, do you mean the third world? I can't think of many developed countries that both allow widespread gun possession and allow lethal force against trespassers. |
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