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Non-discrimination used as excuse to supoena sermons
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Author:  Diamondeye [ Wed Oct 15, 2014 3:27 pm ]
Post subject:  Non-discrimination used as excuse to supoena sermons
Remember, if you're a lesbian mayor your city is somehow permitted to demand pastors hand over their sermons for you to screen.

It's totally irrelevant what the pastors were preaching or why the city wanted the sermons - how knowing what was in a sermon would establish what ballot petition signatures were legitimate is beyond me.

I'm sure someone will be along to tell us all how the government screening sermons is essential to separation of church and state, though.
Author:  Corolinth [ Wed Oct 15, 2014 4:22 pm ]
Post subject: 
Well, one thing you can be sure of, that heinous dyke is a fellow Christian.
Author:  Diamondeye [ Wed Oct 15, 2014 5:09 pm ]
Post subject:  Re:
Corolinth wrote:
Well, one thing you can be sure of, that heinous dyke is a fellow Christian.


No one said anything about a heinous dyke - which isn't the problem. The problem is that she's using governmental authority to supoena sermons and other pastoral communications for.. well, something or other.

The fact that she's a Christian herself makes this no better.

You might be able to understand this issue a bit better if you put aside the idea that the problem must be with her sexuality for 5 minutes.
Author:  Müs [ Wed Oct 15, 2014 5:21 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Re:
Diamondeye wrote:
if you put aside the idea that the problem must be with her sexuality for 5 minutes.


Diamondeye wrote:
Remember, if you're a lesbian mayor


Mr. Pot. a Mr. Kettle on line 2 for you.
Author:  Rorinthas [ Wed Oct 15, 2014 5:25 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Non-discrimination used as excuse to supoena sermons
Give up DE they don't care they don't want to hear it.
Author:  Müs [ Wed Oct 15, 2014 5:38 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Non-discrimination used as excuse to supoena sermons
Rorinthas wrote:
Give up DE they don't care they don't want to hear it.


I get it. And she's terrible for doing it.

Its just more fun to pick on DE. ;)
Author:  Diamondeye [ Wed Oct 15, 2014 5:42 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Re:
Müs wrote:
Diamondeye wrote:
if you put aside the idea that the problem must be with her sexuality for 5 minutes.


Diamondeye wrote:
Remember, if you're a lesbian mayor


Mr. Pot. a Mr. Kettle on line 2 for you.


Not really. She's counting on her sexuality, and taking a stance of "anti-discrimination" to excuse this action. The problem isn't that she's a lesbian, it's that her sexuality is being used to excuse this (by implication; no one is dumb enough to come right out and say "she's gay so it's ok"). If she were straight, it would be a straight up (pun intended) case of them sticking their fingers in the church.
Author:  Diamondeye [ Wed Oct 15, 2014 5:42 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Non-discrimination used as excuse to supoena sermons
Müs wrote:
Rorinthas wrote:
Give up DE they don't care they don't want to hear it.


I get it. And she's terrible for doing it.

Its just more fun to pick on DE. ;)


And people wonder why I don't take complaints about government excess too seriously. The outrage is highly selective.
Author:  Müs [ Wed Oct 15, 2014 5:53 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Non-discrimination used as excuse to supoena sermons
Diamondeye wrote:
Müs wrote:
Rorinthas wrote:
Give up DE they don't care they don't want to hear it.


I get it. And she's terrible for doing it.

Its just more fun to pick on DE. ;)


And people wonder why I don't take complaints about government excess too seriously. The outrage is highly selective.


I find it very difficult to get all het up over much of anything anymore. Its all shitty. That's not going to change. No sense in giving myself an ulcer over it.
Author:  Diamondeye [ Wed Oct 15, 2014 6:12 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Non-discrimination used as excuse to supoena sermons
Müs wrote:
Diamondeye wrote:
Müs wrote:
Rorinthas wrote:
Give up DE they don't care they don't want to hear it.


I get it. And she's terrible for doing it.

Its just more fun to pick on DE. ;)


And people wonder why I don't take complaints about government excess too seriously. The outrage is highly selective.


I find it very difficult to get all het up over much of anything anymore. Its all shitty. That's not going to change. No sense in giving myself an ulcer over it.



Didn't you just get married? What's the wife say about that?
Author:  Lenas [ Wed Oct 15, 2014 6:30 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Non-discrimination used as excuse to supoena sermons
Diamondeye wrote:
I'm sure someone will be along to tell us all how the government screening sermons is essential to separation of church and state, though.


Doubt it, this chick went full retard.
Author:  Corolinth [ Wed Oct 15, 2014 6:57 pm ]
Post subject: 
Texas has a religious test to hold public office. Given that she is mayor, this woman has professed a belief in a Supreme Being. Now, while that doesn't specifically require her to be a Christian, let's face it, she's a Christian, and is required to be Christian to be mayor.

Please, continue to complain about violating the separation of church and state.
Author:  Müs [ Wed Oct 15, 2014 7:20 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Non-discrimination used as excuse to supoena sermons
Diamondeye wrote:
Müs wrote:
Diamondeye wrote:
Müs wrote:
Rorinthas wrote:
Give up DE they don't care they don't want to hear it.


I get it. And she's terrible for doing it.

Its just more fun to pick on DE. ;)


And people wonder why I don't take complaints about government excess too seriously. The outrage is highly selective.


I find it very difficult to get all het up over much of anything politically related anymore. Its all shitty. That's not going to change. No sense in giving myself an ulcer over it.



Didn't you just get married? What's the wife say about that?


Fixed it for me.

And not married till March. ;)
Author:  Diamondeye [ Thu Oct 16, 2014 8:46 am ]
Post subject:  Re:
Corolinth wrote:
Texas has a religious test to hold public office. Given that she is mayor, this woman has professed a belief in a Supreme Being. Now, while that doesn't specifically require her to be a Christian, let's face it, she's a Christian, and is required to be Christian to be mayor.


The Equal Protection Clause makes that provision of the Texas Constitution unenforceable even if it has not technically been repealed - much like the protections of the First Amendment are incorporated to the states - sorry, Stolen Concept still does not work.

Quote:
Sec. 6. FREEDOM OF WORSHIP. All men have a natural and indefeasible right to worship Almighty God according to the dictates of their own consciences. No man shall be compelled to attend, erect or support any place of worship, or to maintain any ministry against his consent. No human authority ought, in any case whatever, to control or interfere with the rights of conscience in matters of religion, and no preference shall ever be given by law to any religious society or mode of worship. But it shall be the duty of the Legislature to pass such laws as may be necessary to protect equally every religious denomination in the peaceable enjoyment of its own mode of public worship.


Furthermore, disqualifying people from public office based on lack of belief would certainly qualify as "controlling or interfering with rights of conscience in matters of religion", so that "religious test" doesn't even pass muster in terms of other portions of the Texas Constitution itself. It's an obsolete unenforceable provision that just hasn't been formally repealed.

Furthermore, as hard as it may be for you to believe, there are plenty of gay, bisexual, and other various orientations that are Christians, or for that matter, other religions, and they actually believe it.

Quote:
Please, continue to complain about violating the separation of church and state.


I will, thanks. Please continue to educate yourself on the concept prior to having an opinion. Other people's freedom may be inconvenient to you, but that's the way it works. There's no "escape clause" from the First Amendment where you get to engage in pedantry to find any technically oppressive language you can, then use that as a clause to excuse violations of the First Amendment just because you don't like that the supposedly enlightened crowd has been caught doing exactly what they complain about.
Author:  Diamondeye [ Thu Oct 16, 2014 8:47 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Non-discrimination used as excuse to supoena sermons
Lenas wrote:
Diamondeye wrote:
I'm sure someone will be along to tell us all how the government screening sermons is essential to separation of church and state, though.


Doubt it, this chick went full retard.


I wish this were true, but Coro delivered.
Author:  Talya [ Thu Oct 16, 2014 3:33 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Non-discrimination used as excuse to supoena sermons
I think you missed his point. You'll disagree with his point (I could poke several holes in it if I felt like it), but you missed it.

Corolinth is basically stating that this is a case of Christians oppressing different Christians, with an unstated-but-implied "**** you all, suckers. You made your bed, now sleep in it."

My stance:
This isn't a religion issue, nor a separation of church & state issue.
This isn't a gay-rights issue.

This is a free-speech and the US constitution issue. If some jackass wants to get up on his soap box and proclaim how his Invisible Sky Bully hates me for putting my tongue in another woman's pussy, well, he's just as free to do that as he is to get up on his soap box and proclaim the earth is flat. I don't care; in both cases he's a **** idiot that isn't worth the carbon atoms in his body. All you do by trying to muzzle them is bring attention to their pathetic cause.
Author:  Diamondeye [ Thu Oct 16, 2014 4:14 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Non-discrimination used as excuse to supoena sermons
Talya wrote:
I think you missed his point. You'll disagree with his point (I could poke several holes in it if I felt like it), but you missed it.

Corolinth is basically stating that this is a case of Christians oppressing different Christians, with an unstated-but-implied "**** you all, suckers. You made your bed, now sleep in it."


And Corolinth is wrong. The fact that the mayor is a Christian also makes this no better, and if the mayor were an atheist or what the **** ever else its not like she would behave differently. People are people, and atheists are no less likely than anyone else to understand that the way to get what you want in western societies is to try to rules-lawyer what you want into being "freedom" and what you don't want into being "oppression". To make an MMO analogy, in the current meta, being the victim is the winning combo; if you don't do that you are Doing It Wrong.

No one should be surprised that Christians are trying to appear to be victims; they learned it from everyone else. In this case though, they actually are and Coro is butt-hurt that it's actually true for once.

Quote:
My stance:
This isn't a religion issue, nor a separation of church & state issue.
This isn't a gay-rights issue.

This is a free-speech and the US constitution issue. If some jackass wants to get up on his soap box and proclaim how his Invisible Sky Bully hates me for putting my tongue in another woman's pussy, well, he's just as free to do that as he is to get up on his soap box and proclaim the earth is flat. I don't care; in both cases he's a **** idiot that isn't worth the carbon atoms in his body. All you do by trying to muzzle them is bring attention to their pathetic cause.


I'd generally agree, except that it's very much a separation of church and state issue right along with being a free speech issue. If "The government may not interfere with what a church preaches" is not a "separation of church and state" issue then nothing is.

I also find it amusing (this part is not directed at you) that the folks in Houston are looking at sermons on homosexuality in response to a law that allows people to use a bathroom based on what they claim to "identify" as. Gender identity is different from sexual orientation, but we've got this ever expanding LGBT<insert loads of additional letters here>/ "queer"/whatever it is this week movement that endlessly conflates them.

Gender identity issues are psychological/medical issues that require treatment of various intensity, at the high end involving significant reconstructive surgery. Gender identity issues can be and are treated by modern medicine and psychological science.

Sexual orientation, on the other hand is not a medical or psychological issue at all; no known treatment exists, and even if it did no treatment is necessary. Homosexuality is a state of being, but it is not a medical or psychological problem.

It is perfectly understandable that a person might have no issue whatsoever with homosexual rights, same sex marriage, etc., or even transgendered people and issues, and still object to someone of the opposite sex using the same bathroom just because that person "identifies" as the same sex based on nothing but their say-so.

This action is picture0perfect leveraging of victim politics, as if a woman who doesn't want to pee in front of some fat neckbeard who claims to "identify as a woman", especially in the bus station at 2:00 a.m. is the product of some preacher hollering about the imagined sins of homosexuals. This is not actually about tolerance at all, but about manufacturing oppression to fight. If every church everywhere just face-heel-turned tomorrow and said "you know what, **** it, homosexuality is fine!!" these people would be utterly paralyzed. The entire issue is about tapping into anti-gay sermons to link that to people not wanting to pee in front of the opposite sex as if the two issues were somehow the same.
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