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Predators, Reapers, Insurgents, Oh my!! https://gladerebooted.net/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=1166 |
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Author: | Ladas [ Thu Dec 17, 2009 8:41 am ] |
Post subject: | Predators, Reapers, Insurgents, Oh my!! |
Insurgents hack into video feeds from US Drones |
Author: | Diamondeye [ Thu Dec 17, 2009 9:03 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: Predators, Reapers, Insurgents, Oh my!! |
Link seems to be bnroken, but I knew it would happen sooner or later. This is why I think going to an all-UAV air force is a pie in the sky idea. If insurgents can do it so can Russia or China. |
Author: | Kaffis Mark V [ Thu Dec 17, 2009 9:11 am ] |
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I was hoping this was a misplaced StarCraft II update. |
Author: | Ladas [ Thu Dec 17, 2009 9:42 am ] |
Post subject: | |
Fixed the link, sorry about that. |
Author: | Ladas [ Thu Dec 17, 2009 9:43 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: Predators, Reapers, Insurgents, Oh my!! |
Diamondeye wrote: Link seems to be bnroken, but I knew it would happen sooner or later. This is why I think going to an all-UAV air force is a pie in the sky idea. If insurgents can do it so can Russia or China. They did it with software from the internet that can be bought for $26.00. Fortunately, at least according to the military, they weren't able to take control or disrupt operation of the drones, but by hacking the video links, were able to see what area were under surveillance, etc. |
Author: | Diamondeye [ Thu Dec 17, 2009 9:52 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: Predators, Reapers, Insurgents, Oh my!! |
Ladas wrote: Diamondeye wrote: Link seems to be bnroken, but I knew it would happen sooner or later. This is why I think going to an all-UAV air force is a pie in the sky idea. If insurgents can do it so can Russia or China. They did it with software from the internet that can be bought for $26.00. Fortunately, at least according to the military, they weren't able to take control or disrupt operation of the drones, but by hacking the video links, were able to see what area were under surveillance, etc. Can't say I'm surprised. This was bound to happen eventually. It's why the "everything is connected to the internet" you see in movies is so silly; ther's a lot of things that there's no reason to connect. The worst example I cn think of is that "Eagle Eye" movie, where the computer makes the electric lines come apart at a specific point and kill a guy. Come on, why would you build the physical ability into a power line to be remotely separated, and then connect that ability to the internet or even to something like SIPRNET? Or where it remotely ejects an F-16 pilot.. that system is totally mechanical. If you made it so it could be remote activeated hat would just create a way for enemy forces to ahck your fighters and eject the pilots. |
Author: | Arathain Kelvar [ Thu Dec 17, 2009 12:37 pm ] |
Post subject: | |
I'm so unsurprised that I'm actually very surprised. This is so obvious that I just assumed a solution had been developed. |
Author: | Diamondeye [ Thu Dec 17, 2009 1:07 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: Predators, Reapers, Insurgents, Oh my!! |
I'm sure it would have happened sooner if there were no measures in place at all. It's just proof that absolute security is a myth. |
Author: | Ladas [ Thu Dec 17, 2009 1:20 pm ] |
Post subject: | |
From what I have read, there were no measures in place... it probably took so long because even the insurgents figured it was too stupid to not be covered. This wasn't hacking as in compromising the security system, it was simply intercepting the video feed broadcasts... more akin to using your neighbors unsecured wireless connection. |
Author: | Diamondeye [ Thu Dec 17, 2009 1:23 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: |
Ladas wrote: From what I have read, there were no measures in place... it probably took so long because even the insurgents figured it was too stupid to not be covered. This wasn't hacking as in compromising the security system, it was simply intercepting the video feed broadcasts... more akin to using your neighbors unsecured wireless connection. I doubt that very much, since it's sent over SIPRNET in the first place. Probably what's meant is the actual video feed itself has no additional measures on top of the security of SIPRNET. I'm not going to say more on this. |
Author: | Ladas [ Thu Dec 17, 2009 1:28 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: Re: |
Diamondeye wrote: I doubt that very much, since it's sent over SIPRNET in the first place. Probably what's meant is the actual video feed itself has no additional measures on top of the security of SIPRNET. From the article.. Quote: Senior defense and intelligence officials said Iranian-backed insurgents intercepted the video feeds by taking advantage of an unprotected communications link in some of the remotely flown planes' systems. Shiite fighters in Iraq used software programs such as SkyGrabber -- available for as little as $25.95 on the Internet -- to regularly capture drone video feeds, according to a person familiar with reports on the matter. Quote: Senior military and intelligence officials said the U.S. was working to encrypt all of its drone video feeds from Iraq, Afghanistan and Pakistan, but said it wasn't yet clear if the problem had been completely resolved.
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Author: | Diamondeye [ Thu Dec 17, 2009 3:01 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: Re: |
Ladas wrote: Diamondeye wrote: I doubt that very much, since it's sent over SIPRNET in the first place. Probably what's meant is the actual video feed itself has no additional measures on top of the security of SIPRNET. From the article.. Quote: Senior defense and intelligence officials said Iranian-backed insurgents intercepted the video feeds by taking advantage of an unprotected communications link in some of the remotely flown planes' systems. Shiite fighters in Iraq used software programs such as SkyGrabber -- available for as little as $25.95 on the Internet -- to regularly capture drone video feeds, according to a person familiar with reports on the matter. Quote: Senior military and intelligence officials said the U.S. was working to encrypt all of its drone video feeds from Iraq, Afghanistan and Pakistan, but said it wasn't yet clear if the problem had been completely resolved. Yes, I know what the article said. |
Author: | Stathol [ Thu Dec 17, 2009 3:27 pm ] |
Post subject: | |
Uh...this really doesn't have anything to do with whether the UAVs were hooked up to SIPRNET, NIPRNET, or even the public Internet. That's a perfectly reasonable thing to do. They have to get the telemetry from these things somehow, and obviously that's going to require some kind of wireless data link -- satellite in this case. With the appropriate encryption mechanisms in place, this doesn't pose any significant security risk (for now). The real issue is that they were broadcasting this data over an unencrypted satellite uplink. Considering the amount of SIGINT and COMINT business the feds have had their hands in, they damn well ought to know how inexcusably stupid that is. |
Author: | Aizle [ Thu Dec 17, 2009 3:29 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: |
Stathol wrote: The real issue is that they were broadcasting this data over an unencrypted satellite uplink. Considering the amount of SIGINT and COMINT business the feds have had their hands in, they damn well ought to know how inexcusably stupid that is. This. Especially the inexcusably stupid part. |
Author: | Aethien [ Thu Dec 17, 2009 4:25 pm ] |
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I need Skygrabber, just to play with. But, their website is pretty slammed today ... ! |
Author: | Diamondeye [ Thu Dec 17, 2009 8:44 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: Predators, Reapers, Insurgents, Oh my!! |
Be careful believing what you read about exactly how this went down. More to the point, think about what you'd do if you were managing damage control in the aftermath of this disaster.. pragmatically. |
Author: | Micheal [ Thu Dec 17, 2009 8:55 pm ] |
Post subject: | |
I'd be asking a lot of questions about why the security encryption wasn't secured so that the signal could not be ungarbled, why we were once again underestimating the enemy, and asking how we can improve the system so this doesn't happen again. Then I would be asking the programmers to develop how to give them false broadcast feeds to gawk at while the Predator was somewhere else. |
Author: | Diamondeye [ Thu Dec 17, 2009 8:58 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: |
Micheal wrote: I'd be asking a lot of questions about why the security encryption wasn't secured so that the signal could not be ungarbled, why we were once again underestimating the enemy, and asking how we can improve the system so this doesn't happen again. Then I would be asking the programmers to develop how to give them false broadcast feeds to gawk at while the Predator was somewhere else. That's a good start. Now think more deviously. What assumption are you making here? I know that normally here we go based on what information is available. I'm not saying we necessarily shouldn't here. I'm trying to point out something else. How would you try to not just control the damage but gain an advantage from the situation? |
Author: | Vindicarre [ Thu Dec 17, 2009 10:39 pm ] |
Post subject: | |
Let it be known that they "hijacked" the info with easily available tech (whether that was the case or not) - that you can leverage your own knowledge of said tech in order to gain info about the "hijackers' when they try again? |
Author: | Micheal [ Thu Dec 17, 2009 10:48 pm ] |
Post subject: | |
Start tracking the purchases of said 'low tech' equipment to get an idea about who wants to hack in to the system. Investigate buyers, discreetly, quietly, and put together a strike plan if you hit the jackpot. |
Author: | Midgen [ Fri Dec 18, 2009 4:17 am ] |
Post subject: | |
Encryption is highly over rated. It's easily compromised with brute force (in several different ways). Even if you created enough complexity in the encryption system to deter trying to break it, you still have to worry about the phyisical security of the equipment... One downed drone, or captured mobility trailer, etc... |
Author: | Diamondeye [ Fri Dec 18, 2009 7:46 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: |
Vindicarre wrote: Let it be known that they "hijacked" the info with easily available tech (whether that was the case or not) - that you can leverage your own knowledge of said tech in order to gain info about the "hijackers' when they try again? This, but even more devious. Michael wrote: Start tracking the purchases of said 'low tech' equipment to get an idea about who wants to hack in to the system. Investigate buyers, discreetly, quietly, and put together a strike plan if you hit the jackpot. This too, but like I said, something more. Let me give you a hint.. wouldn't you sort of dangle a carrot out there to lure people into trying again? |
Author: | Micheal [ Fri Dec 18, 2009 7:58 am ] |
Post subject: | |
Make them kind of trackable, targetable, so they can be fired upon, then have their silent shadow blow up the firing site. |
Author: | Diamondeye [ Fri Dec 18, 2009 8:18 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: |
Micheal wrote: Make them kind of trackable, targetable, so they can be fired upon, then have their silent shadow blow up the firing site. I suppose that could be done although their main defense against anything insurgents have is their small size. All you'd really do is fly lower, and if they could take a shot you'd inevitably lose some drones in the process of killing guys with MANPAD SAMs that really are pretty ubiquitous anyhow. It's a possibility, but not what I was thinking of. Wouldn't you maybe try to tempt people into trying the same thing, maybe by making it sound easier than it actually was so you can figure out where the smart, tech-savvy bad guys are? |
Author: | Vindicarre [ Fri Dec 18, 2009 9:05 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: Re: |
I thought that was what I suggested, heheh. Diamondeye wrote: Wouldn't you maybe try to tempt people into trying the same thing, maybe by making it sound easier than it actually was... Quote: Let it be known that they "hijacked" the info with easily available tech (whether that was the case or not) Diamondeye wrote: ... so you can figure out where the smart, tech-savvy bad guys are? Quote: ...you can leverage your own knowledge of said tech in order to gain info about the "hijackers' when they try again?
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