The Glade 4.0

Yea or Nay

Do you believe it will pass?

Have you read it or any in depth analysis of it?

Does it directly affect you?

Do you want it to pass or fail?

How do you think it will affect Americans in general?

Thanks

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The U. S. Constitution doesn't guarantee happiness, only the pursuit of it. You have to catch up with it yourself. B. Franklin

"A mind needs books like a sword needs a whetstone." -- Tyrion Lannister, A Game of Thrones

Nay, not in present incarnation, only know what various talking heads have said on both sides, no, fail, not an issue for most Americans but detrimental to poorest, preexisting conditions are not compatible with system without mandates or single payer.

...

Until we get over this notion that health insurance = health care, we have no hope of providing either at the government level.

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Buckle your pants or they might fall down.

We probably don't have any hope of providing health care at the government level regardless. Allow me to present the VA system as exhibit A.

Trump is doing this for pure political points. What he wants (and probably Ryan too) is for something to pass the house and fail the Senate so he can claim he tried to do something, but the Senate stopped him from fixing health insurance/care "bigly".

Unfortunately, no meaningful progress will be made until someone says to the parade of people that come to scream about how they'd "be dead" without Obamacare at Townhalls that:

A) no, you wouldn't (and if you think that anyone dies of lack of health insurance you're an idiot) and
B) Even if you would, we don't make public policy based on you personally or on edge cases generally.

We create policy to address situations broadly. Properly crafted policy includes mechanisms to deal with edge cases, and to filter out non-edge cases trying to game the system. The problem is that the press loves presenting edge cases as human interest stories in order to get the tail wagging the dog. Then we get **** policies and the press gets to double up, reporting on how expensive the policy is, but also parading more edge cases on camera to complain about how they'll supposedly die if the shitty policy is fixed.

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"Hysterical children shrieking about right-wing anything need to go sit in the corner and be quiet while the adults are talking."

Astute.

Also, until we get over the notion that insurance is something you offer for unknown costs, it will never be both affordable and widely available. This whole thing where you expect to have an affordable health insurance premium as well as $5 co-pays on semi-annual check-ups and "I've got the sniffles, proscribe me some medicine" visits with real doctors is the reason nobody can draft a bill that satisfies anybody. Because that's not how insurance works.

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"Aaaah! Emotions are weird!" - Amdee
"... Mirrorshades prevent the forces of normalcy from realizing that one is crazed and possibly dangerous. They are the symbol of the sun-staring visionary, the biker, the rocker, the policeman, and similar outlaws." - Bruce Sterling, preface to Mirrorshades

I vote no to all "entitlement" programs that are not earned, most especially when there is no annual appropriation requirement.

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In time, this too shall pass.

Indeed, the whole problem is a result of a lot of government meddling. If you can't hit the nail on the head, please don't try. Regardless of how people are affected one way or the other by the ACA, it's still all **** up. Do it right or don't do it.

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"...the line dividing good and evil cuts through the heart of every human being. And who is willing to destroy a piece of his own heart?" -Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn

And scrapped for lack of support within their own party.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/house-gop-ab ... 17133.html

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The U. S. Constitution doesn't guarantee happiness, only the pursuit of it. You have to catch up with it yourself. B. Franklin

"A mind needs books like a sword needs a whetstone." -- Tyrion Lannister, A Game of Thrones

With no individual mandate, healthcare insurers will drop out of the marketplaces, if the cost-sharing rebates get dropped, that's the end for it. Relying on others to pay your fair share don't look so good now, does it?

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In time, this too shall pass.

lulz.

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Holy shitsnacks!

Look, I get it. It has helped some people. All I want is for them to take the gun away from my head. That **** fine for not having coverage makes me want to kill people. These *** hats couldn't even get that right.

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Raell Kromwell

As long as Medicare exists and is politically untouchable, free-market cost savings are impossible. EMTALA guarantees acute problems won't kill you, and chronic problems left untreated just get worse and worse until eventually Medicare or Medicaid has to foot the bill anyways. Any money saved by repealing Obamacare just has to get repaid with interest later.

Any system other than single payer is stupid as long as Medicare continues to exist. If you want real capitalist reform, you have to go after it first.

Well, that's certainly not going to happen when you try to ram through some bullshit in a week or two just to say you accomplished something. Obamacare is terrible, but at least Obama put in the effort to work on it for over a year before Nancy Pelosi admitted she had no idea what it actually did (a year is plenty of time to make it as obtuse as possible). Evidently the way to make a bill even worse is to half-ass something in less than 2 weeks. Paul Ryan isn't off the hook here; Trump wanted a bill for the sake of a bill and Ryan just went along with it when the realities of Congress should have made it clear it was not going anywhere.

The Democrats look pretty good on this one TBH; it's hard to blame anything on them when the Republicans in both Congress and the White House don't bother to put any actual work into crafting a bill their own party can get on board with. The Senate escaped mostly unscathed, at least.

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"Hysterical children shrieking about right-wing anything need to go sit in the corner and be quiet while the adults are talking."

I still say the best thing to do is require all politicians use whatever healthcare system they put in place for the population.

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Darksiege: You are not a god damned vulcan homie.

Well, the overlords that felt we needed that turd-sandwich didn't feel they should have to eat it.

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The Dude abides.

This is totally true; however, the real painful part of this is that they had 7 YEARS.

It's not like Paul Ryan was just elected to Congress. So bad.

That is true. There should have been several bills and plans lined up and ready to go.

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"Hysterical children shrieking about right-wing anything need to go sit in the corner and be quiet while the adults are talking."

I'm sure they had a bill, but that bill was almost surely a full repeal, and thus worthless once Trump came out in favor of the pre existing condition provision.

I don't know how this plays out long term, the exchanges are not stable with the pre existing condition provision as the mandate simply isn't punitive enough to force healthy people into the exchanges. On the other hand, it would be grossly unfair to force the individual market (read: the working poor) to pay for their pre existing conditions while everyone else in the country remains protected from being discriminated against.

Trump made it fairly clear during the campaign that he was in favor of this provision; while it was unavoidable that you'd still have a "full repeal" crowd, there wasn't any excuse for not knowing he wanted that. He also made it clear he wanted to remove restrictions on crossing state lines, and this bill for some reason (likely that it was a half-assed thing they threw together in under 2 weeks) didn't even do that.



We continue with the status quo until either the overall debt renders it irrelevant because the government at large is in a financial crisis, or until all the people that right now don't get that "pre-existing condition" is costing them a lot of money, just like letting people buy fire insurance after their house burned down would drive their premiums up.

Obviously the situations are not precisely analogous, and I do think certain provisions ought to be made (not all pre-existing conditions are created equal), but if the goal is to get prices down, people are going to have to understand that they are going to have to pay something. Really, even the VA could benefit from this. One of the unspoken problems with the VA is a bounty of veterans with no skin in the game; there's a massive incentive to simply come to the VA and complain for the potential benefits. This creates enormous caseload. I'm sure it would be politically unpopular but if you charged veterans a $5 copay and just said "look, you show up it's $5 every time or you get turned away, period", and force them to mentally invest in the process.

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"Hysterical children shrieking about right-wing anything need to go sit in the corner and be quiet while the adults are talking."

This touches on what torques my crank ... you'd think that this is obvious. The left is all about fair and people having to pay their share, except for those that they think shouldn't. The majority of folks without health care are healthy. What's fair about giving them what is acknowledged to be a valuable benefit for nothing and handing the bill to someone else?

https://www.cato.org/publications/comme ... -uninsured

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In time, this too shall pass.

Well, the thing is that they're healthy until they aren't. Eventually everyone develops the health problems of age. Some of those people will discover they have health problems earlier - much earlier.

The thing is that suddenly people who didn't want to spend on health insurance don't understand why someone won't help them when they get sick - but more importantly, so do comfortable middle-class people who want to feel sympathetic, and who vote.

But those same sympathetic people don't want to get the bill. They want the "rich" to foot it.

It isn't just "I'm sick and someone else should pay for it". It's "that poor young woman who got cancer at 25 and doesn't have insurance.. why won't someone who makes more money than me pay for her?"

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"Hysterical children shrieking about right-wing anything need to go sit in the corner and be quiet while the adults are talking."

That's not the issue here. Employer sponsored group plans are not allowed to discriminate against pre existing conditions and this was true before Obamacare. And of course, Medicare and Medicaid don't discriminate either. That's about 5/6ths of the country right there already protected from discrimination. All Obamacare does is extend that right to the remaining 1/6th on the individual market. It is grossly unfair to declare that the working poor must pay for their poor health choices while nobody else is required to.

it's not a right, it's a luxury. Your use of the word "fair" suggests some sort of parity, and that's absolutely not what you get when you take value away from one to give to another without any obligation or expectation from the one you're giving to.

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In time, this too shall pass.

It's a right if the law makes it a right. "Rights" are purely legal constructs. There is no magical rights that all people are born with, no special place in the universe for humans that declares our rights. We humans made up the concept of rights, we define them, and we enforce them. You have whatever rights the law says you do. If you get rid of the first amendment to the US Constitution, you lose your right to freedom of religion and expression. If you add a law that gives you the right to pineapple ice cream before bed, then you have a right to pineapple ice cream before bed.

One can argue whether those rights make sense, are a good idea, or should be changed, certainly.

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Well Ali Baba had them forty thieves, Scheherezade had a thousand tales
But master you in luck 'cause up your sleeves you got a brand of magic never fails...
...Mister Aladdin, sir, What will your pleasure be?
Let me take your order, Jot it down -You ain't never had a friend like me
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Without Obamacare, that's already happening for 5/6ths of the country. Specifically telling the group of people who are fairly poor, have very limited options, and yet have decided to actually get jobs and not live off state assistance that they and ONLY them will be required to pay extra for their health choices is extraordinarily cruel. You're quite literally punishing them for working, when the choice to do so is already very much against their best interests much of the time. A family of four is actually financially better off not working at all than taking a $30k/year job that doesn't provide healthcare, Medicaid benefits for four people are worth more than $20k/year at this point and the remainder of state assistance easily covers that gap.