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Yay! More war!
https://gladerebooted.net/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=11872
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Author:  Müs [ Thu Apr 06, 2017 9:23 pm ]
Post subject:  Yay! More war!

Can we maybe wrap up the ones we're in before we start another one?

http://www.cnn.com/2017/04/06/politics/ ... index.html

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Author:  RangerDave [ Thu Apr 06, 2017 9:38 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Yay! More war!

It's absolutely in the US's core national interest to reinforce the international norm against the use of chemical weapons. We don't have to invade Syria over it, but we should absolutely be sending a message - to Syria, Iran, NK, and everyone else - that the use of chemical weapons will provoke a response.


Author:  Diamondeye [ Thu Apr 06, 2017 9:41 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Yay! More war!

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Really, we get it. You're a liberal now. Just shut the **** up.

Author:  Diamondeye [ Thu Apr 06, 2017 9:54 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Yay! More war!

RangerDave wrote:
It's absolutely in the US's core national interest to reinforce the international norm against the use of chemical weapons. We don't have to invade Syria over it, but we should absolutely be sending a message - to Syria, Iran, NK, and everyone else - that the use of chemical weapons will provoke a response.



Indeed this is a weapon even Hitler refused to employ.

Quote:
In mid-1939, the formula for the agent was passed to the chemical warfare section of the German Army Weapons Office, which ordered that it be brought into mass production for wartime use. Pilot plants were built, and a high-production facility was under construction (but was not finished) by the end of World War II. Estimates for total sarin production by Nazi Germany range from 500 kg to 10 tons.[40] Though sarin, tabun and soman were incorporated into artillery shells, Germany did not use nerve agents against Allied targets.


The Nazis wouldn't use this **** on the battlefield. This **** barbarian used it on unprotected women and children.

And this is AFTER it already happened once and we were assured that **** had given all his chemicals up to the Russians.

Author:  Elmarnieh [ Fri Apr 07, 2017 4:34 am ]
Post subject: 

Even assuming Assad used chemical weapons, in a war he was winning, that he knew would bring a strong international response, what business is it of ours?

This reeks of a CIA op.

Author:  Talya [ Fri Apr 07, 2017 6:28 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Yay! More war!

Mr. Assad has been pursuing this same strategy for years, pretty much since the unrest against him started, even before ISIS had a foothold in Syria.

This is the tactic:

"For any civillians outside our area of control, life will be as miserable and short as it is possible to make it. Nobody can protect you except us. Civillians inside our area of control are safe, but outside, your lives will be hell, until we put you out of your misery. Don't count on international law. Don't count on the U.N. America the great Satan cannot help you. We are either your salvation or your doom, the choice is yours."

The use of chemical weapons is a clear continuation of this tactic, and it's not even the first time they've done it over the last three years. It's just the first time we've been able to prove it, unequivocably.

It is not in America's interests for it to be true. It is not a CIA op -- It would be much easier for the US if Mr. Assad were a responsible international citizen and a reliable leader. As it stands, there's no good outcome here. We cannot let Assad rule Syria, and we cannot let ISIS topple him.

But the US Government here has made the only choice it could without opening the door to utter chaos everywhere in the world: The use of chemical weapons CANNOT be tolerated without punitive measures. America doesn't have to invade and actively work toward toppling Assad, but they can damn well make sure that the use of such weapons costs far more than any benefits it gives. At the very least this sets the example for other would be despots: There is no benefit to breaking international law. Using prohibited weapons that intentionally target civillians will cost you.

Dearly.

Author:  RangerDave [ Fri Apr 07, 2017 7:33 am ]
Post subject:  Re:

Elmarnieh wrote:
This reeks of a CIA op.

Just to be clear, you think it's reasonably likely that the CIA launched a covert chemical weapons strike against a civilian medical facility in order to frame the Syrian government for it and thus justify further US intervention? And, given the choice between that scenario and a scenario in which the Assad regime is responsible - a regime which unquestionably targets civilians and medical facilities on a regular basis, has tortured tens of thousands of its own citizens to death, and otherwise flagrantly violates every rule of war there is - you suspect the CIA scenario is the right one?

Author:  Talya [ Fri Apr 07, 2017 7:39 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Re:

RangerDave wrote:
Elmarnieh wrote:
This reeks of a CIA op.

Just to be clear, you think it's reasonably likely that the CIA launched a covert chemical weapons strike against a civilian medical facility in order to frame the Syrian government for it and thus justify further US intervention? And, given the choice between that scenario and a scenario in which the Assad regime is responsible - a regime which unquestionably targets civilians and medical facilities on a regular basis, has tortured tens of thousands of its own citizens to death, and otherwise flagrantly violates every rule of war there is - you suspect the CIA scenario is the right one?


Don't forget that this whole scenario only benefits ISIS now. I'm sure that's high on the CIA's list of important tasks: propping up an extremely anti-western militant apocalyptic Islamic theocracy, right? Very plausible.

And I have a bridge to sell Elmo.

Author:  Diamondeye [ Fri Apr 07, 2017 7:44 am ]
Post subject:  Re:

Elmarnieh wrote:
Even assuming Assad used chemical weapons, in a war he was winning, that he knew would bring a strong international response, what business is it of ours?

This reeks of a CIA op.


Your post reeks of "I am a moron on the level of Alex Jones".

The CIA does not keep a fleet of Russian-built military aircraft, pilots to fly them, mechanics to maintain them, and Sarin gas around on the off chance they might need to gas civilians just so the President can fire a few dozen Tomahawks.

Author:  Müs [ Fri Apr 07, 2017 10:57 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Yay! More war!

Diamondeye wrote:
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Really, we get it. You're a liberal now. Just shut the **** up.


Really, we get it. You gargle Trump's balls. Just shut the **** up.

We have no business in Syria. Haven't for years. You wanna talk about the "Beautiful Babies"... maybe we should have worked on letting some of those refugees in.

Oh wait... that's because before they're dead, they're "potential terrorists".

Author:  Müs [ Fri Apr 07, 2017 11:03 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Yay! More war!

Diamondeye wrote:
we were assured that **** had given all his chemicals up to the Russians.


Huh. Imagine that. The Russians aren't trustworthy.

That sounds like a lesson the idiot in chief should learn.

Or maybe they are trustworthy, and they're right about Assad not doing this. I wonder... where was ISIS that night? You don't think they'd have anything to gain by sparking a fight between Assad and Russia and the US?

Nah, just launch a bunch of missiles and blow up a few planes. That'll send a message right?

Author:  Diamondeye [ Fri Apr 07, 2017 11:06 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Yay! More war!

Müs wrote:
Really, we get it. You gargle Trump's balls. Just shut the **** up.


Trump isn't the issue here. Your problem with this results from you not liking Trump, and from your ongoing desire to prove to yourself that you really are a true believer in your new faith.

Quote:
We have no business in Syria. Haven't for years. You wanna talk about the "Beautiful Babies"... maybe we should have worked on letting some of those refugees in.


These people weren't refugees. They haven't even left Syria. You are truly plumbing the depths of irrelevancy in your quest to join the "no one but America is ever responsible for anything" club.

We do, however, have business discouraging the use of chemical weapons at any time and for any reason. Trump made it clear he wasn't even interested in Syria just days before - and what does Assad do? Gasses women and children, after Obama supposedly cut a swell deal so this would never happen... again.

Quote:
Oh wait... that's because before they're dead, they're "potential terrorists".


They are, indeed, potential terrorists. You don't care about these people a bit; you care about using them to criticize the President. You have no concern whatsoever for the fact that they were attacked with gas as if they were cockroaches, you just want an excuse to crow and virtue signal.

Author:  Diamondeye [ Fri Apr 07, 2017 11:24 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Yay! More war!

Müs wrote:
Diamondeye wrote:
we were assured that **** had given all his chemicals up to the Russians.


Huh. Imagine that. The Russians aren't trustworthy.

That sounds like a lesson the idiot in chief should learn.


Obama isn't in office anymore. He's the one who made the deal in question, so he's the only idiot in chief you could possibly be referring to.

Quote:
Or maybe they are trustworthy, and they're right about Assad not doing this. I wonder... where was ISIS that night? You don't think they'd have anything to gain by sparking a fight between Assad and Russia and the US?


Probably they were sitting around wishing they had aircraft to deliver chemicals with, and even a sliver of hope of not getting shot down by vastly superior enemy air forces.

This attack happened in rebel-held territory of the Idib province, which is completely surrounded by Syrian government held territory. ISIS has no weapons with the range to reach this area. Their paltry artillery capability does not include any weapons with that long of a range.

Quote:
Nah, just launch a bunch of missiles and blow up a few planes. That'll send a message right?


When Assad has a limited number of aircraft with which to deliver chemical weapons and you blow up a considerable number of them, plus his fueling facilities and damage his runways, that degrades his physical ability to conduct such attacks in the future.

Because loss of aircraft degrades the ability to conduct future air attacks, idiot. Maybe if you just snark off more that will start masking the fact that you're just grasping at straws to be mad at Trump.

Author:  Arathain Kelvar [ Fri Apr 07, 2017 11:28 am ]
Post subject: 

IMO we should have taken a shot at Assad.

**** him and the camel he rode in on.

Author:  Screeling [ Fri Apr 07, 2017 11:37 am ]
Post subject:  Re:

Arathain Kelvar wrote:
IMO we should have taken a shot at Assad.

**** him and the camel he rode in on.

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Author:  Talya [ Fri Apr 07, 2017 12:05 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Yay! More war!

Diamondeye wrote:
They are, indeed, potential terrorists.


Well, not anymore.

(that was a bit dark. Damn.)

Author:  Talya [ Fri Apr 07, 2017 12:06 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Re:

Screeling wrote:
Arathain Kelvar wrote:
IMO we should have taken a shot at Assad.

**** him and the camel he rode in on.

Image


That .gif is so full of evil racist win.

Author:  Xequecal [ Fri Apr 07, 2017 12:44 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Yay! More war!

Yeah, I'm another liberal voice here and I can't really get how people can be so incensed over the firing of a few dozen cruise missiles in response to gassing civilians.

Author:  Talya [ Fri Apr 07, 2017 1:01 pm ]
Post subject: 

I will actually say I consider this response to be weak.

There should have been another dozen cruise missiles launched at the Presidential Palace in Damascus.

I'd suggest Trudeau order it, but I don't think we have cruise missiles, let alone ships in the region.

Author:  Serienya [ Fri Apr 07, 2017 1:06 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Yay! More war!

Müs wrote:
Diamondeye wrote:
we were assured that **** had given all his chemicals up to the Russians.


Huh. Imagine that. The Russians aren't trustworthy.



Or they just made more. It doesn't take much to make sarin. The problem is stabilizing it because it has a short shelf life.

Author:  Corolinth [ Fri Apr 07, 2017 1:26 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Yay! More war!

The main obstacle to productive discourse here is that the worst things Arafys and Diamondeye have to say about each other are all true.

Author:  RangerDave [ Fri Apr 07, 2017 1:44 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Yay! More war!

Corolinth wrote:
The main obstacle to productive discourse here is that the worst things Arafys and Diamondeye have to say about each other are all true.

Wow, I had forgotten that Mus used to be Arafys!

Author:  Diamondeye [ Fri Apr 07, 2017 2:18 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Yay! More war!

Corolinth wrote:
The main obstacle to productive discourse here is that the worst things Arafys and Diamondeye have to say about each other are all true.


I wouldn't have to defend Trump so frequently if the criticisms themselves weren't so frequently far more ridiculous than Trump himself. Not to mention this false equivalence you're drawing. When one guy gasses civilians and another guy blows up the first guy's jets, the facts are definitely on the side of the person pointing out that the real bad guy is the one gassing civilians.

Author:  Diamondeye [ Fri Apr 07, 2017 2:41 pm ]
Post subject:  Re:

Talya wrote:
I will actually say I consider this response to be weak.

There should have been another dozen cruise missiles launched at the Presidential Palace in Damascus.

I'd suggest Trudeau order it, but I don't think we have cruise missiles, let alone ships in the region.


Lobby to buy some - including ships large enough to carry them. We can all do our part.

Author:  RangerDave [ Fri Apr 07, 2017 2:50 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Re:

Diamondeye wrote:
Lobby to buy some - including ships large enough to carry them. We can all do our part.



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