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MORE Acorn fun and games-
https://gladerebooted.net/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=120		 Page 1 of 6
Author:  Hannibal [ Fri Sep 11, 2009 9:49 am ]
Post subject:  MORE Acorn fun and games-
Will they be mad that it's ACORN again, or that FoxNews did it to them?


http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,549001,00.html

The community organizing group ACORN has fired two employees at its Baltimore office who were seen on hidden-camera video giving advice to a man posing as a pimp and a woman pretending to be a prostitute, as some legal experts raise questions over whether the employees broke the law.

In the video made public Thursday, two visitors to an ACORN office in Baltimore told staffers they needed assistance securing housing where the woman, a 20-year-old who called herself "Kenya," could continue to run her prostitution business.

An ACORN official told the couple how to falsify tax forms and seek illegal benefits for 13 "very young" girls from El Salvador that they said they wanted to import as prostitutes.

On Thursday night, the two employees were fired. But legal experts say their next stop could be a courtroom.

Though no tax forms were filed and the child prostitutes didn't exist, at least one ACORN official engaged in "numerous acts of criminal facilitation," said Judge Andrew Napolitano, FOX News senior judicial analyst.

• STORY: ACORN Officials Videotaped Telling 'Pimp,' 'Prostitute' How to Lie to IRS

"Criminal facilitation occurs whenever a person encourages, enables, entices, or explains to another how to commit crimes with the real purpose of helping that person to commit those crimes" — a violation the ACORN employee "committed in full," he said.

Napolitano said the worker could also face charges for criminal conspiracy, though each charge would require a heavier burden to prove: a so-called "act of furtherance" — a concrete move that makes the conspiracy active.

Napolitano outlined eight crimes the ACORN worker could potentially have committed that could bring a total sentence of 24 years in prison, including criminal facilitation and conspiracy to:

• (a) commit prostitution

• (b) operate a prostitution ring

• (c) file false documents with taxing and other government authorities

• (d) file false documents with a bank [also known as bank fraud]

Related StoriesACORN Officials Videotaped Telling 'Pimp,' 'Prostitute' How to Lie to IRS
• (e) violate numerous immigration laws

• (f) transport children into the U.S. for immoral purposes

• (g) transport women into the U.S. for immoral purposes [also known as violating the Mann Act]

• (h) impair the welfare of minors.

But not all legal experts agreed that ACORN had committed a crime. Trial attorney Lee Armstong said that the employee had engaged in "repulsive ... disgusting behavior," but nothing illegal occurred because the entire scenario was a sham.

"For aiding and abetting tax evasion, for aiding and abetting child prostitution ... you need the actual crime," said Armstrong, an attorney for Jones Day in New York. "That's what's missing here."

Armstrong said that the videotape appeared to show the ACORN official hatching a conspiracy, but no violation occurred because the 25-year-old filmmaker was only "pretending" to be a 25-year-old pimp.

"You need an actual agreement between two people to commit a crime. If one person is just faking it, you don't have a meeting of the minds, you don't have a conspiracy," Armstrong told FOX News. "How do you clap with one hand?"

ACORN — the Association of Community Organizations for Reform Now — calls itself a network of families "working together for social justice and stronger communities," according to its Web site.

But the organization has been accused by conservatives and Republicans of committing fraud in voter registration drives around the country, and reaction to the videotape came swiftly after its release on Thursday.

"Taxpayers should be outraged that their money has gone to an organization that, in addition to facing charges of voter fraud and tax violations, is willing to facilitate prostitution," said Rep. Steve King, R-Iowa.

"As this video confirms, ACORN continues to operate as a criminal enterprise."

In a selection from the video, ACORN officials treated the "pimp's" illegal schemes with nonchalance and offered to help further what they knew to be crimes.

"It's illegal. So I am not hearing this, I am not hearing this," said an ACORN staffer who identified herself as an accountant. "You talk too much. Don't give up no information you're not asked."

Because the group receives millions of dollars in federal grants, Napolitano said, "ACORN agents and employees are required by law to adhere to high standards of lawful and ethical behavior; standards akin to those required by law of federal employees."

ACORN suggested a plan of action for the purported pimp and prostitute, but did not fill out tax forms with any false information. But because the official sought a $50 fee for ACORN's services, a conspiracy charge could still be considered, a defense attorney told FOX News.

"Conspiracy requires an agreement to do something unlawful and an act in furtherance," said Mark Eiglarsh, a New York-based attorney. "There's an agreement to assist in creating the brothel, in tax evasion, a number of other offenses."

The act in furtherance, he suggested, could be the staffer's seeking payment for the work. "I think that a prosecutor ... would agree to go forward on a conspiracy count," he said.

Whether or not prosecutors charge any ACORN officials in Baltimore, the filmmaker himself could be in hot water.

A Maryland state statute requires consent from all parties whenever a conversation is taped, according to the Reporters Committee for Freedom of the Press. Violations of the law are punishable by a maximum of five years in jail and a fine up to $10,000.

But that statute does not apply to videotape recordings — only to phone calls or other electronic "communications," Napolitano argued — meaning the filmmaker is likely in the clear.
Author:  Nitefox [ Fri Sep 11, 2009 10:44 am ]
Post subject: 
I saw the video's the other day. This is the group Obama loves? Fits.
Author:  Jocificus [ Fri Sep 11, 2009 2:08 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: MORE Acorn fun and games-
Heh, and a new one comes out from the same people with Acorn employees advising them on how to lie on their housing loan.

These two videos alone should be enough to remove any credibility they have, but unfortunately that won't happen. Not to mention the other objectional things that they have done. How anyone allows their name to be associated with them at this point is beyond me.
Author:  Screeling [ Fri Sep 11, 2009 2:42 pm ]
Post subject: 
Manufactured by the angry right wing extremists.
Author:  Telumehtar [ Fri Sep 11, 2009 3:55 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: MORE Acorn fun and games-
Heh, and a new one comes out with a Republican Assemblyman bragging about his sexual conquests with women other than his wife.

This video should be enough to remove any credibility Republicans have, but unfortunately that won't happen. Not to mention the other objectional things that they have done. How anyone allows their name to be associated with them at this point is beyond me.
Author:  Telumehtar [ Fri Sep 11, 2009 3:59 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: MORE Acorn fun and games-
Heh, and a new one comes out with Army recruiters advising students on how to lie on their enlistment papers.

These two videos alone should be enough to remove any credibility they have, but unfortunately that won't happen. Not to mention the other objectional things that they have done. How anyone allows their name to be associated with them at this point is beyond me.
Author:  Hannibal [ Fri Sep 11, 2009 4:04 pm ]
Post subject: 
I agree, so just like the Republican Assemblyman, ACORN should step down and stop all activities.

Just like the recruiters, ACORN should suspend all activities until they can certifiy ALL their employees are trained correctly.

Next?
Author:  Screeling [ Fri Sep 11, 2009 4:06 pm ]
Post subject: 
Both sides of the aisle have issues with marital fidelity.

The army isn't a partisan group being given special responsibilities by the President.
Author:  Jocificus [ Fri Sep 11, 2009 4:18 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: MORE Acorn fun and games-
Telumehtar wrote:
Heh, and a new one comes out with a Republican Assemblyman bragging about his sexual conquests with women other than his wife.

This video should be enough to remove any credibility Republicans have, but unfortunately that won't happen. Not to mention the other objectional things that they have done. How anyone allows their name to be associated with them at this point is beyond me.


I see what you did there.

Care to show my where I may have indicated or said that it was alright for the republican state senator to not only cheat on his wife, but brag about it? No?

Oh that's right. You're just going into attack mode because... well.. I have no idea why. I find the actions of the senator to be deplorable, and am glad he resigned. If only other people with similar issues would have done the same.

If you can't remain faithful to your wife, I find it hard to believe you can stay faithful to your constituents.

That being said, if you're going to apply the actions of this senator to the entire republican party, you'll have to do the same for the democrats. Which means the credibility of both parties would be completely gone. And as I feel that's already the case, that's fine by me!
Author:  Elmarnieh [ Fri Sep 11, 2009 4:33 pm ]
Post subject: 
Hey maybe we have a replacement for Monte.
Author:  Müs [ Fri Sep 11, 2009 4:40 pm ]
Post subject:  Re:
Elmarnieh wrote:
Hey maybe we have a replacement for Monte.


Nah. Telu can be rational at times. And I've seen well reasoned arguments from him too.
Author:  Vindicarre [ Fri Sep 11, 2009 5:14 pm ]
Post subject: 
Aaaaaaannnnnd...

This just in: The Census Bureau cuts all ties to ACORN. News at 11.
Author:  Müs [ Fri Sep 11, 2009 5:49 pm ]
Post subject: 
Hasta la Vista *****.
Author:  Screeling [ Fri Sep 11, 2009 6:09 pm ]
Post subject: 
Freakin finally.
Author:  Raziel6K [ Fri Sep 11, 2009 6:35 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: MORE Acorn fun and games-
So we are now holding entire organizations/groups responsible for the actions of a singular employee? This country would shut down overnight if this were to be universally applied!

Every organization has bad seeds, especially the bigger they get.
Author:  Elmarnieh [ Fri Sep 11, 2009 6:37 pm ]
Post subject: 
This many revelations of actions doesn't in any way to you show a systematic problem within the organization?
Author:  Raziel6K [ Fri Sep 11, 2009 6:41 pm ]
Post subject:  Re:
Elmarnieh wrote:
This many revelations of actions doesn't in any way to you show a systematic problem within the organization?


How many government officials have had conspiracies/resigned in the last few months for revelations of actions? Does this illustrate a systematic problem with our government?
Author:  Raltar [ Fri Sep 11, 2009 6:43 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Re:
Raziel6K wrote:
Elmarnieh wrote:
This many revelations of actions doesn't in any way to you show a systematic problem within the organization?


How many government officials have had conspiracies/resigned in the last few months for revelations of actions? Does this illustrate a systematic problem with our government?


Did you really just ask Elmo that question?
Author:  Elmarnieh [ Fri Sep 11, 2009 6:45 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Re:
Raziel6K wrote:
Elmarnieh wrote:
This many revelations of actions doesn't in any way to you show a systematic problem within the organization?


How many government officials have had conspiracies/resigned in the last few months for revelations of actions? Does this illustrate a systematic problem with our government?



Many. Yes it does.
Author:  Hannibal [ Fri Sep 11, 2009 6:47 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Re:
Raltar wrote:
Raziel6K wrote:
Elmarnieh wrote:
This many revelations of actions doesn't in any way to you show a systematic problem within the organization?


How many government officials have had conspiracies/resigned in the last few months for revelations of actions? Does this illustrate a systematic problem with our government?


Did you really just ask Elmo that question?


It's ok, it's the FNG. ;)
Author:  Raziel6K [ Fri Sep 11, 2009 6:48 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: MORE Acorn fun and games-
Raltar wrote:
Did you really just ask Elmo that question?


It's all good, I brought popcorn!

/willing to share

Elmarnieh wrote:
Many. Yes it does.


Honestly I can see your point, but I'm at a loss for an efficient replacement government to suggest to the American people.
Author:  Elmarnieh [ Fri Sep 11, 2009 6:51 pm ]
Post subject: 
The failure of our government can be stratified into two failures:
1. The failure of our originating law to securely hold the government to bounds stated in it.
2. The failure of the people to hold government to those bounds and undertake corrective action.

Both can be addressed by a replacement government.
Author:  Raziel6K [ Fri Sep 11, 2009 6:56 pm ]
Post subject:  Re:
Elmarnieh wrote:
The failure of our government can be stratified into two failures:
1. The failure of our originating law to securely hold the government to bounds stated in it.
2. The failure of the people to hold government to those bounds and undertake corrective action.

Both can be addressed by a replacement government.


Might I also add the ability for rapid change in accordance with popular opinion as opposed to long term greater good?

(i.e. overwriting of the various amendments via things like the patriot act)
Author:  Elmarnieh [ Fri Sep 11, 2009 6:57 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Re:
Raziel6K wrote:
Elmarnieh wrote:
The failure of our government can be stratified into two failures:
1. The failure of our originating law to securely hold the government to bounds stated in it.
2. The failure of the people to hold government to those bounds and undertake corrective action.

Both can be addressed by a replacement government.


Might I also add the ability for rapid change in accordance with popular opinion as opposed to long term greater good?

(i.e. overwriting of the various amendments via things like the patriot act)


I beleive that would be encompassed by 1. above. The patriot act was power above the limits authorized by the Constitution.
Author:  Raziel6K [ Fri Sep 11, 2009 7:02 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Re:
Elmarnieh wrote:
Raziel6K wrote:
Elmarnieh wrote:
The failure of our government can be stratified into two failures:
1. The failure of our originating law to securely hold the government to bounds stated in it.
2. The failure of the people to hold government to those bounds and undertake corrective action.

Both can be addressed by a replacement government.


Might I also add the ability for rapid change in accordance with popular opinion as opposed to long term greater good?

(i.e. overwriting of the various amendments via things like the patriot act)


I beleive that would be encompassed by 1. above. The patriot act was power above the limits authorized by the Constitution.


Excellent point, I'll concede that.
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