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| Because this will end up here even if I posted it in Sports. https://gladerebooted.net/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=131 |
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| Author: | Ladas [ Fri Sep 11, 2009 2:38 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Because this will end up here even if I posted it in Sports. |
Female athlete is really a hermaphrodite All kinds of issues stemming from this. Thoughts? |
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| Author: | darksiege [ Fri Sep 11, 2009 2:38 pm ] |
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hehe.. you said stem in a thread about a hermaphrodite... |
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| Author: | Vindicarre [ Fri Sep 11, 2009 2:41 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
Of course it belongs here this will lead to war...or something. CNN.com wrote: South Africa will fight back if Semenya is excluded from further competition, Stofile said, adding, "It will be a third world war."
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| Author: | Müs [ Fri Sep 11, 2009 2:48 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: |
Vindicarre wrote: Of course it belongs here this will lead to war...or something. CNN.com wrote: South Africa will fight back if Semenya is excluded from further competition, Stofile said, adding, "It will be a third world war." But we don't have any Archdukes for you to assassinate... |
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| Author: | Vindicarre [ Fri Sep 11, 2009 2:54 pm ] |
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Au contraire, mon frère: Prince Lorenz of Belgium, Archduke of Austria-Este Hope his bodyguard is up to snuff, and he stays out of Sarajevo. |
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| Author: | Raltar [ Fri Sep 11, 2009 3:29 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
That's kind of an interesting story. Though, that guy promising World War Three needs to be punched in the face. |
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| Author: | LadyKate [ Fri Sep 11, 2009 3:34 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Because this will end up here even if I posted it in Sports. |
I remember reading an article when they had ordered the testing. (I actually printed a copy and put it on one of my coworkers desks as a joke since he is always getting the "is it a ma'am or a sir? clients.) She has no control over whether or not she was born with a pair of undescended testes instead of ovaries; she hasn't cheated. Unless we have some clearly defined guidelines about "no hermaphrodites in sports" then I don't see what the issue is. |
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| Author: | Raltar [ Fri Sep 11, 2009 3:44 pm ] |
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I guess it would really depend on if she knew or not. If she knew and concealed it, it might be a problem. But if she didn't know, then there's nothing she could have done about it and should not be penalized. Then, they need to make rules for this in the future so it doesn't always turn into a giant ****, where people stand around finger **** their assholes because they don't know what to do about it. How much of an advantage did those testicles give her, anyway? I'd imagine that they didn't give that much of an advantage, but I could be wrong. |
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| Author: | Vindicarre [ Fri Sep 11, 2009 3:57 pm ] |
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I believe the whole idea is to keep the advantages out. When getting a blood transfusion is banned, when getting testosterone injections is banned; there might be problems with this issue. That said, don't penalize the person, just say: "Sorry, go run with the men." 
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| Author: | Uinan [ Fri Sep 11, 2009 4:00 pm ] |
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I think some people's issues come from those testicles producing testosterone, that the other female's can't match in level, without cheating. Wasn't there another female sprinter awhile ago who got busted for having too much testosterone in her system? I'm not sure if it's right or wrong, but I think that's one of the bigger issues people are complaining about. |
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| Author: | Hannibal [ Fri Sep 11, 2009 4:07 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: |
Raltar wrote: How much of an advantage did those testicles give her, anyway? I'd imagine that they didn't give that much of an advantage, but I could be wrong. New meaning to the term High Speed Low Drag 
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| Author: | Aethien [ Fri Sep 11, 2009 4:27 pm ] |
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I think there are rules about no hermaphrodites, LK. I think there was one in the 1930s, and once they got good testing, they took away her/his medals. It does give that person certain physical advantages over other women. OK, I take that back, they didn't discover that Stanislawa Walasiewicz had male, or perhaps "ambiguous", genitalia, until she was shot to death in Cleveland in 1980, and didn't take back her medals ('32 and '36 Olympics). Fascinating story. |
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| Author: | Aizle [ Fri Sep 11, 2009 4:28 pm ] |
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I feel really sorry for her and what has to be an amazingly uncomfortable and embarrassing situation. Seems to me that you go off her birth certificate for gender and then test for drugs. |
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| Author: | LadyKate [ Fri Sep 11, 2009 4:31 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: |
Aethien wrote: I think there are rules about no hermaphrodites, LK. I think there was one in the 1930s, and once they got good testing, they took away her/his medals. It does give that person certain physical advantages over other women. Really? Huh. I would have thought this was the first time that something like this had ever happened. She didn't look like she had that much physical advantage over other women that I've seen compete... is testoserone really that awesome?? |
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| Author: | Müs [ Fri Sep 11, 2009 4:33 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Re: |
LadyKate wrote: is testoserone really that awesome?? In a word? Yes. Especially if its naturally produced, and the body is used to the natural amounts in it. |
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| Author: | Vindicarre [ Fri Sep 11, 2009 4:57 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Re: |
LadyKate wrote: She didn't look like she had that much physical advantage over other women that I've seen compete... is testoserone really that awesome?? With all due respect, have you seen her race? In an arena where races are won and records are broken by tenths and hundredths of a second, a record beaten by nearly two seconds is huge. Here's the race. |
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| Author: | Corolinth [ Fri Sep 11, 2009 8:31 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Re: |
LadyKate wrote: Really? Huh. I would have thought this was the first time that something like this had ever happened. Yes. Testosterone is the primary reason why men are larger and stronger than women. Furthermore, it makes us more aggressive, which can easily tip the scales in a physical contest.
She didn't look like she had that much physical advantage over other women that I've seen compete... is testoserone really that awesome?? |
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| Author: | LadyKate [ Sat Sep 12, 2009 8:22 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Because this will end up here even if I posted it in Sports. |
Ok wow. I watched the video, Vin. She didn't even look like she broke a sweat. And at the end there...I see your point. |
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| Author: | Mookhow [ Sat Sep 12, 2009 8:33 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Because this will end up here even if I posted it in Sports. |
LadyKate wrote: Ok wow. I watched the video, Vin. She didn't even look like she broke a sweat. And at the end there...I see your point. Was it as lopsided as Usain Bolt? |
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| Author: | Rorinthas [ Sat Sep 12, 2009 9:35 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Because this will end up here even if I posted it in Sports. |
That's kind of a difficult situation. I don't think she (i'll use she because she identifies herself as such) should be reprimanded for what she did in ignorance, if she did it so. Sorry go run with the boys seems like the correct answer, though I don't know how comfortable she'd be with that if she identifies herself as a woman. |
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| Author: | Corolinth [ Sat Sep 12, 2009 12:15 pm ] |
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I wouldn't be surprised if she didn't even know herself. The unfortunate part is that if she were running with the men, she might not be competitive. |
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| Author: | Raltar [ Sat Sep 12, 2009 12:19 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: |
Corolinth wrote: I wouldn't be surprised if she didn't even know herself. The unfortunate part is that if she were running with the men, she might not be competitive. And it's even more **** up that if she stays with the women, she apparently has a vast chemical advantage over them. So, I don't think she can stay with the women, but putting her with the men won't be right, either. So, either they make a new category or she doesn't get to compete anymore. |
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| Author: | Rafael [ Sat Sep 12, 2009 2:01 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Re: |
Corolinth wrote: Yes. Testosterone is the primary reason why men are larger and stronger than women. Furthermore, it makes us more aggressive, which can easily tip the scales in a physical contest. To me, this whole issues ties back into doping and interpretation of what is considered naturally clearly delineated boundaries. Men and women compete separately in most sports. Steroids are not legal under nearly every sanctioning sports body, yet the mechanism by which they work is elevating normal body functions. In fact, androgenic steroids would have similar effects to the woman's body as this Semenya's elevated male hormones had to her. Remember when Big Mack and Sosa were trying to break the single season HR record and people were ***** about use of synthetic Creatine? Most sports sanctioning bodies don't have a problem with it from a doping perspective nowadays, only high school athletics typically ban it due to potential adverse health problems (most of which have been proven to be false when used correctly). Yet it similarly is just elevating the level of a specific substance the body already produces. The strength gains by training with can be tremendous. A guy from my high school who ran track and xc who rain in Beijing in 2008 is participating in Nike's Oregon Project. You can google it, but the short of it is it's a oxygen deprivation training technique where they live in an oxygen reduced environment but train at sea level. Since traveling to train at sea level then living at elevation is logistically unfeasible, the house is used instead. It has been coming under criticism as doping by the international running community. But if they really flew back and forth every day, would they consider this doping? What about whey protein? Almost everyone who lifts weights, whether for sports, mass gains or whatever uses it, including myself. Is it doping? Eating a healthy diet? Getting proper sleep? Training too hard? It seems as though almost everything can be considered doping based solely if it's a new technique and causes controversy versus analysis of the actual mechanism. I suppose if use of androgenic steroids is not legal, then Semenya should not be allowed to compete with women. That is one perspective. But then again, she produces the elevated male-level hormones without "aid". Should this classify her as a man then? Should other women get to dope up their hormone levels? If so, should anabolic steroids be legal in all sports to give naturally less "intense" competitors an even playing field. Why do we watch competitive sports? Most sports lend themselves to a certain physique, but you sometimes see athletes outside this template excel (Nate Robinson for the NY Knicks for example). Should substances be part of leveling this playing field? Are watching sports to see the greatest competitors or the greatest competition? |
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| Author: | Rorinthas [ Sat Sep 12, 2009 11:30 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Because this will end up here even if I posted it in Sports. |
It's just like the big debate over what's his face's swimsuit. Did it give him an edge that other people before him didn't have or are purists just arguing over semantics and being poor sports? |
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| Author: | Lex Luthor [ Sun Sep 13, 2009 12:38 am ] |
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They should ban her. It's not fair to the women who compete. |
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