The Glade 4.0

I think they should make a law that severely punishes parents who smoke in their house or their car if they have children or if they allow other people to smoke in their car or their house when children are present.
I was stupid when I was in my early 20s and smoked in the house and in the car when my son was little. (I quit smoking in the house when he was 3 and came home from pre-school with a smoke-free-home pledge for me to sign.)
The damage was done though and he gets bronchitis easily and every time he gets a cold and coughs, I feel bad. Plus, he comes back from his dads house every other weekend coughing and reeking of smoke.


Maybe if someone had fined me or made me spend a couple of days in jail a few years ago I would have realized just how serious it was.

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"Therefore do not worry about tomorrow, for tomorrow will worry about itself. Each day has enough trouble of its own." Jesus of Nazareth

I believe they recently passed a law here doing just that. Don't think there was jail time involved, just a fine.

Personally if there's anything that'll make me stop for good, it'll be to get knocked up.

I wish they would do that here, but I don't think it will ever happen. Americans get too caught up sometimes in our "rights" to a certain freedom to think about the harm it may be causing.



Yup! That'll do it!
Of course, the trick is to not start back up again after the baby is born.

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"Therefore do not worry about tomorrow, for tomorrow will worry about itself. Each day has enough trouble of its own." Jesus of Nazareth

well you can still do it outside of the house, you just get in trouble if it's inside. We already suck it up and can't smoke anywhere with a roof so this is only a tad more annoying.



only problem with that is one usually require 2 donors for such an operation. I have problems finding a suitable 2nd donor with enough intellegence and commitment to fit the bill. So until such time, I'll stick with my 3 a day policy =P

edit. just to clarify, 3 ciggies a day, not 3 donor application reviews a day >.<

Meh, I have a jihad going against all smoking anyway. Around kids? Anything I say on this is going to be fanatical.

Smoking around kids is a horrifically bad idea. Find a new home for them with nonsmoking parents who will love the kids more than your asswipe smoking self does. Then commit yourself to a mental hospital for endangering your kids lives.

See, I'm a real jerk on the topic.

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The U. S. Constitution doesn't guarantee happiness, only the pursuit of it. You have to catch up with it yourself. B. Franklin

"A mind needs books like a sword needs a whetstone." -- Tyrion Lannister, A Game of Thrones

We can't get people to smoke away from the hospital, they are absoulty certain they have a right to just because they are "outside" how are you going to make them not smoke in cars/vehicles they pay to use/own.

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I prefer to think of them as "Fighting evil in another dimension"

We've had this discussion before, and I seem to remember people being very...vehement about their "right" to pollute the air of their children in their homes and automobiles. I expect the same thing here, but I will go on record as saying I fully agree with penalizing someone who forces his or her child to imbibe such dangerous filth.

I believe people have a right to smoke. I do not believe they have right to force it on anyone else who wishes not to breathe it.

/inc arguments equating smoking around kids to breathing automobile fumes, eating fatty foods, etc...

It's a direct correlation. Should parents who feed unhealthy diets to their children also be criminally penalized?

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“The duty of a patriot is to protect his country from its government.” - Thomas Paine

Only in the way that supporting drunk driving laws has a direct correlation to teetotalism.

They're related, and strongly, yes.

Done evading the question?

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“The duty of a patriot is to protect his country from its government.” - Thomas Paine

It's a false equation. Fatty foods have some value, and only when taken to the extreme do they have a negative effect on the body. Second-hand smoke has no value, is always detrimental, and has no positive effects.

And that's not even delving into the choice of a child to eat certain foods vs. being forced to breathe cigarette smoke. Having a "no-smoking" section of a building is like having a "no-peeing" section of a pool.

Also, fatty foods are not illegal. Minors smoking cigarettes are illegal....shouldn't second hand smoke be too?

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"Therefore do not worry about tomorrow, for tomorrow will worry about itself. Each day has enough trouble of its own." Jesus of Nazareth

Yet.

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"Dress cops up as soldiers, give them military equipment, train them in military tactics, tell them they’re fighting a ‘war,’ and the consequences are predictable." —Radley Balko

False.



True, false, true.




Irrelevant.

We're not talking about public areas with no smoking sections, we're talking about criminal penalties for parents who smoke around their children.

Since CPS would remove those children from those parents, you're effectively advocating removing the children from those homes. I know which is more detrimental to children. Apparently you don't.

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“The duty of a patriot is to protect his country from its government.” - Thomas Paine

Ok, DFK how can you just spout off true and false without saying why?

And who said anything about CPS removing children from their homes? Parents get DUIs and don't have their children removed. I don't see how you could jump to the conclusion that if there where penalties for smoking around your kids that they would automatically be removed from the home.

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"Therefore do not worry about tomorrow, for tomorrow will worry about itself. Each day has enough trouble of its own." Jesus of Nazareth

Was the child in the car when the DUI occurred?

CPS tends to become involved when the parents are committing crimes that endanger the children directly.

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"Aaaah! Emotions are weird!" - Amdee
"... Mirrorshades prevent the forces of normalcy from realizing that one is crazed and possibly dangerous. They are the symbol of the sun-staring visionary, the biker, the rocker, the policeman, and similar outlaws." - Bruce Sterling, preface to Mirrorshades

Yes the child was in the car at the time. It was a dad with visitation rights, not full custody so that may be why. They didn't take away his visitation rights as far as I know.

I don't see why there can't be a penalty for smoking around your kids without taking away custody.

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"Therefore do not worry about tomorrow, for tomorrow will worry about itself. Each day has enough trouble of its own." Jesus of Nazareth

That's because children are just being used as a smokescreen. The people who cry most fervently for us to think of the children don't really care about them except as puppets to tug at the heartstrings of naive adults in order to get laws passed. As for laws penalizing people for smoking, those are simply the last resort for anti-smoking jihadists. It is not enough to persuade the majority of Americans that smoking is bad for your health. They are so self-righteous that they can't comprehend how a free-willed autonomous human being would make a different choice than they have, and find the very notion to be offensive. Since you won't make their choice, they will use the law to force it on you.

Ultimately what it comes down to is a point I have made numerous times on this board: Freedom is the single most offensive concept that humanity has ever dreamed. We don't like it, and we are constantly trying to get rid of it.

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Buckle your pants or they might fall down.

The great morass of reproductive rights.

He's positing things that are provable or disprovable. The burden of proof in such a debate is not on me.

Fatty foods only are bad in extreme? False: read any nutrition journal.

Second hand smoke is always detrimental? False: understand medical risk is only related to correlation, not causation.

CPS takes children from parents who violate the law? True: if the child's health is involved. The only way to ban smoking in the home is on health grounds. Therefore, endangering a child's health is child endangering on a recurring and habitual/constant basis, DUI is an acute/isolated incident.


If you want penalties for smoking in the home with children, do it without infringing upon freedom: create a civil, not criminal, cause of action once kids turn 18. In other words, grew up around smoke? Sue your parents when they no longer hold your rights in stewardship. Making it a criminal action is simply small-minded.

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“The duty of a patriot is to protect his country from its government.” - Thomas Paine

Well that sucks.

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"Therefore do not worry about tomorrow, for tomorrow will worry about itself. Each day has enough trouble of its own." Jesus of Nazareth

Are you being serious here? (I can never tell).

Let them suffer for 18 years, and then let them take civil recourse?

I'm curious as to why exactly parents should have the freedom to smoke, but children shouldn't have the freedom to breathe freely. Abrogation of one non-intrusive freedom in order to satisfy a freedom that causes harm to others, really?

Adults have a choice to put themselves in those situation. Kids don't.

Children don't hold rights, their rights are in trust.



True. How about this: parents can drop their kids off at the nearest foster care group home, and save us all the paperwork of the consequences of criminalizing smoking in the home?




I'm being only partly serious.

The point is that you can't criminalize smoking in the home without risking a FAR worse outcome for the children.

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“The duty of a patriot is to protect his country from its government.” - Thomas Paine

Seems to me that this belongs in another forum. There's no need to let it spread to other places. Otherwise this will just become another forum for me to no go into.

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Gorse