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Dennis Kucinich to create 1M UFO-Hunting jobs
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Author:  Hopwin [ Mon Jan 25, 2010 2:50 pm ]
Post subject:  Dennis Kucinich to create 1M UFO-Hunting jobs

or some such.
http://www.newsnet5.com/news/22334844/detail.html
Quote:
CLEVELAND -- Hours before President Barack Obama's State of the Union address in which the economy and jobs will be a central focus, Congressman Dennis Kucinich is set to unveil a major jobs program he said will add one million jobs for Americans struggling to find a place back at work.

Aids to Kucinich said he will outline a major new initiative, where older workers, in their early 60s, can take advantage of Social Security retirement benefits to exit the workforce, making room for younger workers who have been struggling to find jobs.

Kucinich said he will introduce his jobs program bill this week on Capitol Hill.


So we'll pay older workers to retire to free up their positions? How... umm... insightful? Creative? Mathematically challenged?

Author:  Monte [ Mon Jan 25, 2010 3:20 pm ]
Post subject: 

Is that such a terrible idea? Examine it on it's merits, or at the very least come up with a better thread title.

Author:  Diamondeye [ Mon Jan 25, 2010 3:25 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Dennis Kucinich to create 1M UFO-Hunting jobs

It's not completely terrible; many companies offer early retirement packages that are cheaper in the long run than retaining workers.

However A) Hopwin has examined it on its merits insofar as the very brief information available and B) the inevitable conclusion is that the government will end up paying for this retirement with money it doesn't have and there are no corresponding savings to anyone except possibly some companies who can hire new workers for less money.

Author:  Beryllin [ Mon Jan 25, 2010 3:30 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Dennis Kucinich to create 1M UFO-Hunting jobs

Rats! And I thought, by the thread title, I was gonna get back to work, finally. :P

Author:  Hopwin [ Mon Jan 25, 2010 3:31 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Dennis Kucinich to create 1M UFO-Hunting jobs

Diamondeye wrote:
However A) Hopwin has examined it on its merits insofar as the very brief information available and B) the inevitable conclusion is that the government will end up paying for this retirement with money it doesn't have and there are no corresponding savings to anyone except possibly some companies who can hire new workers for less money.

Ding.

Author:  Elmarnieh [ Mon Jan 25, 2010 4:37 pm ]
Post subject: 

Its pretty much giving the money right to the businesses in the form of cheaper labor with less accrued vacation time while relieving the businesses from having to pay a higher reward to get older staff to accept early retirement.

I thought you didn't like it when the government gave business favors from the public coffers Monte.

Author:  Rorinthas [ Mon Jan 25, 2010 6:08 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Dennis Kucinich to create 1M UFO-Hunting jobs

Isn't that what social security is? So basically he's saying we need to lower the retirement age?

Author:  Rynar [ Mon Jan 25, 2010 6:26 pm ]
Post subject:  Re:

Elmarnieh wrote:
Its pretty much giving the money right to the businesses in the form of cheaper labor with less accrued vacation time while relieving the businesses from having to pay a higher reward to get older staff to accept early retirement.

I thought you didn't like it when the government gave business favors from the public coffers Monte.


I'm not sure which one it is yet, I can guarentee from the context that it's one of his three old standby positions.

a) Not reading an article or the OP before posting himself to comment on the article and/or OP.
b) Jumping into ignorance fueled attack mode against a presumed "conservative" author, regardless of content.
c) Pathological, bipolar peak and valleyesque, inconsistancy.

Author:  Diamondeye [ Mon Jan 25, 2010 7:01 pm ]
Post subject:  Re:

Elmarnieh wrote:
Its pretty much giving the money right to the businesses in the form of cheaper labor with less accrued vacation time while relieving the businesses from having to pay a higher reward to get older staff to accept early retirement.

I thought you didn't like it when the government gave business favors from the public coffers Monte.


Yes, but remember Dennis Kucinich proposed it. Therefore, it must be a good idea since Dennis Kucinich has lots of credibility with liberals. It's the same reason that anything Rush Limbaugh can be disregarded by them, just applied in the opposite direction, and hence the demand to "examine it on its merits".

Author:  Rafael [ Tue Jan 26, 2010 10:30 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Re:

Diamondeye wrote:
Elmarnieh wrote:
Its pretty much giving the money right to the businesses in the form of cheaper labor with less accrued vacation time while relieving the businesses from having to pay a higher reward to get older staff to accept early retirement.

I thought you didn't like it when the government gave business favors from the public coffers Monte.


Yes, but remember Dennis Kucinich proposed it. Therefore, it must be a good idea since Dennis Kucinich has lots of credibility with liberals. It's the same reason that anything Rush Limbaugh can be disregarded by them, just applied in the opposite direction, and hence the demand to "examine it on its merits".


Have you noticed that when stupid conservative ideas get painted up and made fashionable (Fashion is the number one feature of attractiveness for "Liberals" it seems), they become plausible, reasonable *and* being ushered in under a public mandate?

Even the word Liberal is more fashionable than conservative. Conservative gives the impression of old, outmoded and obslete.

Author:  Ladas [ Tue Jan 26, 2010 10:46 am ]
Post subject: 

What jobs is he adding? None. He is just shifting positions from those already employed to those looking for jobs by retiring the people already in those positions.

Depending on the exact nature of his "bill", if a private company were to implement such a plan, they would be sued for age discrimination.

Author:  Khross [ Tue Jan 26, 2010 10:48 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Dennis Kucinich to create 1M UFO-Hunting jobs

Rynar:

I'm fairly certain you can challenge Montegue's response and its lack of forethought without insinuating mental instability.

Montegue:

What exactly do you see as the merits of this plan?

Author:  Kaffis Mark V [ Tue Jan 26, 2010 11:33 am ]
Post subject:  Re:

Ladas wrote:
What jobs is he adding? None. He is just shifting positions from those already employed to those looking for jobs by retiring the people already in those positions.

Depending on the exact nature of his "bill", if a private company were to implement such a plan, they would be sued for age discrimination.

Ah, but shifting the positions in that way reduces the unemployment statistic. Nevermind that it produces no more jobs and no more income for the population (nor even any more revenue for the government!).. it looks good for the politicians when they can trot out that unemployment graph, and that's all that matters.

I wonder which is cheaper: government funded, limited duration unemployment benefits; or government funded retirement incentives + retirement benefits?

Author:  Ladas [ Tue Jan 26, 2010 11:45 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Re:

Kaffis Mark V wrote:
Nevermind that it produces no more jobs and no more income for the population (nor even any more revenue for the government!).. it looks good for the politicians when they can trot out that unemployment graph, and that's all that matters.


It actually has a net reduction in tax revenue for the government, state and federal, while increasing expenses. Its a good plan, I highly recommend it.

Author:  Kaffis Mark V [ Tue Jan 26, 2010 1:43 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Re:

Ladas wrote:
Kaffis Mark V wrote:
Nevermind that it produces no more jobs and no more income for the population (nor even any more revenue for the government!).. it looks good for the politicians when they can trot out that unemployment graph, and that's all that matters.


It actually has a net reduction in tax revenue for the government, state and federal, while increasing expenses. Its a good plan, I highly recommend it.

Yep, I forgot to point that part out; it's commensurate with the net reduction in population income, and amplified by the low tax burden retired people generally face.

Author:  Rynar [ Tue Jan 26, 2010 7:44 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Dennis Kucinich to create 1M UFO-Hunting jobs

Khross wrote:
Rynar:

I'm fairly certain you can challenge Montegue's response and its lack of forethought without insinuating mental instability.

Montegue:

What exactly do you see as the merits of this plan?


Oh, I didn't insinuate mental instability. I was speaking only of method, not motive.

Author:  Monte [ Wed Jan 27, 2010 1:47 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Dennis Kucinich to create 1M UFO-Hunting jobs

Khross wrote:

What exactly do you see as the merits of this plan?


I honestly don't know if I like it or not. There's no guarantee that younger workers would be hired or that *anyone* would be hired if his plan were enacted. It may not have it's intended effect. If I saw some more in depth analysis, I might be able to make a better call on supporting it or not.

Author:  Micheal [ Wed Jan 27, 2010 2:13 am ]
Post subject: 

If they plan to replace the older skilled workers with trainees sans clues, its an idiotic idea.

The general run is the older skilled workers phase out training almost as skilled workers to do their jobs, who then train the ones below them to do their jobs, etc. until you get to the newbs who get to sweep the floor and learn as they go. The savings is almost always overestimated as the companies then spend the next year getting their workforce retrained.

Author:  Hopwin [ Wed Jan 27, 2010 7:59 am ]
Post subject:  Re:

Micheal wrote:
If they plan to replace the older skilled workers with trainees sans clues, its an idiotic idea.

The general run is the older skilled workers phase out training almost as skilled workers to do their jobs, who then train the ones below them to do their jobs, etc. until you get to the newbs who get to sweep the floor and learn as they go. The savings is almost always overestimated as the companies then spend the next year getting their workforce retrained.

Same deal with most compensation packages. They under pay so they have high turnover which results in perpetual training and massive loss of competitive intelligence. Some day companies might learn that when you treat people well and compensate them fairly you save in the long run. It isn't sexy but its true.

Author:  Khross [ Wed Jan 27, 2010 8:16 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Dennis Kucinich to create 1M UFO-Hunting jobs

Monte wrote:
Khross wrote:
What exactly do you see as the merits of this plan?
I honestly don't know if I like it or not. There's no guarantee that younger workers would be hired or that *anyone* would be hired if his plan were enacted. It may not have it's intended effect. If I saw some more in depth analysis, I might be able to make a better call on supporting it or not.
Alright, but I don't think you need third party analysis to see that this is a bad idea. One of the major problems facing the American job force is a lack of workplace skill and discipline. While there are certainly talented and dedicated people in the work force from Generations X, Y, and Whatever the **** Comes After (tm), the current career model is actually expensive and counterproductive from a business standpoint. Asset level employees are expect to change positions and employers every 6 years. The cost of replacing those employees generally far exceeds their salary demands and expectation. However, companies rarely, if ever, provide internal career path development any longer. Consequently, no one goes from the mail room to the boardroom to borrow a popular metaphor.

The individuals likely to take voluntary retirement in this situation are either going to be very poor or financially indifferent to the government offering. And, as it stands, I'm fairly certain the majority of them will fall into the latter group. Realistically speaking, however, we don't have the young talent to replace them cost-effectively. So companies will hire two or more people at a fraction of the exit salary (20-25% max in most cases) and hand off their handling to someone who didn't retire. It increases the inefficiency of the organization. Plus, given first year turn over rates in career path positions, it will end up costing the company money over the first five years: money the government will pony up as incentive cash.

Just doesn't seem logical if you ask me.

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