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PostPosted: Tue Sep 15, 2009 12:26 pm 
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Or, can you find the lies...

Yes, its a transcript on Foxnews, but deal with it... Transcript of OBama's speech

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It is good to be back in Ohio, and it's good to be at one of GM's flagship plants with all of you. I just finished having a productive discussion with some of your coworkers about the challenges you're facing, both here and in your communities, and how we can meet them.

We talked about the economic troubles you've been weathering here in Trumbull County since long before our current crisis. Over the years, you've seen factories close, your friends laid off, and your sons and daughters move away in search of jobs and opportunity. I know it was painful around here earlier this year, when three shifts at this plant were cut down to one. And today, the local unemployment rate is unacceptably high - the second-highest in Ohio. I know at times, it seems like this community is on the brink - again.

There are some who see this pain and suggest that it's all somehow inevitable - that the only way for America to get ahead is for communities like yours to be left behind. But we know better. We know that our success on a nation depends on the success of communities just like this one. We know that the battle for America's future will be fought and won not just in the big cities, not just on the coasts, but in towns like Elkhart and Pittsburgh; Warren and Youngstown.

That's why I'm proud to be here with all of you. You work hard. You meet your responsibilities. You deserve better. You deserve better than the attitude that's prevailed from Washington to Wall Street to Detroit for too long; an attitude that valued wealth over work, selfishness over sacrifice, and greed over responsibility. And that's why I want you to know that every day I step into the Oval Office, I am thinking about you, I am working for you, and I am fighting on your behalf.

Sometimes, that involves making tough decisions that have been put off for too long. Now, as I've said before, I didn't run for President to manage auto companies. It wasn't something on my to-do list. It wasn't even something on my want-to-do list. I wasn't going to put any more tax dollars on the line if it meant perpetuating the bad business decisions that led to this point. But in the midst of a deep recession and financial crisis, the collapse of the auto industry would have caused enormous damage to our economy. So we intervened for one simple and compelling reason: your survival and the success of our economy depended on it.

Our belief was that if GM retooled and reinvented itself for the 21st century, it would be good for American workers, good for American manufacturing, and good for America's economy. I'm pleased to report that's exactly what's begun to happen at this plant and at others. And I'll tell you what: I will double down on the American people and all of you any day of the week.



One of the other efforts we undertook was the Cash for Clunkers program. That program was good for automakers, consumers, and our environment - and the Chevy Cobalt that you build here was one of GM's most sought-after cars under that program. Dealers across the country started running out of it and needed you to build more.

One other thing. For too long, our auto companies faced uncertain and conflicting fuel economy standards. That made it difficult for you to plan down the road. That's why, today, we are launching - for the first time in history - a new national standard aimed at both increasing gas mileage and decreasing greenhouse gas pollution for all new cars and trucks sold in America. This action will give our auto companies some long-overdue clarity, stability, and predictability. In the past, an agreement like this would have been impossible - but this time was different. Unlikely allies came together - automakers, the UAW, environmental advocates, Democrats and Republicans, California and more than a dozen other states - all of them pledging to set aside the quarrels of the past for the sake of the future.



Because of the steps we have taken, this plant is about to shift into higher gear. 150 of your coworkers came back to work yesterday. More than 1,000 will be coming back to work in less than three weeks as production of the Cobalt ramps up. And next year, this plant will begin production of the Chevy Cruze, a new car that will get more than 40 miles per gallon.

So if you picked up a copy of the Youngstown Vindicator back in January, you would have seen a headline that read "Worries mount in wake of layoffs." But just a couple of weeks ago, you'd have read a different story - "Good news at Lordstown is good news for all." And today, you made some more good news: I understand that the one millionth Cobalt rolled off the assembly line late last night. So I want to not just congratulate, but thank each and every one of you. You're doing your part to move us forward and make sure that the high-quality, well-engineered, safe and fuel-efficient cars of the future will be built where they always have been - right here in Ohio, right here across the Midwest, right here in America.

But even though you're proving that American automakers are getting back in the game, you know that our economic troubles are far from over. You know that we have a lot of work to do to not just get this community moving again, and this economy moving again, but to build a stronger foundation for our future.

Some folks in Washington have already forgotten just what it was we walked into eight months ago. So let's just go through the facts of where we were. A financial system near collapse. 700,000 workers losing their jobs each month. A sudden decline in credit that made it very difficult to take out home loans, auto loans, student loans, or small business loans. It was so bad that experts of all political persuasions feared a second coming of the Great Depression.

So we took bold, swift action to make sure that didn't happen. We moved to keep responsible homeowners in their homes and jumpstart lending. And we passed a sweeping Recovery Act without any of the usual Washington earmarks or pork-barrel spending - and that plan is working.

Now this is important. One-third of that plan went to tax relief. We cut your taxes. We cut taxes for 95 percent of America's working families - 4.5 million families in Ohio alone - and we cut taxes for small businesses on the investments they make.

Another third was emergency relief. For Americans who were laid off, we extended unemployment benefits - a measure that made a difference for 12 million Americans, including 570,000 right here in Ohio. We made health insurance 65 percent cheaper for families relying on COBRA while looking for work. We saved the jobs of tens of thousands of state and local workers, including 336 police officers right here in Ohio.

The last third is investing in your towns and your future. Just as one example of many, over in Canfield, we awarded a competitive contract to a local company to repair a bridge on Route 11. That allowed them to avoid layoffs they were otherwise going to make. And that allowed local folks to keep coming to work, doing the work America needs done.

We still have a long way to go, Ohio. But there's little debate that the decisions we have made and the steps we have taken have helped stop our economic freefall. In some places, they've helped us turn the corner. Home sales are up, business investment is starting to stabilize, and for the first time in 18 months, we are seeing growth in manufacturing. I know that's small consolation when so many people you know are still out of work or have given up looking. It's going to take some time to achieve a complete recovery. But I will not rest until anyone looking for a job can find one - and I'm not talking about just any job; but good jobs that give every family a fair shot at the American Dream. That's what we're fighting for every day.

We're fighting for an America where your children will be armed with the skills they need to compete with any worker, anywhere in the world. We're making an historic commitment to strengthening and improving education from the cradle to a career. And I have set a goal that by 2020, America will once again have the highest proportion of college graduates in the world.

We're fighting for an America where clean energy generates green jobs - jobs that can't be outsourced; jobs that help free us from the grip of foreign oil; jobs that make sure the cars of the future and the technologies that power them are made right here in the USA.

And yes, just in case you were wondering, we are fighting for an America where no American should have to worry about going without health insurance or fear that one illness could cost them everything. We're going to reform the system to provide more security and stability to those who have health insurance; offer quality, affordable choices to those who currently don't; and bring health care costs for our families, our businesses, and our government under control.

That's what we're fighting for. To bring Lordstown and Youngstown and Warren back. To make sure that our towns and our middle class - a middle class forged in plants just like this one - don't just survive today, but thrive tomorrow. And I want you to deliver a message to the GM Team members who are manning the line and couldn't join us today: As long as you've still got an ounce of fight left in you, I'll have a ton of fight left in me. And as long as I have the privilege of being your President, I'm going to keep fighting for a future that is brighter for this community, for Ohio, and for the United States of America. Thank you.


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 15, 2009 12:32 pm 
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I'd highlight the part where I think he's lying, but I'd just be requoting the entire post.

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 15, 2009 3:14 pm 
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Ohio has been considered the "swing" state for a long time. This is just 2012 campagining.

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 15, 2009 3:40 pm 
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what an ***

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 15, 2009 5:49 pm 
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He does paint a wonderful image full of hope and promises of a better day, but I don't see most of the pictures becoming reality personally. There has always been a natural order to the economics of the world (ie the "have"s and the "have not"s) and that won't change.

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 15, 2009 8:38 pm 
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Raziel6K wrote:
He does paint a wonderful image full of hope and promises of a better day, but I don't see most of the pictures becoming reality personally. There has always been a natural order to the economics of the world (ie the "have"s and the "have not"s) and that won't change.


I agree, and at the end of the day, most human beings want to help their fellow man. However when it's done at the point of a sword (or gun/legal action etc) there is going to be resentment, and resistance. I should be able to choose what happens with the fruits of my labor. I should be allowed to choose what I wish to give to charity, if anything at all. Unfortunatly, this is a national version of EQ's play nice policy. Everyone will tapdance up to that line, and we will find ways to cheat under the new system. Or we can give people the ability to choose what they feel is best for their own lives. If I want to pee away money and buy a flat screen instead of buy medical insurance, then I deserve to lose my shirt if I have a catastrophy. The system should reward the conservative person (not political stance) instead of the ignorant or the people who fail to plan.

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 15, 2009 8:42 pm 
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It's probably more than 2012. We've got a an important sentatorial race coming up next year, if Geogre still plans to retire or doesn't get ousted for that closure vote on the regulatory Czar.

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 15, 2009 9:00 pm 
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Obama is in town for Specter. I don't begrudge it to them, they did win after all, this is the benefit of spending the money to win in other races- makes it easier to earn some for others.

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 15, 2009 11:07 pm 
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We're fighting for an America where your children will be armed with the skills they need to compete with any worker, anywhere in the world.


What a load of ****. Until the American is willing to work ungodly hours that the people across the Pacific do, this cannot be a reality.

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 15, 2009 11:39 pm 
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Rafael wrote:
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We're fighting for an America where your children will be armed with the skills they need to compete with any worker, anywhere in the world.


What a load of ****. Until the American is willing to work ungodly hours that the people across the Pacific do, this cannot be a reality.



Work for pennies, ungodly hours for pennies.

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 16, 2009 7:51 am 
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Rafael wrote:
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We're fighting for an America where your children will be armed with the skills they need to compete with any worker, anywhere in the world.


What a load of ****. Until the American is willing to work ungodly hours that the people across the Pacific do, this cannot be a reality.



Like in France?

I, for one, don't *want* our people to be toiling in a state of near slavery like they do in countries with few or no labor laws, protections, and unions. There is no value in it, save for the people at the top that benefit most from such a situation.

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 16, 2009 9:08 am 
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Monte wrote:


I, for one, don't *want* our people to be toiling in a state of near slavery like they do in countries with few or no labor laws, protections, and unions. There is no value in it, save for the people at the top that benefit most from such a situation.


Working long hours does not, in any way, remove labor laws, safety protections, or anything else except thework-week length requirement.

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 16, 2009 9:09 am 
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Well, the work week length requirement is more about creating a disincentive for companies to work people an obscene amount of hours. Overtime is a great concept.

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 16, 2009 9:17 am 
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Rafael wrote:
Quote:
We're fighting for an America where your children will be armed with the skills they need to compete with any worker, anywhere in the world.


What a load of ****. Until the American is willing to work ungodly hours that the people across the Pacific do, this cannot be a reality.


I completely disagree.

What he's refering to here is not unskilled labor, which is where you compete with the Pacific. He's talking about skilled labor, which is about being smarter, more efficient and more creative than your competition. It's been America's strong point in the past, and there's not reason to believe it can't be in the future.

Yes, hard work is very much part of that too, but that's never really be something that America has been shy about historically. It just needs a kick in the pants from time to time.


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 16, 2009 9:33 am 
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Monte wrote:
Well, the work week length requirement is more about creating a disincentive for companies to work people an obscene amount of hours. Overtime is a great concept.


There's a lot of ground between "obscene hours" and the 40-hour work week.

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 16, 2009 9:42 am 
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Then I suppose the question would be Aizle, are the automanufacturer's in Korea, China, Mexico and Japan any less "skilled" than the autoworkers in the US?

That is the audience he is addressing, and "competing" with those companies is closely tied via rhetoric in his speeches to not only the welfare of the American worker (specifically UAW members), but to the American economy as a whole.

So, from that standpoint, Rafael's comment is accurate.

Which makes it double interesting that the UAW factories can't even compete with their American counterparts, much less the foreign factories where standards of living and work expectations is substantially different.

Then add in the speeches from Obama addressing the need for health care reform as a requirement to make our competitive in the world market, but almost all the plans (haven't read all yet) give explicit exemptions to Unions (like the UAW).

So what exactly is Obama's meaning?


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 16, 2009 4:54 pm 
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Aizle wrote:
Rafael wrote:
Quote:
We're fighting for an America where your children will be armed with the skills they need to compete with any worker, anywhere in the world.


What a load of ****. Until the American is willing to work ungodly hours that the people across the Pacific do, this cannot be a reality.


I completely disagree.

Yes, hard work is very much part of that too, but that's never really be something that America has been shy about historically. It just needs a kick in the pants from time to time.


You are thinking about things to specifically and not in the broad economic sense. Everyone works harder; those that labor to create new labor saving techniques, methods or machines, those that labor themselves etc.

What this leads is greater output and throws the balance of comparative advantage to where we have very few services or products that can compete with the domsetic equivalent in other countries. Likewise, we it creates a situation where we cannot afford to consume or own goods and services wth substitute goods and services from other countries.

Quote:
What he's refering to here is not unskilled labor, which is where you compete with the Pacific. He's talking about skilled labor, which is about being smarter, more efficient and more creative than your competition. It's been America's strong point in the past, and there's not reason to believe it can't be in the future.


This is completely either a blantant lie or a misinformed opinion.

Have you ever worked in the production sector? Six Sigma is one of the broadest employed techniques that management systems use to analyze and refine production to reduce wasted motion, effort, materials and time. Basically, it fully utilizes all available assets in the most efficient and robust configuration possible. Guess what Six Sigma is called and where it came from? It's from something called TPS ... Toyota Production System. In fact, TPS is responsible for the entire existence of lean manufacturing systems theory. TPS came about over fifty years ago.

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 16, 2009 4:59 pm 
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Rafael wrote:
What this leads is greater output and throws the balance of comparative advantage to where we have very few services or products that can compete with the domsetic equivalent in other countries. Likewise, we it creates a situation where we cannot afford to consume or own goods and services wth substitute goods and services from other countries.

Can you explain this better? We're discussing comparative advantage and it's effect on quantities demanded right now.

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Have you ever worked in the production sector? Six Sigma is one of the broadest employed techniques that management systems use to analyze and refine production to reduce wasted motion, effort, materials and time. Basically, it fully utilizes all available assets in the most efficient and robust configuration possible. Guess what Six Sigma is called and where it came from? It's from something called TPS ... Toyota Production System. In fact, TPS is responsible for the entire existence of lean manufacturing systems theory. TPS came about over fifty years ago.

Is that that whole black belt things I've heard about? My friend's brother in-law is one of those.

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 16, 2009 5:07 pm 
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Rafael:

I'll correct you on one small thing. Six Sigma originated with Xerox and Motorola, not Toyota. Xerox was the first company to make significant use of it. Many of the developers of the program were Japanese, but only a few had ties to Toyota.

That said, Six Sigma has been widely discredited as producing profits for investors, since most Six Sigma compliant organizations lag behind the S&P 500.

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Last edited by Khross on Wed Sep 16, 2009 5:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Ladas wrote:
Then I suppose the question would be Aizle, are the automanufacturer's in Korea, China, Mexico and Japan any less "skilled" than the autoworkers in the US?

That is the audience he is addressing, and "competing" with those companies is closely tied via rhetoric in his speeches to not only the welfare of the American worker (specifically UAW members), but to the American economy as a whole.

So, from that standpoint, Rafael's comment is accurate.

Which makes it double interesting that the UAW factories can't even compete with their American counterparts, much less the foreign factories where standards of living and work expectations is substantially different.

Then add in the speeches from Obama addressing the need for health care reform as a requirement to make our competitive in the world market, but almost all the plans (haven't read all yet) give explicit exemptions to Unions (like the UAW).

So what exactly is Obama's meaning?


In my opinion what he's saying is that today we can't compete, because we are trying to compete on the level of unskilled labor. Assembly work is basically unskilled labor for the most part. Yes, there's some skill to it, but not from an education standpoint. What I got from his message is that we need to BECOME a skilled labor force. Here's the key section IMHO.

Obama wrote:
We're fighting for an America where your children will be armed with the skills they need to compete with any worker, anywhere in the world. We're making an historic commitment to strengthening and improving education from the cradle to a career. And I have set a goal that by 2020, America will once again have the highest proportion of college graduates in the world.


Obama knows that we can't compete with overseas labor, nor should we try. However, he's also smart enough to know that he can't tell those folks he's addressing that they are going to be slowly replaced by machines who can do their work twice as fast and twice as good for half the cost. So he has to approach it through their children (i.e. the future) and show how he's working to make things better for their kids.

IMHO, the smart people at those plants will see that is the subtle message, and the ignorant will get a "rah rah" speech.


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 16, 2009 5:17 pm 
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The President is still economically misinformed and continues to demonstrate his ignorance of the laws of supply and demand. The United States is still paying for the labor force expansion and open enrollment of the 1970s. The average American household works more hours for less income than it did prior to the blanket commoditization of education and labor. More importantly, increasing the number of college graduates is demonstrably achieved by lowering the standards of graduation and academic achievement. It's feelgood rhetoric that will translate to a net-negative impact on the country.

There are all sorts of mechanics that CAN be put in place for American workers to achieve competiveness, but expansive college attendance and graduation practices are not among them. The United States SHOULD, instead, focus on expanding the utility and breadth of primary and secondary education. Post-Secondary education is not the panacea Obama suggests. Beyond this, trade skills and trade training are educational areas that should receive more focus than academic and management targeted college programs. After all, there are already too many college graduates for most skilled and white collar jobs. Indeed, most of the middle and upper management positions have shifted to requiring Graduate School work and an MBA for marginal responsibility positions. A college degree is mandatory for basic non-trade positions.

So, let's work on fixing the primary and secondary education outcomes before we start suggesting that further expansion of academic access to naturally restrictive markets is the solution. Because, quite honestly, the last thing we need is more Education and English majors making minimum wage because they have no applicable job skills and no self-marketability.

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 16, 2009 5:22 pm 
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Gold highest unadjusted ever.
Silver - approaching 18/oz
Palladium hit 300 today
Platinum up 21

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Tying what Aizle posted in with what Khross posted, the American public and specifically, the audience Obama was addressing view a college education as a goal that will set you (or your children) up for life. This is no longer true. While the "mart people at those plants will see that is the subtle message" of Obama's speech, they're being just as ignorant as those "hearing" a "rah rah" speech.

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Screeling wrote:
Can you explain this better? We're discussing comparative advantage and it's effect on quantities demanded right now.


Qualitatively, it's the idea that an apple orchard farmer should grow apples, since he is more effecient at that to buy corn from a corn farmer. The corn farmer should likewise take advantage of this scenario. While an apple orchard owner might be able to grow corn, he may not have the knowledge and tools to do so as effeciently as the corn farmer. Thus, to obtain corn, the apple orchard owner should concentrate on growing apples if it is more effecient for him to do so than the it is for the corn farmer to grow apples. Total productivity of this system is higher.

In general, taking advantage of such manufacturing advantages increases aggregate demand. Individual demand is a function of many different variables (prices, number of buyers, price of complementary goods, preferences, etc) and need not necessarily go up. But the main effect of compartive advantage is to drive prices down and aggregate demand up.

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Is that that whole black belt things I've heard about? My friend's brother in-law is one of those.


Yes, that is the ranking system 6σ uses.

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Elmarnieh wrote:
Gold highest unadjusted ever.
Silver - approaching 18/oz
Palladium hit 300 today
Platinum up 21


Yes, gold is at 1019 when I looked.

But even more disturbing is the US Dollar closed at 76 and 1/4 today. Anyone in bonds is gonig to get raped.

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The hype vice, murderous nighttimes and knife fights invite crimes" - Nasir Jones


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