The Glade 4.0 :: View topic - Why would they want to send their child there anyway?

Children of lesbian couple barred from U.S. Catholic school
Agence France-Presse
Published: Wednesday, March 10, 2010

DENVER -- The Catholic Church in Denver, Colorado, has barred two children from enrolling in an area Catholic grade school because their parents are lesbians.

The church has actively campaigned against gay marriage, as it teaches that a valid marriage is only between a man and a woman.

"Parents living in open discord with Catholic teaching in areas of faith and morals unfortunately choose by their actions to disqualify their children from enrollment," the Archdiocese of Denver said in a statement.

The Sacred Heart of Jesus School in nearby Boulder, a town known for its liberal politics, informed the lesbian couple of the ruling. The women were told that their children would be able to finish pre-school, but not attend higher classes.

The controversial decision came to light when teachers complained to local media. Protesters showed up at the Sacred Heart Church on Sunday with signs asking "What would Jesus do?"

While some conservative religious groups in the United States have raged against homosexuality, the Catholic Church has been careful not to demonize gays.

"The church does not claim that people with a homosexual orientation are ‘bad' or that their children are less loved by God ... but what the church does teach is that sexual intimacy by anyone outside marriage is wrong [and] that marriage can only occur between a man and a woman," Archbishop Charles Chaput wrote in a column published on Wednesday in the Denver Catholic Register.

Aicila Lewis, executive director of Boulder Pride, a group that advocates for the gay community, said her organization has been hearing from Catholics.

"They want us to be aware that not everyone in the Catholic Church agrees with this decision. It's a wake-up call that this will cause a public outcry and not go unchallenged," Ms. Lewis said.

The pastor of Sacred Heart Catholic Church said it would be difficult for a child of gay parents to hear the church's teaching on marriage and then go home and see a different reality.

"We don't want to put any child in that tough position -- nor do we want to put the parents, or the teachers, at odds with the teachings of the Catholic Church," Reverend William Breslin wrote in a blog.

The pastor of Sacred Heart Catholic Church said it would be difficult for a child of gay parents to hear the church's teaching on marriage and then go home and see a different reality.

"We don't want to put any child in that tough position -- nor do we want to put the parents, or the teachers, at odds with the teachings of the Catholic Church," Reverend William Breslin wrote in a blog.

I'm all for allowing same-sex marriage and giving gay parents the rights to adopt and such, but how dare they use a child as a political tool! It's a child, you're supposed to raise it in as loving and caring and nurturing an environment as possible, and train them for success in the world. Is sending a kindergarten/grade one aged elementary school student into an environment that is openly critical of the love between their parents going to be good for their development?

For once, I agree with a pastor:

Quote:

Good for him, because that's exactly the point. Why would you ever consider putting a child in such a position? The only difference between the catholic school education and the non-catholic one is the catholic school is going to teach the child that mommy and mommy are sinful and not obeying God and will burn in hell. Why expose your child to that type of bigotry that early in life? Shame on the parents. It's your child, for goodness sakes! Not a **** protest placard!

Quote:

Why would they want to send their child there anyway?

Even if it is the best school where they live, I somehow don't think placing the child in an environment where the school system and their parents are actively opposed to each other is going to result in good academic results.

I guess it depends on how much time is actively spent on "gay people are going to hell" as part of the curriculum.

... it can be hard to change the political landscape on child issues, without an example cause to champion.

Aizle wrote:

I guess it depends on how much time is actively spent on "gay people are going to hell" as part of the curriculum.

To my knowledge, that would be zero, as it's not Catholic doctrine.

Aizle wrote:

... it can be hard to change the political landscape on child issues, without an example cause to champion.

What part of the political landscape regarding child issues need changing here?

It's your child, for goodness sakes! Not a **** protest placard!

Well first off I'm not advocating that there is something that needs changing. But it appears that this child's parents feel that they shouldn't be prohibited from sending their child to a Catholic school based on their sexual orientation.

Which, Aizle, goes back to:

Quote:

It's your child, for goodness sakes! Not a **** protest placard!

Vindicarre wrote:

Which, Aizle, goes back to:

Quote:

It's your child, for goodness sakes! Not a **** protest placard!

I get that. However, my question is this.

If you believe that you should be able to send your child to that school, how do you get that changed without your child becoming the center of that storm? I don't see a way to avoid it.

So you're left with lesser of two evils choice.

I don't think anybody is disputing their feelings, or the strength thereof; what's being disputed is their priorities vis-à-vis caring about their child's well-being.

Author:	Talya [ Mon Mar 15, 2010 1:11 pm ]
Post subject:	Why would they want to send their child there anyway?
http://www.nationalpost.com/news/story.html?id=2668341 Quote: Children of lesbian couple barred from U.S. Catholic school Agence France-Presse Published: Wednesday, March 10, 2010 DENVER -- The Catholic Church in Denver, Colorado, has barred two children from enrolling in an area Catholic grade school because their parents are lesbians. The church has actively campaigned against gay marriage, as it teaches that a valid marriage is only between a man and a woman. "Parents living in open discord with Catholic teaching in areas of faith and morals unfortunately choose by their actions to disqualify their children from enrollment," the Archdiocese of Denver said in a statement. The Sacred Heart of Jesus School in nearby Boulder, a town known for its liberal politics, informed the lesbian couple of the ruling. The women were told that their children would be able to finish pre-school, but not attend higher classes. The controversial decision came to light when teachers complained to local media. Protesters showed up at the Sacred Heart Church on Sunday with signs asking "What would Jesus do?" While some conservative religious groups in the United States have raged against homosexuality, the Catholic Church has been careful not to demonize gays. "The church does not claim that people with a homosexual orientation are ‘bad' or that their children are less loved by God ... but what the church does teach is that sexual intimacy by anyone outside marriage is wrong [and] that marriage can only occur between a man and a woman," Archbishop Charles Chaput wrote in a column published on Wednesday in the Denver Catholic Register. Aicila Lewis, executive director of Boulder Pride, a group that advocates for the gay community, said her organization has been hearing from Catholics. "They want us to be aware that not everyone in the Catholic Church agrees with this decision. It's a wake-up call that this will cause a public outcry and not go unchallenged," Ms. Lewis said. The pastor of Sacred Heart Catholic Church said it would be difficult for a child of gay parents to hear the church's teaching on marriage and then go home and see a different reality. "We don't want to put any child in that tough position -- nor do we want to put the parents, or the teachers, at odds with the teachings of the Catholic Church," Reverend William Breslin wrote in a blog. I'm going to take a different stance than many of you will expect. I'm all for allowing same-sex marriage and giving gay parents the rights to adopt and such, but how dare they use a child as a political tool! It's a child, you're supposed to raise it in as loving and caring and nurturing an environment as possible, and train them for success in the world. Is sending a kindergarten/grade one aged elementary school student into an environment that is openly critical of the love between their parents going to be good for their development? For once, I agree with a pastor: Quote: The pastor of Sacred Heart Catholic Church said it would be difficult for a child of gay parents to hear the church's teaching on marriage and then go home and see a different reality. "We don't want to put any child in that tough position -- nor do we want to put the parents, or the teachers, at odds with the teachings of the Catholic Church," Reverend William Breslin wrote in a blog. Good for him, because that's exactly the point. Why would you ever consider putting a child in such a position? The only difference between the catholic school education and the non-catholic one is the catholic school is going to teach the child that mommy and mommy are sinful and not obeying God and will burn in hell. Why expose your child to that type of bigotry that early in life? Shame on the parents. It's your child, for goodness sakes! Not a **** protest placard!

Author:	FarSky [ Mon Mar 15, 2010 1:18 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Why would they want to send their child there anyway?
Talya wrote: I'm all for allowing same-sex marriage and giving gay parents the rights to adopt and such, but how dare they use a child as a political tool! It's a child, you're supposed to raise it in as loving and caring and nurturing an environment as possible, and train them for success in the world. Is sending a kindergarten/grade one aged elementary school student into an environment that is openly critical of the love between their parents going to be good for their development? For once, I agree with a pastor: Quote: The pastor of Sacred Heart Catholic Church said it would be difficult for a child of gay parents to hear the church's teaching on marriage and then go home and see a different reality. "We don't want to put any child in that tough position -- nor do we want to put the parents, or the teachers, at odds with the teachings of the Catholic Church," Reverend William Breslin wrote in a blog. Good for him, because that's exactly the point. Why would you ever consider putting a child in such a position? The only difference between the catholic school education and the non-catholic one is the catholic school is going to teach the child that mommy and mommy are sinful and not obeying God and will burn in hell. Why expose your child to that type of bigotry that early in life? Shame on the parents. It's your child, for goodness sakes! Not a **** protest placard! This.

Author:	Aizle [ Mon Mar 15, 2010 1:27 pm ]
Post subject:
Perhaps it's the best school where they live? That said, I don't really have a problem with the school denying her access. However, what's more problematic is how she was able to gain access in the first place. I can't imagine that her parents being lesbians was something that happened suddenly out of the blue.

Author:	Talya [ Mon Mar 15, 2010 1:30 pm ]
Post subject:
Even if it is the best school where they live, I somehow don't think placing the child in an environment where the school system and their parents are actively opposed to each other is going to result in good academic results.

Author:	Hopwin [ Mon Mar 15, 2010 1:32 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Why would they want to send their child there anyway?
Talya wrote: Quote: The pastor of Sacred Heart Catholic Church said it would be difficult for a child of gay parents to hear the church's teaching on marriage and then go home and see a different reality. "We don't want to put any child in that tough position -- nor do we want to put the parents, or the teachers, at odds with the teachings of the Catholic Church," Reverend William Breslin wrote in a blog. Good for him, because that's exactly the point. Why would you ever consider putting a child in such a position? The only difference between the catholic school education and the non-catholic one is the catholic school is going to teach the child that mommy and mommy are sinful and not obeying God and will burn in hell. Why expose your child to that type of bigotry that early in life? Shame on the parents. It's your child, for goodness sakes! Not a **** protest placard! As a catholic school alum, I am gonna take offense at the above statements. Not once in 13 (k-12) years of Catholic schooling (at 2 different schools) did homosexuality come up. Yes the church does not approve but we aren't talking about bible-thumpers here. In fact several of the people I graduated High School later came out as lesbians. Also in grade school most of the kids were not even Catholic, their parents paid because it was a better education than public schools but not as expensive as non-religious private schools. So thbt on you I say! Thbt.

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Author:	Taskiss [ Mon Mar 15, 2010 1:38 pm ]
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It's hard to say. They taught Latin in Catholic school when I was a kid, so it's been a while. They only accepted Catholic kids in the the school I went to, not Jewish or Baptist or whatever. Seems folks should take it for granted that the kid will be instructed in Catholic ideology at a Catholic school. I don't see that as necessarily being contrary to what a gay or lesbian parent may want for their kid, but I can see how a gay or lesbian couple might not fly under the radar and knowledge of it may evoke a response from the parish priest. From my limited experience with the Catholic church these days, they are fully embracing the inclusion of gays and lesbians (if the ***** of my in-laws is any indication).

Author:	Dedolito [ Mon Mar 15, 2010 1:47 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Why would they want to send their child there anyway?
Quote: Why would they want to send their child there anyway? Because the local private Catholic schools are the only eligible non-gang and non-drug infested ~~schools~~ holding cells in the tri-city area? I do not know anything about the local conditions where this story broke, but for me and mine, the only decent education to be had anywhere near where I live are the private religious schools. My eligible public schools are in the bottom 15th percentile for California. We are years away from having to make the decision between whether we 1. move to a better school system (to move now would cause us to go into bankruptcy which would limit our eligibility for housing in the good school districts and limit the quality of life for as-of-yet-realized sproggs), 2. private school (of which the Catholic schools are the best education-wise), and 3. homeschooling (which we can't afford to do without offloading the house so that only 1 income would be needed, see 1) In my worldview 1 & 3 >>>>>>>>>>>> 2 but 2 remains a contender as long as we are located where we are. You can make the argument that any and all sacrifices should be made for your children's future, including going into bankruptcy to clear mortgage debt that can't be repaid given the current housing market, but that also limits opportunity for the child as well. Rock meets hard place if you ask me. Of course for all I know this couple belongs to an otherwise excellent public school system and they are just grandstanding on the entire Homosexuality vs The Christian Establishment soapbox. In which case, shame on them. My opinions are worth exactly what you paid for 'em. -Deeds

Author:	Aizle [ Mon Mar 15, 2010 1:47 pm ]
Post subject:	Re:
Talya wrote: Even if it is the best school where they live, I somehow don't think placing the child in an environment where the school system and their parents are actively opposed to each other is going to result in good academic results. I guess it depends on how much time is actively spent on "gay people are going to hell" as part of the curriculum. I'm guessing it's not very much. So as long as she were to keep a low profile, she'd probably be ok. But I agree on the whole don't use your kids as political weapons thing. Although, the other side to that coin is that it can be hard to change the political landscape on child issues, without an example cause to champion.

Author:	Khross [ Mon Mar 15, 2010 1:57 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Why would they want to send their child there anyway?
There are no excellent public school systems; there are a smattering of excellent public schools, which happen to be private schools in all but name only.

Author:	Talya [ Mon Mar 15, 2010 2:02 pm ]
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Dedolito, if that's the case, I suppose that that is another matter. Here, the public schools are generally good. And the Catholic Schools are also public schools, so there's no difference in quality to speak of.

Author:	Vindicarre [ Mon Mar 15, 2010 2:07 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Re:
Aizle wrote: I guess it depends on how much time is actively spent on "gay people are going to hell" as part of the curriculum. To my knowledge, that would be zero, as it's not Catholic doctrine. Aizle wrote: ... it can be hard to change the political landscape on child issues, without an example cause to champion. What part of the political landscape regarding child issues need changing here?

Author:	Dedolito [ Mon Mar 15, 2010 2:19 pm ]
Post subject:
I'd like to thank the spineless school board members, California Legislators, No Child Left Behind, and the current local and federal financial boondoggle (in that order) for ruining perfectly viable public schools. I don't think I'm getting old and jaded, but the stuff I hear coming out of my old high school these days turns my stomach. #2 school in the district when I went through it, think it's slipped to #3 these days, but if the current school was matched against the schools of my era, it possesses what would have been considered a bottom-of-pile curriculum. 5 years ago I would have argued for pages with Khross (and did =P) about the availability of good public education opportunities. These days... not so much...

Author:	Khross [ Mon Mar 15, 2010 2:39 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Why would they want to send their child there anyway?
Dedolito: LCD.

Author:	Dedolito [ Mon Mar 15, 2010 2:53 pm ]
Post subject:
Which is going to take on a whole new level of asininity if this entire nation-wide curriculum plan is adopted.

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Author:	Aizle [ Mon Mar 15, 2010 3:02 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Re:
Vindicarre wrote: Aizle wrote: I guess it depends on how much time is actively spent on "gay people are going to hell" as part of the curriculum. To my knowledge, that would be zero, as it's not Catholic doctrine. Aizle wrote: ... it can be hard to change the political landscape on child issues, without an example cause to champion. What part of the political landscape regarding child issues need changing here? Well first off I'm not advocating that there is something that needs changing. But it appears that this child's parents feel that they shouldn't be prohibited from sending their child to a Catholic school based on their sexual orientation.

Author:	Vindicarre [ Mon Mar 15, 2010 3:06 pm ]
Post subject:
Which, Aizle, goes back to: Quote: It's your child, for goodness sakes! Not a **** protest placard!

Author:	Diamondeye [ Mon Mar 15, 2010 3:08 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Re:
Aizle wrote: Well first off I'm not advocating that there is something that needs changing. But it appears that this child's parents feel that they shouldn't be prohibited from sending their child to a Catholic school based on their sexual orientation. Uh.. yes, obviously they feel that way. That's why the thread exists.

Author:	Aizle [ Mon Mar 15, 2010 3:10 pm ]
Post subject:	Re:
Vindicarre wrote: Which, Aizle, goes back to: Quote: It's your child, for goodness sakes! Not a **** protest placard! I get that. However, my question is this. If you believe that you should be able to send your child to that school, how do you get that changed without your child becoming the center of that storm? I don't see a way to avoid it. So you're left with lesser of two evils choice.

Author:	Diamondeye [ Mon Mar 15, 2010 3:20 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Re:
Aizle wrote: Vindicarre wrote: Which, Aizle, goes back to: Quote: It's your child, for goodness sakes! Not a **** protest placard! I get that. However, my question is this. If you believe that you should be able to send your child to that school, how do you get that changed without your child becoming the center of that storm? I don't see a way to avoid it. So you're left with lesser of two evils choice. Yes. From their perspective. So what?

Author:	Vindicarre [ Mon Mar 15, 2010 3:21 pm ]
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The way to avoid it would be not to send your child to that school. I don't quite understand where you're going with the "lesser of two evils". If I had to guess, I'd say that the greater evil would be using your child as a means to effect a change that is really about you. While the lesser evil is thinking that you're entitled to the benefits of belonging to an organization without following their rules. Both are symptomatic of our entitlement culture.

Author:	Kaffis Mark V [ Mon Mar 15, 2010 3:49 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Why would they want to send their child there anyway?
Khross wrote: Dedolito: LCD. What do liquid crystal displays have to do with gays, or school, or the Pope?

Author:	Vindicarre [ Mon Mar 15, 2010 3:51 pm ]
Post subject:
All lesbians know that the Pope declared liquid crystal displays heretical, and banned them from Catholic schools.

Author:	Aizle [ Mon Mar 15, 2010 3:54 pm ]
Post subject:
I'm only guessing at what their options are if you take as a given that they feel strongly that they should be able to send their child to the school. Nothing more. Obviously many here feel differently.

Author:	Vindicarre [ Mon Mar 15, 2010 3:58 pm ]
Post subject:
I don't think anybody is disputing their feelings, or the strength thereof; what's being disputed is their priorities vis-à-vis caring about their child's well-being.

Author:	Talya [ Mon Mar 15, 2010 4:04 pm ]
Post subject:	Re:
Vindicarre wrote: I don't think anybody is disputing their feelings, or the strength thereof; what's being disputed is their priorities vis-à-vis caring about their child's well-being. Yes. If the article were comparing the educational standards of various schools, and the parents had been quoted saying they were just trying to get their child the best education possible, I'd be more sympathetic, I guess. But the article's all about the church denying lesbian women access to a catholic school. My first reaction is, "I wouldn't even consider sending my kids to a catholic school. Why would I put them through that? Just to make a point?"