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Benefits to US of Alliance w/ Israel
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Author:  RangerDave [ Mon Mar 15, 2010 3:26 pm ]
Post subject:  Benefits to US of Alliance w/ Israel
Everyone knows the costs of the US alliance with Israel, but what are the benefits (to the US)? Leaving aside for a minute any moral arguments one way or the other, what do we gain in terms of tangible military, intelligence, trade, etc. benefits? Anyone know?
Author:  Vindicarre [ Mon Mar 15, 2010 3:29 pm ]
Post subject: 
Off the top of my head, I'd say there are two things:
A strategically placed ally
The benefit of shared intelligence (I can't give you tangibles here; I don't have the clearance any more ;))
Author:  Aizle [ Mon Mar 15, 2010 3:44 pm ]
Post subject: 
We keep the US jewish voters molified.
Author:  Diamondeye [ Mon Mar 15, 2010 6:10 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Benefits to US of Alliance w/ Israel
We avoid the blame for any future anti-Semitic pogroms.

Beyond that, it's largely a matter of A) Keeping Israeli self-defense measures and paranoia from crossing over into truely absurd territory, and keeping the unstable middle eastern nations from being much more bellicose by the threat of a nation that has kicked their *** four times, three of them when it didn't have U.S. assistance or technology.
Author:  Rynar [ Mon Mar 15, 2010 6:31 pm ]
Post subject: 
Because of the current geo-political state, our entire economy, and way of life, hinge on us having a strong toe-hold in the middle of the worlds oil bearing region.
Author:  Micheal [ Mon Mar 15, 2010 7:40 pm ]
Post subject: 
We don't want to have a war with Israel. Lose-Lose in many ways. Best way to do that is to keep them as a strong ally, negating the danger of actually having to go to war with them.
Author:  Imperi [ Mon Mar 15, 2010 9:18 pm ]
Post subject:  Re:
Rynar wrote:
Because of the current geo-political state, our entire economy, and way of life, hinge on us having a strong toe-hold in the middle of the worlds oil bearing region.


Israel exports less than 1% the oil of Saudi Arabia. I would not consider them in the "middle" of the world's oil bearing region. That is like saying northern Mexico is in the middle of the world's movie producing region. Also note that we have a large navy and can ferry all the troops we need over there, if the situation warrants it.
Author:  Rynar [ Mon Mar 15, 2010 9:27 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Re:
Imperi wrote:
Rynar wrote:
Because of the current geo-political state, our entire economy, and way of life, hinge on us having a strong toe-hold in the middle of the worlds oil bearing region.


Israel exports less than 1% the oil of Saudi Arabia. I would not consider them in the "middle" of the world's oil bearing region. That is like saying Mexico is in the middle of global cinematic production (Hollywood). Also note that we have a large navy and can ferry all the troops we need over there, if the situation warrants it.


The Israeli importance to "Big Oil and and Middle-Eastern infuence" has nothing to do with the scant production levels in Israel. You enjoy the benefits of empire, in stark contrast to the rest of the world. This has much to do with a stratigic foothold in Israel. Infact it's the reason Israel exists today.
Author:  Imperi [ Mon Mar 15, 2010 9:34 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Re:
Rynar wrote:
Imperi wrote:
Rynar wrote:
Because of the current geo-political state, our entire economy, and way of life, hinge on us having a strong toe-hold in the middle of the worlds oil bearing region.


Israel exports less than 1% the oil of Saudi Arabia. I would not consider them in the "middle" of the world's oil bearing region. That is like saying Mexico is in the middle of global cinematic production (Hollywood). Also note that we have a large navy and can ferry all the troops we need over there, if the situation warrants it.


The Israeli importance to "Big Oil and and Middle-Eastern infuence" has nothing to do with the scant production levels in Israel. You enjoy the benefits of empire, in stark contrast to the rest of the world. This has much to do with a stratigic foothold in Israel. Infact it's the reason Israel exists today.


We aren't talking about why Israel exists today. We are discussing the benefit the U.S. gains in maintaining a strong alliance with Israel. I hope by "much to do" you mean "not at all". The economy and security of the U.S. does not depend on a strategic foothold in Israel.
Author:  Rynar [ Mon Mar 15, 2010 9:37 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Benefits to US of Alliance w/ Israel
No? The cost of cheap energy has nothing to do with our economy? Great analysis. :|
Author:  Imperi [ Mon Mar 15, 2010 9:38 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Benefits to US of Alliance w/ Israel
Rynar wrote:
No? The cost of cheap energy has nothing do do with our economy? Great analysis. :/


Israel doesn't control oil prices.
Author:  Rynar [ Mon Mar 15, 2010 9:41 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Benefits to US of Alliance w/ Israel
Imperi wrote:
Rynar wrote:
No? The cost of cheap energy has nothing do do with our economy? Great analysis. :/


Israel doesn't control oil prices.


If you can't find the connection between Israel and oil prices, then you need more history and economics than I am willing to give you. You have been pointed in the right direction, however.
Author:  Ladas [ Tue Mar 16, 2010 8:26 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Benefits to US of Alliance w/ Israel
RangerDave wrote:
Everyone knows the costs of the US alliance with Israel, but what are the benefits (to the US)? Leaving aside for a minute any moral arguments one way or the other, what do we gain in terms of tangible military, intelligence, trade, etc. benefits? Anyone know?

Arguing with those more liberal than you on other boards about the recent "spat" between WH and Israel?
Author:  RangerDave [ Tue Mar 16, 2010 9:39 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Benefits to US of Alliance w/ Israel
*chuckle* No, just been thinking about the issue. I think we need to maintain the alliance with Israel because it's a fellow democracy and we've made promises to it, but I often wonder what we get out of the deal.
Author:  Talya [ Tue Mar 16, 2010 10:41 am ]
Post subject: 
Lex may be the first ethnic Jew i've seen arguing against the US supporting Israel.
Author:  Lex Luthor [ Tue Mar 16, 2010 11:23 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Benefits to US of Alliance w/ Israel
Rynar wrote:
Imperi wrote:
Rynar wrote:
No? The cost of cheap energy has nothing do do with our economy? Great analysis. :/


Israel doesn't control oil prices.


If you can't find the connection between Israel and oil prices, then you need more history and economics than I am willing to give you. You have been pointed in the right direction, however.


In 2007, the U.S. gave 2.5 billion dollars in aid to Israel. I don't think your nebulous claims about Israel's current impact on oil prices justify this. I think that money could be better spent on buying oil and giving it to Americans.
Author:  Lex Luthor [ Tue Mar 16, 2010 11:29 am ]
Post subject:  Re:
Talya wrote:
Lex may be the first ethnic Jew i've seen arguing against the US supporting Israel.


If they want their sovereignty, then they shouldn't need annual aid. *shrug*
Author:  Diamondeye [ Tue Mar 16, 2010 11:36 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Benefits to US of Alliance w/ Israel
Lex Luthor wrote:
Rynar wrote:
If you can't find the connection between Israel and oil prices, then you need more history and economics than I am willing to give you. You have been pointed in the right direction, however.


In 2007, the U.S. gave 2.5 billion dollars in aid to Israel. I don't think your nebulous claims about Israel's current impact on oil prices justify this. I think that money could be better spent on buying oil and giving it to Americans.


Israel doesn't need to directly control oil prices. It just needs to exist as a threat to force oil prices down. If the oil-producing nations start trying to use oil prices as a weapon, or even raise them unreasonably, we might just start feeling less inclination to restrain Israel, or even encourage them to be a little more.. assertive with their military power.

Ironically, the only reason this works is the hostility the Arab/Muslim nations feel towards Israel in the first place. If they weren't in the habit of first starting wars with Israel and later funding proxies to keep antagonizing it, this wouldn't work. It also probably wouldn't be necessary, since if these nations were less bellicose towards Israel they'd probably be less of a pain in the *** in general terms.

However, since we'd end up spending 2.5 billion buying oil and giving it away under your plan we'd still end up spending the same amount of money. Worse, we'd be increasing our dependance on oil from that region proportionally, and disincentivising work to develop other sources of energy. Your ideas suck.
Author:  Diamondeye [ Tue Mar 16, 2010 11:38 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Re:
Lex Luthor wrote:
Talya wrote:
Lex may be the first ethnic Jew i've seen arguing against the US supporting Israel.


If they want their sovereignty, then they shouldn't need annual aid. *shrug*


They don't. They kicked the living **** out of the Arabs when no one was giving them any help at all. We do it because it gives us some control over their behavior, and therefore influence in a strategically important region.

This is what happens when people start thinking "I can just sit here and think about stuff without knowing all the facts, and my opinions are somehow then just as valid as those who HAVE tried to learn about the subject."
Author:  Lex Luthor [ Tue Mar 16, 2010 11:41 am ]
Post subject: 
I disagree that it's strategically important enough for $2.5 billion.
Author:  Diamondeye [ Tue Mar 16, 2010 11:44 am ]
Post subject:  Re:
Lex Luthor wrote:
I disagree that it's strategically important enough for $2.5 billion.


Then you're a **** idiot. Our economy runs on oil, as does our capacity for national defense. $2.5 billion is a trivial expense compared to the importance of favorable circumstances in that region.

In any case, like I said, you're still spending 2.5 billion to buy fuel instead with your alternative. It offers no tangible benefit.
Author:  DFK! [ Thu Mar 18, 2010 4:57 pm ]
Post subject: 
Isn't $2.5 billion like a month's profit to any one oil company?

Giving that much aid to Israel is nothing.
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