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Morons panic; cricticize U.S. pointlessly https://gladerebooted.net/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=2379 |
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Author: | Diamondeye [ Thu Mar 25, 2010 5:47 pm ] |
Post subject: | Morons panic; cricticize U.S. pointlessly |
Herald Scotland Quote: Hundreds of powerful US “bunker-buster” bombs are being shipped from California to the British island of Diego Garcia in the Indian Ocean in preparation for a possible attack on Iran. The Sunday Herald can reveal that the US government signed a contract in January to transport 10 ammunition containers to the island. According to a cargo manifest from the US navy, this included 387 “Blu” bombs used for blasting hardened or underground structures. Experts say that they are being put in place for an assault on Iran’s controversial nuclear facilities. There has long been speculation that the US military is preparing for such an attack, should diplomacy fail to persuade Iran not to make nuclear weapons. Although Diego Garcia is part of the British Indian Ocean Territory, it is used by the US as a military base under an agreement made in 1971. The agreement led to 2,000 native islanders being forcibly evicted to the Seychelles and Mauritius. The Sunday Herald reported in 2007 that stealth bomber hangers on the island were being equipped to take bunker-buster bombs. They are gearing up totally for the destruction of Iran Dan Plesch, director, Centre for International Studies and Diplomacy, University of London Although the story was not confirmed at the time, the new evidence suggests that it was accurate. Contract details for the shipment to Diego Garcia were posted on an international tenders’ website by the US navy. A shipping company based in Florida, Superior Maritime Services, will be paid $699,500 to carry many thousands of military items from Concord, California, to Diego Garcia. Crucially, the cargo includes 195 smart, guided, Blu-110 bombs and 192 massive 2000lb Blu-117 bombs. “They are gearing up totally for the destruction of Iran,” said Dan Plesch, director of the Centre for International Studies and Diplomacy at the University of London, co-author of a recent study on US preparations for an attack on Iran. “US bombers are ready today to destroy 10,000 targets in Iran in a few hours,” he added. The preparations were being made by the US military, but it would be up to President Obama to make the final decision. He may decide that it would be better for the US to act instead of Israel, Plesch argued. “The US is not publicising the scale of these preparations to deter Iran, tending to make confrontation more likely,” he added. “The US ... is using its forces as part of an overall strategy of shaping Iran’s actions.” According to Ian Davis, director of the new independent thinktank, Nato Watch, the shipment to Diego Garcia is a major concern. “We would urge the US to clarify its intentions for these weapons, and the Foreign Office to clarify its attitude to the use of Diego Garcia for an attack on Iran,” he said. For Alan Mackinnon, chair of Scottish CND, the revelation was “extremely worrying”. He stated: “It is clear that the US government continues to beat the drums of war over Iran, most recently in the statements of Secretary of State, Hillary Clinton. “It is depressingly similar to the rhetoric we heard prior to the war in Iraq in 2003.” The British Ministry of Defence has said in the past that the US government would need permission to use Diego Garcia for offensive action. It has already been used for strikes against Iraq during the 1991 and 2003 Gulf wars. About 50 British military staff are stationed on the island, with more than 3,200 US personnel. Part of the Chagos Archipelago, it lies about 1,000 miles from the southern coasts of India and Sri Lanka, well placed for missions to Iran. The US Department of Defence did not respond to a request for a comment. Yes, 10,000 targets in a few hours and the "total destruction of Iran"! In other words, lets take the word of a few unspecified "experts", and a few other **** who go into hystrionics over anything and everything the U.S. does because some bombs are being moved. After all, it's the U.S.! They must be doing something dastardly and underhanded and getting ready to attack the Iranian nuclear program without the permission of the wise and charitable Europeans... Oh.. wait [url]http://www.worldtribune.com/worldtribune/WTARC/2010/me_israel0217_03_18.asp]World Tribune[/url] Quote: WASHINGTON — The United States has diverted a shipment of bunker-busters designated for Israel. ShareThis Officials said the U.S. military was ordered to divert a shipment of smart bunker-buster bombs from Israel to a military base in Diego Garcia. They said the shipment of 387 smart munitions had been slated to join pre-positioned U.S. military equipment in Israel Air Force bases. "This was a political decision," an official said. In 2008, the United States approved an Israeli request for bunker-busters capable of destroying underground facilities, including Iranian nuclear weapons sites. Officials said delivery of the weapons was held up by the administration of President Barack Obama, Middle East Newsline reported. Since taking office, Obama has refused to approve any major Israeli requests for U.S. weapons platforms or advanced systems. Officials said this included proposed Israeli procurement of AH-64D Apache attack helicopters, refueling systems, advanced munitions and data on a stealth variant of the F-15E. "All signs indicate that this will continue in 2010," a congressional source familiar with the Israeli military requests said. "This is really an embargo, but nobody talks about it publicly." Under the plan, the U.S. military was to have stored 195 BLU-110 and 192 BLU-117 munitions in unspecified air force bases in Israel. The U.S. military uses four Israeli bases for the storage of about $400 million worth of pre-positioned equipment meant for use by either Washington or Jerusalem in any regional war. In January 2010, the administration agreed to an Israeli request to double the amount of U.S. military stockpiles to $800 million. Officials said the bunker-busters as well as Patriot missile interceptors were included in the agreement. The decision to divert the BLU munitions was taken amid the crisis between Israel and the United States over planned construction of Jewish homes in Jerusalem. The administration, including Secretary of State Hillary Clinton, has warned that Washington could reduce military aid to Israel because of its construction policy. In 2007, after its war in Lebanon, Israel requested 2,000 BLU-109 live bombs from the United States. The 2,000-pound bomb, produced by Boeing and coupled with a laser guidance kit, was designed to penetrate concrete bunkers and other underground hardened sites. Israeli ambassador to the United States, Michael Oren, was quoted as saying that his country faced its biggest crisis with the United States since 1975. A pro-Israel lobbyist said Oren was referring to the current U.S. embargo, which echoed a decision taken 35 years ago by then-President Gerald Ford after Israel's refusal to withdraw from Egypt's Sinai Peninsula. Oren has since denied the remark. Turns out they were going to Israel and now they aren't, so they're being moved to Diego Garcia. And somehow we're going to knock out 10,000 targets ith 387 bombs. Of course, Diego Garcia is near Iran, but the fact of the matter is that the mere presence of munitions at that base doesn't call for "ZOMG THE U.S. IS COMING!" panic. The real point is simply to have something to complain about in regard to the U.S. Never mind that it's a different administration now and the "Axis of Evil" speech was 8 years ago; we can't have anyone think the Americans aren't going to attack Iran tomorrow. |
Author: | Lydiaa [ Thu Mar 25, 2010 5:59 pm ] |
Post subject: | |
"You don't kill me, I kill me!" |
Author: | Corolinth [ Thu Mar 25, 2010 9:06 pm ] |
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This is why we should pull our military back into U.S. borders. These **** wouldn't have the U.S. military to throw shitfits about, and would go back to fighting each other. |
Author: | Diamondeye [ Thu Mar 25, 2010 9:39 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: |
Corolinth wrote: This is why we should pull our military back into U.S. borders. These **** wouldn't have the U.S. military to throw shitfits about, and would go back to fighting each other. If you like magic solutions to complex problems, sure. Our economy depends on international trade, oil, and strategic minerals. All of those things have to be guarded, which means guarding the people we trade with or the places those things come from. |
Author: | Corolinth [ Thu Mar 25, 2010 10:56 pm ] |
Post subject: | |
I actually meant letting the Europeans go back to fighting each other. |
Author: | Rynar [ Fri Mar 26, 2010 12:46 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: |
Corolinth wrote: I actually meant letting the Europeans go back to fighting each other. I dunno, I suppose I prefer most of our professional soldiers to be out of country with a portion of the governments weapons when we start fighting amongst ourselves. |
Author: | Diamondeye [ Fri Mar 26, 2010 6:57 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: |
Corolinth wrote: I actually meant letting the Europeans go back to fighting each other. Oh. Well, that would be hilarious. |
Author: | Hopwin [ Fri Mar 26, 2010 7:00 am ] |
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Wouldn't it be fascinating if we were going to use those bombs in one country to the right of Iran? Some country with vast networks of caves and hardened bunkers in some sort of mountain range? Oh well thank God that possibility is off the table. |
Author: | Diamondeye [ Fri Mar 26, 2010 7:10 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: Re: |
Rynar wrote: Corolinth wrote: I actually meant letting the Europeans go back to fighting each other. I dunno, I suppose I prefer most of our professional soldiers to be out of country with a portion of the governments weapons when we start fighting amongst ourselves. Most of them are actually not out of the country. Despite focus on "bases" that inflates the number by counting each piddly combat outpost in Iraq and Afghanistan as a "base", the vast bulk of our actual troops are here in the U.S., especially since our National Guard and Reserves are all pretty professional when compared to the rest of the world, and now have plenty of combat experience. For example, of active Army forces 38 Brigade Combat Teams and 2 cavlary regiments are based within the U.S., 1 BCT is in Korea, 2 BCTs and 1 cavalry regiment are in Germany, and 1 BCT is in Italy. In any case, if there were any sort of widespread unrest here in the U.S. there would not be a nice neat division of "the government/the military" and "the people". All of the people who make up the government and the military are also citizens. By the same token, not all citizens are going to be in agreement with whoever is causing unrest. |
Author: | Ladas [ Fri Mar 26, 2010 9:45 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: Morons panic; cricticize U.S. pointlessly |
Diamondeye wrote: Since taking office, Obama has refused to approve any major Israeli requests for U.S. weapons platforms or advanced systems. Officials said this included proposed Israeli procurement of AH-64D Apache attack helicopters, refueling systems, advanced munitions and data on a stealth variant of the F-15E. "All signs indicate that this will continue in 2010," a congressional source familiar with the Israeli military requests said. "This is really an embargo, but nobody talks about it publicly." Honestly, this is the most interesting part of both articles. Combine that with the furor caused by some of Obama's comments during his victory tour, the recent issues with Biden and Clinton on Israel, and now this "snub"... it paints an interesting picture of his middle eastern policy. |
Author: | Screeling [ Fri Mar 26, 2010 10:02 am ] |
Post subject: | |
Man, that's one heck of a snub to Israel. I pretty much expected this, though. |
Author: | Taskiss [ Fri Mar 26, 2010 10:06 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: Morons panic; cricticize U.S. pointlessly |
Ladas wrote: Diamondeye wrote: Since taking office, Obama has refused to approve any major Israeli requests for U.S. weapons platforms or advanced systems. Officials said this included proposed Israeli procurement of AH-64D Apache attack helicopters, refueling systems, advanced munitions and data on a stealth variant of the F-15E. "All signs indicate that this will continue in 2010," a congressional source familiar with the Israeli military requests said. "This is really an embargo, but nobody talks about it publicly." Honestly, this is the most interesting part of both articles. Combine that with the furor caused by some of Obama's comments during his victory tour, the recent issues with Biden and Clinton on Israel, and now this "snub"... it paints an interesting picture of his middle eastern policy. I'm willing to bet a weeks pay that consequences - a backlash of criticism from the Jewish community - will be characterized during the next presidential election as Jewish racism. |
Author: | Beryllin [ Fri Mar 26, 2010 10:26 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: Morons panic; cricticize U.S. pointlessly |
It looks to me like even our allies cannot trust Obama. Color me surprised. Funny thing will be when he alienates Israel but then finds that the radical Muslims still hate us... Maybe that's the peace plan, give Arabs and Israel a common enemy to unite against...... |
Author: | Wwen [ Sat Mar 27, 2010 10:44 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: |
Corolinth wrote: I actually meant letting the Europeans go back to fighting each other. I often wonder if we did away with the mercenary recruiting and retention programs how many people would think it's a worth it. With the phalanx constantly deployed overseas, American citizens can't even tell their country is in a constant state of war while they go about their normal lives. I'd bet that if the only rewards were "protecting freedom and democracy around the world" instead of retirement, reliable work, and other benefits, the human resources for our warfare state would be substantially diminished. |
Author: | Diamondeye [ Sat Mar 27, 2010 5:30 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: Re: |
Wwen wrote: Corolinth wrote: I actually meant letting the Europeans go back to fighting each other. I often wonder if we did away with the mercenary recruiting and retention programs how many people would think it's a worth it. With the phalanx constantly deployed overseas, American citizens can't even tell their country is in a constant state of war while they go about their normal lives. I'd bet that if the only rewards were "protecting freedom and democracy around the world" instead of retirement, reliable work, and other benefits, the human resources for our warfare state would be substantially diminished. Since we don't have a "warfare state" and the continuous state of war is forced on us by the simple fact that we are a large country with a modern economy, it really doesn't matter. The idea that we can just pull everything back to the U.S. and the world will be just hunky dory is sheer nonsense. |
Author: | Rynar [ Sat Mar 27, 2010 5:36 pm ] |
Post subject: | |
An empire, which we are, is necessarily a warfare state. The problems that give rise to our military interventions around the world are generally caused by our own willingness to dabble in the affairs of otherwise sovereign nations to protect or further "American interests" around the globe. "Empire requires maintenence." |
Author: | Diamondeye [ Sat Mar 27, 2010 6:36 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: |
Rynar wrote: An empire, which we are, is necessarily a warfare state. The problems that give rise to our military interventions around the world are generally caused by our own willingness to dabble in the affairs of otherwise sovereign nations to protect or further "American interests" around the globe. "Empire requires maintenence." We're only an empire by virtue of being a physically large nation in terms of both population and land area. Furthermore, "warfare state" is simply predjudicial language. Our country is not built around or centered around warfare. The problems that give rise to our military interventions are not caused by those same interventions, dabbling, or whatever you want to call it. They're caused by the simple fact that different nations have different interests. We're not the only nation that "dabbles"; the world is not simple a collection of soverign nations that all get along just fine aside from American "dabbling." If we stopped "dabbling" we wouldn't have any less problems; we'd just replace our current problems with an entirely new set. Sovereignty is really just a recognition of a nation by other nations as another entity they will recognize as such. It's not a magical protection; there is no reason other than dogma why a nation's "sovereignty" should protect it from action by another when it takes action that is detrimental in the perception of the other nation. If we "dabbled" less you'd just see other nations "dabbling" more in our place. The only reason we get so much attention is that we have more physical ability to do things. The idea that America is special or unique in terms of its interactions with other nations is a fiction; the special and unique nations are places like Iceland, New Zealand and Switzerland and a few others for whom geography and other unique circumstances allow them the luxury of removal from most world politics. |
Author: | Rynar [ Sat Mar 27, 2010 8:05 pm ] |
Post subject: | |
No, we are an empire in function, as sure as Britain was before us. |
Author: | Diamondeye [ Sat Mar 27, 2010 8:35 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: |
Rynar wrote: No, we are an empire in function, as sure as Britain was before us. No, we're really not, especially if that's your basis of comparison. Compared to Britain (or any European Colonial power of that era) we exercise an incredibly light touch. In any case, we're not literally an Empire regardless since we do not have a monarchial government. You're trying to apply the label "empire" based on other factors which make us similar to an empire. It's really pretty irrelevant though. Whether we are or are not an empire isn't really important since there is nothing that makes all empires alike, or even necessarily similar. It's the same thing as when Monty tries to get the label "terrorist" applied to someone from a group he doesn't like. Whether or not we can squeeze them into the definition of terrorist isn't important. Not all terrorists are created equal. |
Author: | Rynar [ Sat Mar 27, 2010 9:33 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: Morons panic; cricticize U.S. pointlessly |
On a technichal point, you are correct, we do not have a monarch. We do, however, have a heavily centralized government, in addition one can argue that we have a dictatorship. If what we have is not an empire based on the technical differences, then it is certainly close enogh to one in most other aspects to warrant comparison to a hedgemonic empire. |
Author: | Adrak [ Sat Mar 27, 2010 9:56 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: Morons panic; cricticize U.S. pointlessly |
Yes morons "criticize" pointlessly. Others act on issues. |
Author: | Wwen [ Sat Mar 27, 2010 10:12 pm ] |
Post subject: | |
If we could convince less people to join the military, perhaps we could weaken the strangle hold of the military industrial complex, that's all I'm saying. I wouldn't even try to convince DE that all our fighting and garrisons around the globe aren't necessary. He has to believe in it. Isn't he an officer? |
Author: | Adrak [ Sat Mar 27, 2010 10:19 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: |
Wwen wrote: I wouldn't even try to convince DE that all our fighting and garrisons around the globe aren't necessary. He has to believe in it. Isn't he an officer? One of my 2 fav dog-faces at the moment as far as I know. |
Author: | Adrak [ Sat Mar 27, 2010 10:28 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: Morons panic; cricticize U.S. pointlessly |
And here's some pointless criticism. 10 Billion wasted at Yucca Valley, 40 Billion this year to NIH, who by the way is making the Dept of Energy look foolish. |
Author: | Diamondeye [ Sat Mar 27, 2010 11:02 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: Morons panic; cricticize U.S. pointlessly |
Rynar wrote: On a technichal point, you are correct, we do not have a monarch. We do, however, have a heavily centralized government, in addition one can argue that we have a dictatorship. Our government is not that heavily centralized by way of historical comparison, nor do we have anything approaching a "dictatorship". "The government doing things some people don't like" is not a dictatorship. Quote: If what we have is not an empire based on the technical differences, then it is certainly close enogh to one in most other aspects to warrant comparison to a hedgemonic empire. Like I said, who cares what label applies to it? Ok, a "hegemonic empire"; that's still a vague term that could encompass a lot of things and really tells us nothing useful. |
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