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Something for the Birthers https://gladerebooted.net/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=2532 |
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Author: | Uncle Fester [ Mon Apr 05, 2010 12:28 pm ] |
Post subject: | Something for the Birthers |
http://www.thefoxnation.com/birthers/20 ... ntry-video In his home country of Kenya I love when they feed the crazies. |
Author: | Vindicarre [ Mon Apr 05, 2010 12:52 pm ] |
Post subject: | |
Take the whole "birther" thing out of it, and it is very troubling that she/they consider Kenya to be his "home country". |
Author: | Rorinthas [ Mon Apr 05, 2010 1:52 pm ] |
Post subject: | |
Anyone still have the beating dead horse smiley? |
Author: | Khross [ Mon Apr 05, 2010 2:04 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: Something for the Birthers |
Rorinthas: The problem is that it's not a dead horse. Regardless of where he was born or when (and I really have little if any reason to believe he was not born in Hawaii), Obama's legal response to this situation has created a few horrendous precedents. |
Author: | Rorinthas [ Mon Apr 05, 2010 5:16 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: Something for the Birthers |
As we have discussed over and over again, hense the call for dead horse. |
Author: | Xequecal [ Mon Apr 05, 2010 6:53 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: Something for the Birthers |
Khross wrote: Rorinthas: The problem is that it's not a dead horse. Regardless of where he was born or when (and I really have little if any reason to believe he was not born in Hawaii), Obama's legal response to this situation has created a few horrendous precedents. To be perfectly honest, this is the courts' fault, not Obama's. Obama and/or his lawyer's number one priority is to get the case dismissed with a minimum of time and expense. If you can get a summary dismissal by claiming the plaintiff has no standing, you'd be an idiot not to go for it. Why should you expect Obama to voluntarily spend time bogged down in court, deliberately handicapping his own trial defense? |
Author: | Rynar [ Mon Apr 05, 2010 9:43 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: Something for the Birthers |
Xequecal wrote: Khross wrote: Rorinthas: The problem is that it's not a dead horse. Regardless of where he was born or when (and I really have little if any reason to believe he was not born in Hawaii), Obama's legal response to this situation has created a few horrendous precedents. To be perfectly honest, this is the courts' fault, not Obama's. Obama and/or his lawyer's number one priority is to get the case dismissed with a minimum of time and expense. If you can get a summary dismissal by claiming the plaintiff has no standing, you'd be an idiot not to go for it. Why should you expect Obama to voluntarily spend time bogged down in court, deliberately handicapping his own trial defense? Fine and dandy if infact President Obama was acting as a private citizen. However, he isn't. The issue isn't about one specific administration or office holder, it is about establishing legal precedent surrounding the interpretation of a document that all presidents must take an oath to uphold. |
Author: | Xequecal [ Mon Apr 05, 2010 10:23 pm ] |
Post subject: | |
Except anyone, even a private citizen, can establish Constitutional precedent in a trial. None of them are under any obligation to structure their defense in order to preserve tenets of the Constitution. That's the courts' job. You can motion that the case be dismissed for any crazy reason you can think of. It's up to the court to affirm or deny as appropriate. Why should Obama be different? He wasn't even President when that issue was decided in the courts, so you can't even use that as a reason. |
Author: | Rynar [ Mon Apr 05, 2010 10:53 pm ] |
Post subject: | |
He was bound by his senatorial oath: Quote: I do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I take this obligation freely, without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion; and that I will well and faithfully discharge the duties of the office on which I am about to enter: So help me God.
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Author: | Xequecal [ Mon Apr 05, 2010 10:56 pm ] |
Post subject: | |
He's not violating the Constitution by making a motion in a court of law. In fact by doing so he's actually asking the court if his position is legal and Constitutional. They're the ones who affirmed it. |
Author: | Rynar [ Mon Apr 05, 2010 10:59 pm ] |
Post subject: | |
Your assumption that only the courts are supposed to make determinations about the Constitution is the flaw in your argument. |
Author: | Xequecal [ Mon Apr 05, 2010 11:14 pm ] |
Post subject: | |
It is only the courts that get to make such determinations, because it is the same courts that would try people for violations of the Constitution. Since they're the only ones with the authority to actually punish anyone for violating the Constitution, their determination is the only one that matters. Sure, you can feel free not to vote for Obama because he made that motion. But he's not violating the Constitution, or at least not doing so in any way that matters in the real world. |
Author: | Rynar [ Mon Apr 05, 2010 11:34 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: |
Xequecal wrote: It is only the courts that get to make such determinations, because it is the same courts that would try people for violations of the Constitution. Since they're the only ones with the authority to actually punish anyone for violating the Constitution, their determination is the only one that matters. Bare assertion. What is the purpose of the oath if the oath isn't relevant to anything? Quote: Sure, you can feel free not to vote for Obama because he made that motion. But he's not violating the Constitution, or at least not doing so in any way that matters in the real world. Sometimes you just say **** without thinking it through, don't you. |
Author: | Screeling [ Tue Apr 06, 2010 9:27 am ] |
Post subject: | |
So the First Lady is a Birther? |
Author: | Leshani [ Tue Apr 06, 2010 6:42 pm ] |
Post subject: | |
or knows the truth. (Tinfoil) |
Author: | Xequecal [ Tue Apr 06, 2010 9:18 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: Re: |
Rynar wrote: Bare assertion. What is the purpose of the oath if the oath isn't relevant to anything? The oath has whatever meaning the courts say it has. That's just how it works. Any promise is just meaningless words until someone with authority decides to hold you to them. if you want to hold him to a different standard and not vote for him, then that's your choice. But you can't say he violated the Constitution, when the courts, whose job it is to police this, say he hasn't. |
Author: | Elmarnieh [ Tue Apr 06, 2010 11:04 pm ] |
Post subject: | |
Given that the courts have contradicted themselves multiple times, holding them as the standard as to what the Constitution says (instead of say - reading it) is illogical. |
Author: | Rynar [ Tue Apr 06, 2010 11:37 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: Re: |
Xequecal wrote: Rynar wrote: Bare assertion. What is the purpose of the oath if the oath isn't relevant to anything? The oath has whatever meaning the courts say it has. That's just how it works. Any promise is just meaningless words until someone with authority decides to hold you to them. if you want to hold him to a different standard and not vote for him, then that's your choice. But you can't say he violated the Constitution, when the courts, whose job it is to police this, say he hasn't. Appeal to authority. No. It doesn't. Do you have any arguments not rooted in logical fallacy to make? |
Author: | darksiege [ Wed Apr 07, 2010 2:48 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: Something for the Birthers |
Wikipedia wrote: Eligibility Article II, Section 1, Clause 5 of the Constitution sets the principal qualifications one must meet to be eligible to the office of president. A president must: be a natural born citizen of the United States;[8] be at least thirty-five years old; have been a permanent resident in the United States for at least fourteen years. A person who meets the above qualifications is still disqualified from holding the office of president under any of the following conditions: Under the Twenty-second Amendment, no eligible person can be elected president more than twice. The Twenty-second Amendment also specifies that if any eligible person who serves as president or acting president for more than two years of a term for which some other eligible person was elected president, the former can only be elected president once. Scholars disagree whether anyone no longer eligible to be elected president could be elected vice president, pursuant to the qualifications set out under the Twelfth Amendment.[9] Under Article I, Section 3, Clause 7, upon conviction in impeachment cases the Senate has the option of disqualifying convicted individuals from holding other federal offices, including the Presidency.[10] Under Section 3 of the Fourteenth Amendment, the Constitution prohibits an otherwise eligible person from becoming president if that person swore an oath to support the Constitution, and later rebelled against the United States. However, the Congress, by a two-thirds vote of each house, can remove the disqualification. The ***** says 14-16 seconds into this video that he went to his home country of Kenya... not even "the motherland" of Africa.... [youtube]dBJihJBePcs[/youtube] I do not know when the initial video was filmed... but she straight outed him in this video. |
Author: | Diamondeye [ Wed Apr 07, 2010 8:23 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: Re: |
Rynar wrote: Xequecal wrote: Rynar wrote: Bare assertion. What is the purpose of the oath if the oath isn't relevant to anything? The oath has whatever meaning the courts say it has. That's just how it works. Any promise is just meaningless words until someone with authority decides to hold you to them. if you want to hold him to a different standard and not vote for him, then that's your choice. But you can't say he violated the Constitution, when the courts, whose job it is to police this, say he hasn't. Appeal to authority. No. It doesn't. Do you have any arguments not rooted in logical fallacy to make? He's not appealing to authority. The question of whether someone has violated a legal obligation or not is decided by the courts. Someone else's assertion that "He has, regardless fo what the courts say" is an appeal to their own authority of which they have none. It's just like if I tell my daughter "You're not allowed to go 4-wheeling because I think it's too unsafe". It's too unsafe because the threshold of acceptable safety in my household is decided by me (and my wife). Her argument that "but it is safe" is an appeal to her own authority - which doesn't exist. It is not an Appeal to Authority to rely on authority to answer a question whose factual nature is determined by authority. |
Author: | Elmarnieh [ Wed Apr 07, 2010 11:24 am ] |
Post subject: | |
No DE, truth is not determined by authority - it is determined by what is. |
Author: | Diamondeye [ Wed Apr 07, 2010 12:41 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: |
Elmarnieh wrote: No DE, truth is not determined by authority - it is determined by what is. When "what is" is a question whose answer is determined by authority those things are one and the same. When speaking of a question of observable fact i.e. How much energy does it take to accelerate a given mass by a given amount, no the answer is not determined by authority, although we can consult an authority to perform the appropriate observations for us. However political matters nad questions of guilt or innocence are only questions of observeable fact in the sense that we can observe that a person did or did not perform a given action. The legal status of that action as it relates to law is determined by an authority: a judge, a magistrate, a jury, etc. If, for example, you go shoot someone and are charged with murder and a jury finds you not guilty, then you did not commit murder. Period. It would be an appeal to authority to say you did not kill anyone because the jury found you not guilty. It would NOT be an appeal to autority to say you are not a murderer because you were found not guilty. The "what is" of you being a murderer is determiend by their verdict. |
Author: | Rynar [ Wed Apr 07, 2010 12:45 pm ] |
Post subject: | |
When that authority was usurped, and is illigitimate, they are not. |
Author: | Squirrel Girl [ Wed Apr 07, 2010 1:20 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: Something for the Birthers |
Found this video yesterday and yall beat me to it. /popcorn |
Author: | Diamondeye [ Wed Apr 07, 2010 1:28 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: |
Rynar wrote: When that authority was usurped, and is illigitimate, they are not. Usurped according to who? |
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