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They Know Who You Are
https://gladerebooted.net/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=2803		 Page 1 of 2
Author:  Vindicarre [ Mon May 03, 2010 5:28 pm ]
Post subject:  They Know Who You Are
[youtube]H2un7emwP_0[/youtube]

I can't believe they would be so full of hubris as to do this!

Government big enough to supply everything you need is big enough to take everything you have ... The course of history shows that as a government grows, liberty decreases. - Jefferson
Author:  Müs [ Mon May 03, 2010 5:35 pm ]
Post subject: 
0.0
Author:  Diamondeye [ Mon May 03, 2010 7:12 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: They Know Who You Are
Since we all know PA can launch spy satellites.

Seriously, where is this from? Did they actually make this or did someone fabricate it? This is just asking to get kicked in the nuts in the press.
Author:  Vindicarre [ Mon May 03, 2010 7:30 pm ]
Post subject: 
Pennsylvania Dept of Revenue
The link to the TV ad is here:
Quote:
Advertising Materials
Watch Television Commercial
We Know Who You Are
Author:  Squirrel Girl [ Tue May 04, 2010 12:51 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: They Know Who You Are
...
Author:  Aizle [ Tue May 04, 2010 1:01 pm ]
Post subject: 
Do do folks think that tax evaders shouldn't be tracked down?

I'm reserving comment on the actual layout/presentation of the ad for the moment.
Author:  Vindicarre [ Tue May 04, 2010 1:06 pm ]
Post subject: 
Sadly, the entire point is that the government now finds it suitable to announce to us that we are living in an Orwellian police state and that they are watching us. Using this sort of intimidation tactic is the epitome of government gone too far.
Author:  Diamondeye [ Tue May 04, 2010 1:07 pm ]
Post subject:  Re:
Vindicarre wrote:
Sadly, the entire point is that the government now finds it suitable to announce to us that we are living in an Orwellian police state and that we are all being monitored.


Actually that would be the PA government.
Author:  Vindicarre [ Tue May 04, 2010 1:08 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Re:
Diamondeye wrote:
Vindicarre wrote:
Sadly, the entire point is that the government now finds it suitable to announce to us that we are living in an Orwellian police state and that we are all being monitored.


Actually that would be the PA government.


No ****? Really? :lol:
Author:  Diamondeye [ Tue May 04, 2010 1:11 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Re:
Vindicarre wrote:
Diamondeye wrote:
Vindicarre wrote:
Sadly, the entire point is that the government now finds it suitable to announce to us that we are living in an Orwellian police state and that we are all being monitored.


Actually that would be the PA government.


No ****? Really?


Yes really. When you say "the government" it implies you mean the Federal government, especially when you say "we", as you're not, as far as I know, a resident of Pennsylvania.

There's a bad habit around here of objecting to what state governments do because the federal government shouldn't do it, or otherwise conflating the two. I don't think the PA government should be doing this, but the fact is that it's not "the government" unless we all happen to become PA residents. Even then "the state government" would be more accurate. People use "the government" to refer to the Federal government as a matter of custom.
Author:  Vindicarre [ Tue May 04, 2010 1:47 pm ]
Post subject: 
They are "the government". I capitalize "government" when referring to the Federal Government. In that case I use "the Government" as a matter of custom.
Quote:
Government
- Capitalize the word “Government” when referring to the country’s Government or that of any foreign nation.
Example:
· Her Majesty’s Government
· Government responsibility
· Imperial Government
· on official Government business


If someone sees a conflation of federal and state in a thread specifically about state, then it's obvious where the fault lies.

Anyone who is acquainted with the PA campaign is subject to the intended message of the campaign, whether they are residents of PA, or not; hence my use of the word "we".

If you would prefer to question where this came from and the semantics of my posts, rather than the amazing level of audacity it takes to present this campaign, thats fine, I understand your reticence.
Author:  Aizle [ Tue May 04, 2010 1:48 pm ]
Post subject:  Re:
Vindicarre wrote:
Sadly, the entire point is that the government now finds it suitable to announce to us that we are living in an Orwellian police state and that they are watching us. Using this sort of intimidation tactic is the epitome of government gone too far.


You didn't answer my question.
Author:  Hopwin [ Tue May 04, 2010 1:51 pm ]
Post subject: 
I can't believe people would be dumb enough to think the government (or Government) does not know where you live unless you are off-the-grid.
Author:  Vindicarre [ Tue May 04, 2010 2:04 pm ]
Post subject: 
It's one thing for such to be understood, but for it to be presented in such a fashion shows that they believe they control us, not the other way around, and they are happy to let us know. I guess that only bothers myself and a few others.
Author:  Hopwin [ Tue May 04, 2010 2:10 pm ]
Post subject: 
So your problem is the explicit nature of the threat rather than the implicit nature?
Author:  Vindicarre [ Tue May 04, 2010 2:32 pm ]
Post subject: 
I've got a problem with the existence of the reality of governmental power; I'm aghast at their audacity.
Author:  Aizle [ Tue May 04, 2010 2:48 pm ]
Post subject:  Re:
Vindicarre wrote:
I've got a problem with the existence of the reality of governmental power; I'm aghast at their audacity.


So government should be powerless? What exactly do you think it would be able to do then?

And you still haven't answered my question.
Author:  Hopwin [ Tue May 04, 2010 2:49 pm ]
Post subject: 
Am I misreading, or did you state that you have a problem with the government possessing power?
Author:  Rynar [ Tue May 04, 2010 2:55 pm ]
Post subject:  Re:
Aizle wrote:
Do do folks think that tax evaders shouldn't be tracked down?

I'm reserving comment on the actual layout/presentation of the ad for the moment.


False dilemma.

I, for one, disagree with our methods of taxation.
Author:  Vindicarre [ Tue May 04, 2010 3:05 pm ]
Post subject: 
Hopwin, I have a problem with the level of power the government currently possesses, the reality of the situation. I apologize for the awful sentence I used to try to convey that sentiment.

Aizle:
I do my best to avoid participating in discussions in which the basis is a false dichotomy, especially when it wold obviously cause a massive deviation from my purpose for posting the topic.
Author:  Aizle [ Tue May 04, 2010 3:58 pm ]
Post subject: 
Fair enough that you don't want a derail.

However, how you and Rynar are coming off is that you don't feel that you should have to follow a law that you don't agree with. I believe that is wrongheaded in our society.
Author:  Rynar [ Tue May 04, 2010 4:07 pm ]
Post subject:  Re:
Aizle wrote:
Fair enough that you don't want a derail.

However, how you and Rynar are coming off is that you don't feel that you should have to follow a law that you don't agree with. I believe that is wrongheaded in our society.


Slavery was just?
Author:  Aizle [ Tue May 04, 2010 4:28 pm ]
Post subject: 
Fair point.

And an interesting connundrum. First, I would argue that the size/scope of the infringement is hugely different, but the core concept is the same.

So how do you deal with the need for society to have people basically follow the rules to survive as a society, with the fact that not everyone will like the rules or feel that they are just?

Should I go break into a liquor store and steal beer because I want to get it on Sunday but can't because of laws that I think are unjust? Should I stop paying taxes because I think we spend way too much on military spending? Should I go kill abortion doctors because I think they are killing babies?
Author:  Vindicarre [ Tue May 04, 2010 4:41 pm ]
Post subject: 
Aizle, true, I don't want a derail, but more importantly (as threads go where they will, not where I demand them to go), you asked a question that created a false dichotomy that would lead us nowhere.

I don't know if it should just be chalked up to you viewing the world in a radically different way than I do that causes you to assign positions to me that I've never stated. It may be that you think because I have this belief, or that belief that makes my positions have to follow a script that tells you "those people" think this, therefore ... or if you just want to argue about something that's easy for you.

Do you really think I have stated that government should be powerless? If not, why ask:
Quote:
So government should be powerless? What exactly do you think it would be able to do then?


My statement was about the reality] of governmental power; I know it wasn't the clearest of posts, but jumping from "reality" to "no" seems to be an attempt to paint me as asinine and clueless. I'm fully capable of doing that myself, but not if you don't give me the chance and assign me positions without my consent.
In any event, I ask you politely and sincerely to please respond to what I've posted, not what you "think" I mean.

If you would be so kind as to indulge me, please tell me what statement of mine led you to pose this:
Quote:
However, how you and Rynar are coming off is that you don't feel that you should have to follow a law that you don't agree with. I believe that is wrongheaded in our society.


If you even attempt to show me how the posts I've made would lead one to believe that I don't think I should pay taxes, or further, that I don't feel that I should have to follow any law I don't agree with, I'll be more than happy to give you my opinions on taxation, governmental power and the rule of law. Please use what I've [i]posted to show me.
Author:  darksiege [ Tue May 04, 2010 7:20 pm ]
Post subject: 
If it is the state government... I have less problems on it than if it were the fed.
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