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Don't be American on Cinco de Mayo
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Author:  Rynar [ Thu May 06, 2010 3:19 pm ]
Post subject:  Don't be American on Cinco de Mayo

http://www.nbcbayarea.com/news/local-beat/Students-Wearing-American-Flag-Shirts-Sent-Home-92945969.html

Quote:
Students Kicked Off Campus for Wearing American Flag Tees
Freedom of expression or cultural disrespect on Cinco de Mayo?
By GEORGE KIRIYAMA

On any other day at Live Oak High School in Morgan Hill, Daniel Galli and his four friends would not even be noticed for wearing T-shirts with the American flag. But Cinco de Mayo is not any typical day especially on a campus with a large Mexican American student population.

Galli says he and his friends were sitting at a table during brunch break when the vice principal asked two of the boys to remove American flag bandannas that they wearing on their heads and for the others to turn their American flag T-shirts inside out. When they refused, the boys were ordered to go to the principal's office.

"They said we could wear it on any other day," Daniel Galli said, "but today is sensitive to Mexican-Americans because it's supposed to be their holiday so we were not allowed to wear it today."

The boys said the administrators called their T-shirts "incendiary" that would lead to fights on campus.

"They said if we tried to go back to class with our shirts not taken off, they said it was defiance and we would get suspended," Dominic Maciel, Galli's friend, said.

The boys really had no choice, and went home to avoid suspension. They say they're angry they were not allowed to express their American pride. Their parents are just as upset, calling what happened to their children, "total nonsense."

"I think it's absolutely ridiculous," Julie Fagerstrom, Maciel's mom, said. "All they were doing was displaying their patriotic nature. They're expressing their individuality."

But to many Mexican-American students at Live Oak, this was a big deal. They say they were offended by the five boys and others for wearing American colors on a Mexican holiday.

"I think they should apologize cause it is a Mexican Heritage Day," Annicia Nunez, a Live Oak High student, said. "We don't deserve to be get disrespected like that. We wouldn't do that on Fourth of July."

As for an apology, the boys and their families say, 'fat chance.'

"I'm not going to apologize. I did nothing wrong," Galli said. "I went along with my normal day. I might have worn an American flag, but I'm an American and I'm proud to be an American."

The five boys and their families met with a Morgan Hill Unified School District official Wednesday night. The district and the school do not see eye-to-eye on the incident and released the following statement:


The district does not concur with the Live Oak High School administration's interpretation of either board or district policy related to these actions.
The boys will not be suspended and were allowed to return to school Thursday. We spotted one of them when he got to campus -- and, yes, he was sporting an American flag T-shirt.

Author:  Ladas [ Thu May 06, 2010 3:27 pm ]
Post subject: 

Yeah, I an article about this earlier, and wondered when it would show here up.

The funny thing... Cinco de Mayo isn't really celebrated in Mexico... its an "American holiday" (ie reason to drink). That is at least according to the two Mexican nationals that work here, one from Monterrey and one from closer to the US border.

Of course, I'm pretty sure I've seen July 4th celebration pictures from around the country with other national flags displayed...

Author:  Aizle [ Thu May 06, 2010 3:28 pm ]
Post subject: 

Why do I suspect that there's more to this than is being reported.

Author:  darksiege [ Thu May 06, 2010 3:30 pm ]
Post subject: 

I hate this bullshit. PC and cultural sensitivity have gone too far. This is not the first year they have been gone too far either.

I hope humans die off in a fire.

Aizle wrote:
Why do I suspect that there's more to this than is being reported.


Even if there is.. it is still too far. Last year, do we remember all of the bullshit from last year/more recently where all of the Mexican workers tried to threaten not to work on a mexican national holiday? Because we did not celebrate it in the US.

Author:  Ladas [ Thu May 06, 2010 3:31 pm ]
Post subject: 

Because there is Aizle. That part of that article that was quoted left out the name of the VP that did this (1 guess as to heritage of name) and the fact the school district has already released a statement stating they strive to discourage distractions that take away from the educational experience, but this action by this principal was not authorized by the district, and was contrary to their policy.

Author:  Rynar [ Thu May 06, 2010 3:31 pm ]
Post subject:  Re:

Aizle wrote:
Why do I suspect that there's more to this than is being reported.


This leads me to believe you haven't read the article in the OP.

The kids in questioln were plainly non-violent and non-combative, as they left school rather than be suspended, demonstrating a) that nothing had been done to instigate any sort of administrative respone prior, and b) that they were peacefully protesting.

Author:  Kaffis Mark V [ Thu May 06, 2010 3:38 pm ]
Post subject: 

"They're expressing their individuality."

By proclaiming their membership and adherence to a group?

I'm not criticizing their actions, but that's just an absolutely retarded commentary.

Author:  Aizle [ Thu May 06, 2010 3:46 pm ]
Post subject: 

No I didn't, because it appeared that the whole article was quoted.

I'm suspicious that 5 buddies just happened to decide to wear american flag clothing on Cinco de Mayo. So that leads me to believe that it was the peaceful protest that you suggest, not the we could wear them on any other day thing the kids are stating. That was the more than reported part I was refering to.

I'll admit I'm a bit torn on this one. No reason they shouldn't be able to wear what they want, however if they were doing it to provoke the large number of mexican-americans there and being dicks about it, the schools primary function is to make sure they are getting educated, not enabling them to protest.

Author:  Lenas [ Thu May 06, 2010 3:51 pm ]
Post subject: 

Cinco de Mayo isn't even a celebrated Mexican holiday. My girlfriend grew up in Mexico City and she said people there don't give a **** about it.

It can't be a cultural sensitivity issue when it's an American celebration.

Edit - Sorry Ladas, jumped the gun and skipped your post.

Author:  Vindicarre [ Thu May 06, 2010 3:52 pm ]
Post subject: 

Rynar you have the wrong mindset. What's important is what other people perceive as cause to take offence, or an instigation, not the actions that actually occurred.

This is the topic of much conversation around these parts. My favorites are the people who make comments like:
"We don't wear the Mexican flag to school on July 4th."

Ummm, because school isn't in session then? Because this isn't Mexican Independance Day? It's a day when the Mexican Army defeated the French Army in a battle in a war that the Mexicans lost? It's a day that isn't even celebrated in the vast majority of Mexico?
I laugh at the fact that people get in a tizzy about cultural disrespect on "Corona Beer Day". Then again, removing the possibility of offending someone trumps all, I guess.

Author:  Rafael [ Thu May 06, 2010 4:35 pm ]
Post subject:  Re:

Aizle wrote:
Why do I suspect that there's more to this than is being reported.

Probably because if it were true at gave value, this article would indicate the extent to which liberal extremism is responsible for ridiculous decision making.

Even I'd they wore the shirts with the intention of being antagnostic, that's not a substantial action that is punishable within the context of the law or school policy. It's obvious because otherwise they would have invoked whatever infraction was applicable rather than cite some hamfisted and insubstantial claim of the shirts being "incinidiary".

Author:  Diamondeye [ Thu May 06, 2010 5:25 pm ]
Post subject:  Re:

Aizle wrote:
No I didn't, because it appeared that the whole article was quoted.

I'm suspicious that 5 buddies just happened to decide to wear american flag clothing on Cinco de Mayo. So that leads me to believe that it was the peaceful protest that you suggest, not the we could wear them on any other day thing the kids are stating. That was the more than reported part I was refering to.

I'll admit I'm a bit torn on this one. No reason they shouldn't be able to wear what they want, however if they were doing it to provoke the large number of mexican-americans there and being dicks about it, the schools primary function is to make sure they are getting educated, not enabling them to protest.


Then the real problem is with the Mexican-Americans that have a problem with it. This is the United **** States. There's no reason it should be offensive to a citizen of this country if another citizen wants to display the flag, in any way, on any day, for any reason. If you're not a **** citizen then you can shut the **** up. You don't see Irish people (like, you know, me) getting a case of the *** if someone wears an American flag on St. Patrick's day, or if they don't wear **** green.

You're right: The school's purpose is to educate. It is not to cater to little snots who feel they're somehow being "disrespected" by people wearing American flags. These kids didn't protest; they performed a community service by alerting the public that there is a moron running their elementary school.

Author:  Kaffis Mark V [ Thu May 06, 2010 11:07 pm ]
Post subject: 

Actually, I'm vaguely offended when people "wear the flag" as it were, because it's disrespectful and doesn't follow the U.S. flag code. Sadly, I think I'm in need of a cane to wave at the kids on my lawn on this issue, as our Olympic uniforms seem to tread nearer and nearer to this each, um, Olympics.

Author:  Wwen [ Thu May 06, 2010 11:15 pm ]
Post subject:  Re:

Kaffis Mark V wrote:


I'm not all that patriotic, but it always annoyed me when I lived in San Antonio and saw people with the little flags on their cars. Frequently they were all tattered and dirty. If I was going to have that **** on my car and be all patriotic, I'd at least replace them when they got torn...

Author:  Kaffis Mark V [ Thu May 06, 2010 11:27 pm ]
Post subject: 

Yeah, that's the other huge one.

Author:  Rynar [ Fri May 07, 2010 12:11 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Don't be American on Cinco de Mayo

The flags on the shits and bandannas are far more symbolic, as they generally don't meet the sizing standards, and more often than not don't meet current allocations of stars and stripes.

They are intended to represent support of an idea, rather than to try and imitate it.

Author:  Vindicarre [ Fri May 07, 2010 1:47 am ]
Post subject: 

As Rynar said, the flag code, when dealing with "wearing apparel", is referencing "the flag", not a shirt with a flag on it. i.e. It's disrespectful to use a flag as a shirt, but not to have a flag design on your shirt. I agree about the flags on cars though. I actually had a guy call me a "fascist" because I told him he was showing more disrespect than patriotism by abusing the fag on his antenna.

In other news, some of the Hispanic students staged a walk-out protest.

Quote:
MORGAN HILL, Calif. -- Tensions mounted at a Bay Area high school Thursday, a day after five students whipped up emotions by wearing t-shirts depicting red, white and blue American flags on Cinco de Mayo.
A group of 50-60 Latino students walked out of classes at Morgan Hill's Live Oak High early Thursday, marching to city hall and rallying to show their support for a school official.
That unidentified assistant principal had ordered the students who wore t-shirts with American flags on Cinco de Mayo to either go home or turn the shirts inside out.


I love how Assistant Principal Miguel Rodriguez is now "that unidentified assistant principal".
It seems to me that the crux of the situation is that Rodriguez was concerned that the sight of Americans wearing an American Flag on Cinco de Mayo would so incense the Hispanic students that they would become violent; ahhh how we love to protect those minorities from themselves.

Author:  darksiege [ Fri May 07, 2010 2:53 am ]
Post subject: 

**** that let the little **** get truancies for walking out of school.

Cocksuckers. DIAF

Author:  Rorinthas [ Fri May 07, 2010 6:46 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Don't be American on Cinco de Mayo

It does sound like a concerted effort, by a group of kids to be dicks.

That being said, the principal (who is supposed to be the adult in this situation) went way out of bounds and played right into their hands. I don't know what the school dress code is about head coverings (we were never allowed in the building). If the bandanas were a violation of that statute he could have asked them to remove them and dealt with them for noncomplience of hat policy.

Author:  Diamondeye [ Fri May 07, 2010 7:07 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Don't be American on Cinco de Mayo

The thing is though, that the only kids being dicks were the ones getting upset about the flags. Assuming the kids wearing the flags did know this would happen (which they probably did), they weren't being dicks, they were calling attention to someone else's dickery.

There's no reason we should avoid displays of patriotism just because a certain day happens to be important to another nation. If people from that nation want to fly a flag or whatever in honor of their culture on that day, fine, but don't pretend like anyone else is disrespecting you by showing an American flag. No, that does not mean people are being just as big a dick at getting angry with you if you fly some other country's flag on the Fourth of July; the Fourth of July is the national holiday for THIS **** COUNTRY. If you want to be in this country so **** bad, or are a citizen of this country, don't pretend like your country of origin is owed some special respect. You're entitled to your right of free speech; you're not entitled to prevent anyone else from exercising theres nor are you entitled to Freedom From Being Considered A Giagantic ***.

Author:  RangerDave [ Fri May 07, 2010 9:12 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Don't be American on Cinco de Mayo

Diamondeye wrote:
The thing is though, that the only kids being dicks were the ones getting upset about the flags. Assuming the kids wearing the flags did know this would happen (which they probably did), they weren't being dicks, they were calling attention to someone else's dickery. There's no reason we should avoid displays of patriotism just because a certain day happens to be important to another nation.


I would agree if the intent of the kids wearing the American flag was simply to express their own patriotism. Calling attention to someone else's dickery, though, is a sketchier proposition. There are times when it might be appropriate - a black man sitting at a "white's only" lunch counter, for instance. However, more often than not, it's just someone trying to provoke a response by being a douchebag - for instance, transvestites dressing up in flamboyant drag to attend Easter Mass as a means of "calling attention" to the Church's dickery towards homosexuals.

Basically, I think that even if you have a totally valid underlying point, being deliberately disrespectful and provocative is juvenile (and of course, therefore entirely predictable from a bunch of high school students who think they have some incredibly profound point to make).

All that said, the biggest douchebag in this story is still the vice-principal who kicked the kids out of school.

Author:  Rynar [ Fri May 07, 2010 9:18 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Don't be American on Cinco de Mayo

RD wrote:
I would agree if the intent of the kids wearing the American flag was simply to express their own patriotism. Calling attention to someone else's dickery, though, is a sketchier proposition. There are times when it might be appropriate - a black man sitting at a "white's only" lunch counter, for instance. However, more often than not, it's just someone trying to provoke a response by being a douchebag - for instance, transvestites dressing up in flamboyant drag to attend Easter Mass as a means of "calling attention" to the Church's dickery towards homosexuals.


The key difference being that in your example someone had to go out of there way to strategically locate themselves in a place they normally wouldn't have been, and attired themselves in a way they knew was in appropriate to their location. The kids referenced in the article were attending an American school, payed for with American tax dollars, located in America... and were even compelled to be there by an American government to study an American curriculum. I don't think they were doing anything even remotely inappropriate at all. A more apt comparison would be if people somehow worked up the audacity to wear a crucifix to a Catholic mass durring Ramadhan.

Author:  Micheal [ Fri May 07, 2010 9:27 am ]
Post subject:  Re:

Vindicarre wrote:
I actually had a guy call me a "fascist" because I told him he was showing more disrespect than patriotism by abusing the fag on his antenna.


Well, that in itself is a hate crime, you should have just called 911 when you saw him abusing the poor homosexual impaled on his antenna.

I do so love typos that change the meaning or intent entirely.

Back to the OT, the kids got what they wanted, attention and proof that the school district discourages American pride.

Author:  RangerDave [ Fri May 07, 2010 9:34 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Don't be American on Cinco de Mayo

Rynar wrote:
The key difference being that in your example someone had to go out of there way to strategically locate themselves in a place they normally wouldn't have been, and attired themselves in a way they knew was in appropriate to their location.


Aye, it's not a perfect analogy. I think the point is valid, though. There's a difference between shining a light on massive injustice and being an obnoxious sh*t-stirrer. High-school kids trying to piss off other high-school kids? Strikes me as the latter 9 times out of 10.

Author:  Rynar [ Fri May 07, 2010 9:37 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Don't be American on Cinco de Mayo

RangerDave wrote:
Rynar wrote:
The key difference being that in your example someone had to go out of there way to strategically locate themselves in a place they normally wouldn't have been, and attired themselves in a way they knew was in appropriate to their location.


Aye, it's not a perfect analogy. I think the point is valid, though. There's a difference between shining a light on massive injustice and being an obnoxious sh*t-stirrer. High-school kids trying to piss off other high-school kids? Strikes me as the latter 9 times out of 10.


It is OK to piss people off when you are right. When did we get to the point that not upsetting anyone else, regardless of the merits of their stance, is the highest standard you can hold yourself to? I outright reject that position.

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