The Glade 4.0

Somewhat inspired by reading about the changes being proposed for the next generation of school texts in Texas (some of which I agree, some seem absurd and short sighted), this was listed as one of the more contentious changes being proposed:



I'm sure this says something about my mindset that some would find problematic, but hypothetically, if I had to chose between those two, the second is a clear winner.

I saw that. Some of the standards were horrifying. Some were good. Another good one was the importance of the right to bear arms to a free society, or words to that effect. Sadly, I don't have a link.

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"Hysterical children shrieking about right-wing anything need to go sit in the corner and be quiet while the adults are talking."

Hmm. I started typing out that I agreed with you. But I'm starting to waffle a bit.

The first one actually implies everything in the second one, you just have to actually work out the logic yourself. The second one spells out things much more clearly, but is much more narrow than the first.

I like the first one better, but believe that the second one is going to be much more likely to have an impact. And that is a sad sad commentary.

I think both are useful, but incomplete. Good citizenship, to my mind, requires all of the above.

yeah that.

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I prefer to think of them as "Fighting evil in another dimension"

All of that and more really.

How?

Respect for others and personal responsibility aren't compatible with equality and the common good.

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Ezekiel 23:19-20 

That might or might not be true. Equality can mean equality before the law and equality of opportunity, not necessarily equality of outcome. Similarly, it says responsibility for the common good. That can mean personal responsibility towards your fellow man; it doesn't have to mean an organized attempt to boost the common good at the expense of the individual. Ideally, if people take enough personal responsibility for the common good, any attempt to organize the common good would be superfluous.

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"Hysterical children shrieking about right-wing anything need to go sit in the corner and be quiet while the adults are talking."

I think the fact that they chose to rewrite it lends itself to my interpretation.

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Ezekiel 23:19-20 

How are those things not compatible?

Who re-wrote what, and why would it lend itself to your interpretation? I think you're having a knee-jerk reaction to "common good".

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"Hysterical children shrieking about right-wing anything need to go sit in the corner and be quiet while the adults are talking."

Not true. These are very much compatible.

Equality can mean a lot of things. Some of them ought to be promoted by what I consider "good citizenship," many others shouldn't.

It's far too vague, and misinterpreting/misapplying "equality" is what has been driving this country into decline for decades.

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"Aaaah! Emotions are weird!" - Amdee
"... Mirrorshades prevent the forces of normalcy from realizing that one is crazed and possibly dangerous. They are the symbol of the sun-staring visionary, the biker, the rocker, the policeman, and similar outlaws." - Bruce Sterling, preface to Mirrorshades

Equality, as it has been understood in America for roughly fifty years, is the antithesis of personal responsibility. Personal responsibility means exactly what it says: being responsible for your own actions and decisions. As not all actions and decisions have equal merit, not all outcomes will be equal. Some outcomes will be outright poor, but if we are to have respect for others and personal responsibility, we won't take from one person, and give to another to achieve equality and protect people for the personal responsibility they must assume for their choices. Adding to that, the notion of the common good completely undermines any notion of personal responsibility as it assumes that we are all responsible for everyone's failures and also for everyone's successes, functionally freeing them from the consequences of their own actions, which is the definition of personal responsibility.

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Ezekiel 23:19-20 

That's a really sad outlook Rynar.

but unfortunately accurate

No, I disagree. Equality is not the antithesis of personal responsibility. In fact, equality is necessary for personal responsibility. You can't be responsible for your lot in life if someone actively prevents you from reaching your potential. Respect for others goes hand in hand with this. You cannot have equality if people do not respect other people's rights and freedoms. Respect for others also goes with personal responsibility. If you have respect for others, you will not want nor demand that they address your personal problems.

Respect for others supports the common good, as it is necessary for equality and a healthy ecomony/society.

Personal responsibility supports the common good, as it promotes fewer entitlement programs and wards of the state.

Your logic is flawed. First of all, equality and freedom are antonyms.

Secondly, you are applying two different standards to two different groups: those who pay taxes, and those who don't. While insisting that good citizenship involves personal responsibility, while in the same breath saying that it is in the interests of the common good (of the citizens I have to believe) to provide entitlement programs... for those who aren't taking personal responsibility.

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Ezekiel 23:19-20 

No they aren't. You're trying to domstrate this. You can't use the conclusion you're trying to reach as a reason for itself or why he's wrong.



He said no such thing.

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"Hysterical children shrieking about right-wing anything need to go sit in the corner and be quiet while the adults are talking."

Equality means sameness, upholding it as a virtue is to place not being different from anyone else on a pedestal. Freedom on the other hand places our differences and our sense of self on the pedestal, allowing us to engage in whatever our desires are to our own benefit or peril, whether they are the same as everyone's desires are or not. Equality enshrines a lack of individual choice, freedom an unlimited.



He absolutely did.

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Ezekiel 23:19-20 

Really? I mean you really believe this?

Hell, I'm the commie-pinko liberal left on these forums and I think you're smoking crack...

Offer an alternative definition.

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Ezekiel 23:19-20 

Equality in a political sense means that everyone is treated the same legally and has the same opportunities to make something (or not) out of their lives.

The problem is though, too many are not legislating toward equality of opportunity as you are suggesting but are demanding equality of outcome regardless of individual merit.

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The Dude abides.

Clearly all men are not created equal. It is observable that we are all very different from each other. Different skills and limitations, different likes and dislikes, different priorities and goals. And even if all men were created equal, we become unequal as soon as we make any diverging decision leading to a different outcome.

Equality and equality under the law (notice those 3 other words modifying the first) are two different things. Equality under the law means equality in the governments relationship to you (what with the government being the executive of the law). This means that the government can't have different laws for different groups of people, like different taxes, different prison sentences, or different benefits denied to others.

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Ezekiel 23:19-20