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Criminalizing Photography ... https://gladerebooted.net/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=3120 |
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Author: | Khross [ Thu Jun 03, 2010 1:44 pm ] |
Post subject: | Criminalizing Photography ... |
Sort of ... http://gizmodo.com/5553765/are-cameras-the-new-guns Quote: In response to a flood of Facebook and YouTube videos that depict police abuse, a new trend in law enforcement is gaining popularity. In at least three states, it is now illegal to record any on-duty police officer.
Even if the encounter involves you and may be necessary to your defense, and even if the recording is on a public street where no expectation of privacy exists. The legal justification for arresting the "shooter" rests on existing wiretapping or eavesdropping laws, with statutes against obstructing law enforcement sometimes cited. Illinois, Massachusetts, and Maryland are among the 12 states in which all parties must consent for a recording to be legal unless, as with TV news crews, it is obvious to all that recording is underway. Since the police do not consent, the camera-wielder can be arrested. Most all-party-consent states also include an exception for recording in public places where "no expectation of privacy exists" (Illinois does not) but in practice this exception is not being recognized. Massachusetts attorney June Jensen represented Simon Glik who was arrested for such a recording. She explained, "[T]he statute has been misconstrued by Boston police. You could go to the Boston Common and snap pictures and record if you want." Legal scholar and professor Jonathan Turley agrees, "The police are basing this claim on a ridiculous reading of the two-party consent surveillance law - requiring all parties to consent to being taped. I have written in the area of surveillance law and can say that this is utter nonsense." The courts, however, disagree. A few weeks ago, an Illinois judge rejected a motion to dismiss an eavesdropping charge against Christopher Drew, who recorded his own arrest for selling one-dollar artwork on the streets of Chicago. Although the misdemeanor charges of not having a peddler's license and peddling in a prohibited area were dropped, Drew is being prosecuted for illegal recording, a Class I felony punishable by 4 to 15 years in prison. In 2001, when Michael Hyde was arrested for criminally violating the state's electronic surveillance law - aka recording a police encounter - the Massachusetts Supreme Judicial Court upheld his conviction 4-2. In dissent, Chief Justice Margaret Marshall stated, "Citizens have a particularly important role to play when the official conduct at issue is that of the police. Their role cannot be performed if citizens must fear criminal reprisals…." (Note: In some states it is the audio alone that makes the recording illegal.) The selection of "shooters" targeted for prosecution do, indeed, suggest a pattern of either reprisal or an attempt to intimidate. Glik captured a police action on his cellphone to document what he considered to be excessive force. He was not only arrested, his phone was also seized. On his website Drew wrote, "Myself and three other artists who documented my actions tried for two months to get the police to arrest me for selling art downtown so we could test the Chicago peddlers license law. The police hesitated for two months because they knew it would mean a federal court case. With this felony charge they are trying to avoid this test and ruin me financially and stain my credibility." Hyde used his recording to file a harassment complaint against the police. After doing so, he was criminally charged. In short, recordings that are flattering to the police - an officer kissing a baby or rescuing a dog - will almost certainly not result in prosecution even if they are done without all-party consent. The only people who seem prone to prosecution are those who embarrass or confront the police, or who somehow challenge the law. If true, then the prosecutions are a form of social control to discourage criticism of the police or simple dissent. A recent arrest in Maryland is both typical and disturbing. On March 5, 24-year-old Anthony John Graber III's motorcycle was pulled over for speeding. He is currently facing criminal charges for a video he recorded on his helmet-mounted camera during the traffic stop. The case is disturbing because: 1) Graber was not arrested immediately. Ten days after the encounter, he posted some of he material to YouTube, and it embarrassed Trooper J. D. Uhler. The trooper, who was in plainclothes and an unmarked car, jumped out waving a gun and screaming. Only later did Uhler identify himself as a police officer. When the YouTube video was discovered the police got a warrant against Graber, searched his parents' house (where he presumably lives), seized equipment, and charged him with a violation of wiretapping law. 2) Baltimore criminal defense attorney Steven D. Silverman said he had never heard of the Maryland wiretap law being used in this manner. In other words, Maryland has joined the expanding trend of criminalizing the act of recording police abuse. Silverman surmises, "It's more [about] ‘contempt of cop' than the violation of the wiretapping law." 3) Police spokesman Gregory M. Shipley is defending the pursuit of charges against Graber, denying that it is "some capricious retribution" and citing as justification the particularly egregious nature of Graber's traffic offenses. Oddly, however, the offenses were not so egregious as to cause his arrest before the video appeared. Almost without exception, police officials have staunchly supported the arresting officers. This argues strongly against the idea that some rogue officers are overreacting or that a few cops have something to hide. "Arrest those who record the police" appears to be official policy, and it's backed by the courts. Carlos Miller at the Photography Is Not A Crime website offers an explanation: "For the second time in less than a month, a police officer was convicted from evidence obtained from a videotape. The first officer to be convicted was New York City Police Officer Patrick Pogan, who would never have stood trial had it not been for a video posted on Youtube showing him body slamming a bicyclist before charging him with assault on an officer. The second officer to be convicted was Ottawa Hills (Ohio) Police Officer Thomas White, who shot a motorcyclist in the back after a traffic stop, permanently paralyzing the 24-year-old man." When the police act as though cameras were the equivalent of guns pointed at them, there is a sense in which they are correct. Cameras have become the most effective weapon that ordinary people have to protect against and to expose police abuse. And the police want it to stop. Happily, even as the practice of arresting "shooters" expands, there are signs of effective backlash. At least one Pennsylvania jurisdiction has reaffirmed the right to video in public places. As part of a settlement with ACLU attorneys who represented an arrested "shooter," the police in Spring City and East Vincent Township adopted a written policy allowing the recording of on-duty policemen. As journalist Radley Balko declares, "State legislatures should consider passing laws explicitly making it legal to record on-duty law enforcement officials." Wendy McElroy is the author of several books on anarchism and feminism. She maintains the iconoclastic website ifeminists.net as well as an active blog at wendymcelroy.com. The author of this post can be contacted at tips@gizmodo.com |
Author: | Ladas [ Thu Jun 03, 2010 1:59 pm ] |
Post subject: | |
Completely and utterly retarded. |
Author: | Khross [ Thu Jun 03, 2010 2:03 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: Criminalizing Photography ... |
Ladas: Which part of it? |
Author: | Elmarnieh [ Thu Jun 03, 2010 2:04 pm ] |
Post subject: | |
1. String the judges up. 2. Have new cases heard. If new case results in same BS decision then repeat 1 else end. Yes this is how a police state grows. Awww ours is in its formative years. |
Author: | Khross [ Thu Jun 03, 2010 2:06 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: Criminalizing Photography ... |
In other stupid news ... http://www.daytondailynews.com/news/ohi ... 41192.html ... |
Author: | Elmarnieh [ Thu Jun 03, 2010 2:10 pm ] |
Post subject: | |
Yup, almost posted that yesterday. |
Author: | Leshani [ Thu Jun 03, 2010 2:15 pm ] |
Post subject: | |
On that basis I would have to say that the dash cams that are mounted in the police cars, would also be in violation of the law. |
Author: | Khross [ Thu Jun 03, 2010 2:17 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: |
Leshani wrote: On that basis I would have to say that the dash cams that are mounted in the police cars, would also be in violation of the law. Of course they aren't ... but how often do you hear about them being used to incriminate cops?
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Author: | Arathain Kelvar [ Thu Jun 03, 2010 2:27 pm ] |
Post subject: | |
What about security cameras on buildings that record portions of the street? |
Author: | Khross [ Thu Jun 03, 2010 2:28 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: Criminalizing Photography ... |
The cops will have access to those videos before your attorney |
Author: | Hopwin [ Thu Jun 03, 2010 2:44 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: Criminalizing Photography ... |
Khross wrote: Good lord this State gets more and more stupid every day. |
Author: | LadyKate [ Thu Jun 03, 2010 3:35 pm ] |
Post subject: | |
Wow. This is really disturbing....the future implications of this are really really really not good. |
Author: | Ladas [ Thu Jun 03, 2010 4:17 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: Criminalizing Photography ... |
Khross wrote: Which part of it?" All of it. Khross wrote: In other stupid news ... I'm torn on this one, since... 1) This is an established precedent, both from prior to the implementation of speed detection devices, and for charges such as "Driving too fast for conditions" where the posted speed limit might be deemed to fast at the subjective judgment of the officer. 2) This is essentially establishing a properly trained (ignoring the problems of such "certification" for a moment) police officer as an "expert" witness in a case, in which case, the case is your statement against an expert witness. Of course, this means the officer is subject to providing documentation of status or his testimony can be thrown out. 3) At the same time, with the tools available to provide a non-subjective/biased register of whether or not a law was broken, there isn't a lot of room in my opinion for this kind of subjective decision with the potential ramifications. For example, here there are different levels of punishment depending on the degree to which you are exceeding the speed limit, and while an officer might be able to judge relative speed, pinpointing that speed for determination of violation will be near impossible. Leshani wrote: On that basis I would have to say that the dash cams that are mounted in the police cars, would also be in violation of the law. Based on just the information in the article, that would be exactly the case, given that most areas use public domain as the justification for any kind of video surveillance, whether it is dash cams, security systems, etc. Khross wrote: Arathain Kelvar wrote: What about security cameras on buildings that record portions of the street? The cops will have access to those videos before your attorney One would hope that the companies in possession of the tapes would require a court order for the tapes. Of course, what makes this really special is that now burglars, using the limited amount of information in that article, can now sue when surveillance tape is used to prosecute. |
Author: | darksiege [ Thu Jun 03, 2010 4:42 pm ] |
Post subject: | |
I am now beginning to support Elmo's diatribe of execution for these police officers who support this. **** them and their abuse of power. **** their bosses, the organizations they work for, etc. They deserve to get caught in a firefight. |
Author: | Rafael [ Thu Jun 03, 2010 5:07 pm ] |
Post subject: | |
The news in this thread makes me feel like getting my dick pierced might be less painful than putting up with the growing stupidity in this country. |
Author: | GTO [ Thu Jun 03, 2010 7:03 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: Criminalizing Photography ... |
That's horrifying, the response of the police in these places to their own abuse is to go after the people exposing it? Land of the free my ***. |
Author: | Diamondeye [ Thu Jun 03, 2010 7:20 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: Criminalizing Photography ... |
The article is horribl written, and presents the alleged cases of police "abuse" as one-sided assertions by people with exceedingly questionable stories. For example, the guy that was supposedly pulled over by a guy in an unmarked car not wearing a uniform, while of duty. Uh, sure, right. How exactly did a guy in plainclothes in an unmarked car pull you over in the first place? I'm really not buying that a lot of these stories are as the article presents them. It reeks of bias and agenda. That said, I don't agree at all with any judge interpreting these video surveillance laws (which thankfully exist in only 12 states and appear to be used in this way in only 3) in this way. I doubt this absurd interpretation will survive any sort of Federal challange. More amusingly, what's going to happen to the cruiser cams that these departments undoubtedly have? Doesn't this mean that any officer filming himself conducting a traffic stop (which might even be required by policy in the departments in question!) is committing a crime by filming himself? That's absurd of course, but so is this interpretation of the surveillance laws. However, all that side, all of you calling for executions are a bunch of hystrionic assholes. This is also not a problem of "the police" in general, it's a highly localized problem and probably only works with a few sympathetic judges. If you're taking this article with anything but a huge dose of skepticism about the incidents it mentions, you're just looking for evidence to confirm your own biases. |
Author: | darksiege [ Thu Jun 03, 2010 7:46 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: Criminalizing Photography ... |
Diamondeye wrote: However, all that side, all of you calling for executions are a bunch of hystrionic assholes. This is also not a problem of "the police" in general, it's a highly localized problem and probably only works with a few sympathetic judges. If you're taking this article with anything but a huge dose of skepticism about the incidents it mentions, you're just looking for evidence to confirm your own biases. Since I am the only one who has made mention of that... Quote: I am now beginning to support Elmo's diatribe of execution for these police officers who support this. I did not say it was a problem with police in general, merely the ones who support this. I have supported the police in many other cases. But this is a blatant abuse of power. This goes right along with police threatening people on video regarding their cell phone cameras (which have been posted on one variant of the glade or another.) This is just another piece of evidence in a trend that has started well before this thread. Also put that in with the thread where now the police can just think you are going too fast... It all shows a rising trend for abuse of power. So how about you shove it. |
Author: | Ladas [ Thu Jun 03, 2010 8:05 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: Criminalizing Photography ... |
Diamondeye wrote: For example, the guy that was supposedly pulled over by a guy in an unmarked car not wearing a uniform, while of duty. Uh, sure, right. How exactly did a guy in plainclothes in an unmarked car pull you over in the first place? Around here, unmarked cars still have blue lights to pull people over... They just aren't on the roof, and the doors/sides of the car don't have the typical police stripes/badge stickers. |
Author: | Kaffis Mark V [ Thu Jun 03, 2010 8:49 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: Criminalizing Photography ... |
Diamondeye wrote: Doesn't this mean that any officer filming himself conducting a traffic stop (which might even be required by policy in the departments in question!) is committing a crime by filming himself? Close, but no. See, he's consenting to film himself. It's the perp who hasn't consented. |
Author: | darksiege [ Thu Jun 03, 2010 9:27 pm ] |
Post subject: | |
I am going to be even more of a douchebag about it... turn around and sue over the use of the dashboard cams in the police cars. Use the newly set precedent by the police in these areas. |
Author: | LadyKate [ Thu Jun 03, 2010 10:03 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: Criminalizing Photography ... |
Diamondeye wrote: If you're taking this article with anything but a huge dose of skepticism about the incidents it mentions, you're just looking for evidence to confirm your own biases. I'm not a histrionic *******, nor am I looking for evidence to confirm my own biases. I just tend to take most of what I read at face value. |
Author: | Khross [ Fri Jun 04, 2010 7:30 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: Criminalizing Photography ... |
Diamondeye: Your response is both predictable and sad in this case. Regardless of prose skill of the author, the facts are all independently verifiable, particularly the juridical rulings that enable this sort of interpretation. And while it is not "widespread" or "typical", the fact that such behavior occurs is both problematic and disturbing. The people of any community should expect more and receive more from their police officers. |
Author: | DFK! [ Fri Jun 04, 2010 11:51 am ] |
Post subject: | |
Regarding speeding based solely on opinion: just challenge all such cases via jury trial. |
Author: | Diamondeye [ Sat Jun 05, 2010 4:50 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: Criminalizing Photography ... |
darksiege wrote: Diamondeye wrote: However, all that side, all of you calling for executions are a bunch of hystrionic assholes. This is also not a problem of "the police" in general, it's a highly localized problem and probably only works with a few sympathetic judges. If you're taking this article with anything but a huge dose of skepticism about the incidents it mentions, you're just looking for evidence to confirm your own biases. Since I am the only one who has made mention of that... Quote: I am now beginning to support Elmo's diatribe of execution for these police officers who support this. I did not say it was a problem with police in general, merely the ones who support this. I have supported the police in many other cases. But this is a blatant abuse of power. This goes right along with police threatening people on video regarding their cell phone cameras (which have been posted on one variant of the glade or another.) This is just another piece of evidence in a trend that has started well before this thread. Also put that in with the thread where now the police can just think you are going too fast... It all shows a rising trend for abuse of power. So how about you shove it. There is no "rising trend of abuse of power". In any case, if you'd read what I said carefully, you'd see that I called you a hystrionic ******* for calling for execution (which is sheer nonsense) and then went on to call anyone else who was claiming this is a problem with police in general also a hystrionic *******. So, no, you can go shove it. As for "looking like you're speeding", the law has always been that you stop someone because they appear to be speeding. Mechanical confirmation by Radar, Laser, or speedometer just confirms the observation. In fact, if you get an officer in court on a speeding ticket and he admits that he only took your speed mechanically, you'll win. Determining someone's speed by visual estimate to within 5 mph is part of radar training. It's quite easy. I can do it consistently, and any of you that have normal eyesight can be trained to do it as well in about an hour or so, maybe less. More to the point, speed laws almost always have a clause that any speed unsafe for conditions is illegal anyhow. DFK! is right; anyone who gets a ticket for a visual speed violation should take it to court. Without mechanical confirmation it's much easier to create reasonable doubt. |
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