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PostPosted: Thu Jul 08, 2010 11:49 am 
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Entitlement.

Seriously, a job paying $40k with benefits is too low for you, when you're 24 and living with your parents completely unemployed?

My heart just melts with sympathy for you....

NYTimes wrote:
GRAFTON, Mass. — After breakfast, his parents left for their jobs, and Scott Nicholson, alone in the house in this comfortable suburb west of Boston, went to his laptop in the living room. He had placed it on a small table that his mother had used for a vase of flowers until her unemployed son found himself reluctantly stuck at home.

The daily routine seldom varied. Mr. Nicholson, 24, a graduate of Colgate University, winner of a dean’s award for academic excellence, spent his mornings searching corporate Web sites for suitable job openings. When he found one, he mailed off a résumé and cover letter — four or five a week, week after week.

Over the last five months, only one job materialized. After several interviews, the Hanover Insurance Group in nearby Worcester offered to hire him as an associate claims adjuster, at $40,000 a year. But even before the formal offer, Mr. Nicholson had decided not to take the job.

Rather than waste early years in dead-end work, he reasoned, he would hold out for a corporate position that would draw on his college training and put him, as he sees it, on the bottom rungs of a career ladder.

“The conversation I’m going to have with my parents now that I’ve turned down this job is more of a concern to me than turning down the job,” he said.


Because obviously, taking a decent job that will pay your bills and give you work experience while letting you search for other options is a bad thing....

The rest of the article is also worth a read.

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 08, 2010 11:52 am 
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Good Lord...

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 08, 2010 12:00 pm 
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As a parent my next words would be of support, encouragement and "pack your bags you idiot spawn of my loins, sorry I failed to raise you as a intelligent human being, may the world be a better teacher."

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 08, 2010 12:11 pm 
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No, his parents are actually subsidizing his decision making process, giving him $2000/mo. to move to Boston with his older brother.

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 08, 2010 12:15 pm 
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My intro sociology class discussed the "millennial" attitude. It was rather disheartening to watch. At least most kids in my class said they couldn't relate to the kids they saw in the documentary. Once things start really crashing, they'll reevaluate their decision-making paradigm, I'm sure. It would just be nice if their parents would kick their asses out to give them a crash course on it.

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 08, 2010 12:20 pm 
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First, his Dad is employed but they don't mention anything about his Mom. Dad is a manager of a tool manufacturer, and the household has an annual income of $175k.

Second, it sounds like he's recently out of college doing quite well. Based on his age and taking the claims of his competitiveness and work ethic at face value, I have to assume that he has a Masters degree. Depending on the field he's in, he very well could command a salary much higher than $40k/year. If so, it would be completely stupid for him to jump too quickly on a lower paying job instead of at least trying to find something within his field.

Finally, $40k isn't the same everywhere. $40k is a decent lower-middle class income here in Minneapolis, but they are in the Boston area and the cost of living is MUCH higher up there. I suspect that $40k there would be the equivelant to something like 26-30k here.


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 08, 2010 12:28 pm 
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Except it is still work, and his education isn't likely worth the value you ascribe to it. I've posted at length on this subject more than once, but a college education is nominally valueless in our society at this point. There is little practical training he could have received that qualifies for him for a corporate career. More to the point, if he has a Master's Degree, then it is unlikely to be one of sufficient market value. An MBA from Colgate University isn't even worth registering for entry level executive jobs. And, based on the job offer as an Insurance Adjuster, my money is on a liberal arts degree without sufficient breadth to make him a marketable asset for any company. He is, effectively, the economic equivalent of a high school graduate from 1960.

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 08, 2010 12:29 pm 
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Assuming there isn't some tax payer funded mechanism at work in his situation (none are mentioned, so I don't understand the title of the thread or "entitlements" implication), I have no problem with this.

Its a matter between himself and his parents. And if this were instead a case of a family consolidating households with other family members to cut costs and avoid welfare, I'd applaud that decision.


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 08, 2010 12:31 pm 
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A BS gets me 3k work hours off of the PMP.

That is its current value to me.

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 08, 2010 12:34 pm 
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Khross:

I'm aware of your views on education. I disagree with them and your conclusions.

Yes, the job is still work. However, it appears from the article that he just graduated. In my mind 2 months is too soon to abandon trying to get into a job within your chosen field and to settle for "anything". It is the epitome of penny wise and pound foolish.

Now, if we fast forward this say 4-6 months and there's still no sign of anything within your field, then you need to take a hard look at anything that is a resonable position.


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 08, 2010 12:34 pm 
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Sadly, even if you don't need a college degree for the actual job, you still need one to get past the autofilter program so that an actual human will read your resume.


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 08, 2010 12:35 pm 
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Uncle Fester wrote:
As a parent my next words would be of support, encouragement and "pack your bags you idiot spawn of my loins, sorry I failed to raise you as a intelligent human being, may the world be a better teacher."


This.

A job is a job, and any idiot knows the best way to land a job is to already have one.

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 08, 2010 12:47 pm 
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Aizle wrote:
First, his Dad is employed but they don't mention anything about his Mom. Dad is a manager of a tool manufacturer, and the household has an annual income of $175k.

Second, it sounds like he's recently out of college doing quite well. Based on his age and taking the claims of his competitiveness and work ethic at face value, I have to assume that he has a Masters degree. Depending on the field he's in, he very well could command a salary much higher than $40k/year. If so, it would be completely stupid for him to jump too quickly on a lower paying job instead of at least trying to find something within his field.

Finally, $40k isn't the same everywhere. $40k is a decent lower-middle class income here in Minneapolis, but they are in the Boston area and the cost of living is MUCH higher up there. I suspect that $40k there would be the equivelant to something like 26-30k here.


If you read the rest of the article, he has a BA in political science. That's not exactly a degree that is way up there in demand.

Sure, he was a good student. But it's not like he has an MBA (even though that's worthless without job experience to back it), or even a degree in business, finance, or accounting. Or a degree in one of the sciences or engineering.

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 08, 2010 12:47 pm 
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Education w/o experience doesn't get him the job he wants. It gets him the opportunity to prove his merits at a job he doesn't want for 2 years, at which point he will have started compiling a resume, if he works his *** off an achieves, to get him the job he wants. His expectations are unrealistic, especially in such a poor job market.

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19 Yet she became more and more promiscuous as she recalled the days of her youth, when she was a prostitute in Egypt. 20 There she lusted after her lovers, whose genitals were like those of donkeys and whose emission was like that of horses.

Ezekiel 23:19-20 


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 08, 2010 12:51 pm 
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Not only that, but at the end of the article, his current plan?

To find a job tending bar or working at a temp agency.

That's gonna look MUCH better on a resume than the job he turned down, for sure...

I just don't have much patience for this. Sure, he doesn't have any debt. Why? Because he had everything paid for by his grandparents and parents. He's spending their money so he can sit on his *** instead of getting an entry level job and working his way up.

A BA in political science with a minor in history does not really qualify you for a managerial position in a big corporation, which is what he wants.

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 08, 2010 12:52 pm 
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NephyrS wrote:
Aizle wrote:
First, his Dad is employed but they don't mention anything about his Mom. Dad is a manager of a tool manufacturer, and the household has an annual income of $175k.

Second, it sounds like he's recently out of college doing quite well. Based on his age and taking the claims of his competitiveness and work ethic at face value, I have to assume that he has a Masters degree. Depending on the field he's in, he very well could command a salary much higher than $40k/year. If so, it would be completely stupid for him to jump too quickly on a lower paying job instead of at least trying to find something within his field.

Finally, $40k isn't the same everywhere. $40k is a decent lower-middle class income here in Minneapolis, but they are in the Boston area and the cost of living is MUCH higher up there. I suspect that $40k there would be the equivelant to something like 26-30k here.


If you read the rest of the article, he has a BA in political science. That's not exactly a degree that is way up there in demand.

Sure, he was a good student. But it's not like he has an MBA (even though that's worthless without job experience to back it), or even a degree in business, finance, or accounting. Or a degree in one of the sciences or engineering.


Ah, I missed that in my skimming of the article. Yeah, a BA is Poli Sci isn't going to net you a ton of cash. That said, the rest of my comments are still valid. And presumably if you went to school for Poli Sci, then you probably wanted to work in that field. So I think it's still premature to abandon trying to find a job in that field. But he's probably got a rude awakening on the salary potential side, until he gets a ways up into politics.


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 08, 2010 12:55 pm 
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NephyrS wrote:
Not only that, but at the end of the article, his current plan?

To find a job tending bar or working at a temp agency.

That's gonna look MUCH better on a resume than the job he turned down, for sure...

I just don't have much patience for this. Sure, he doesn't have any debt. Why? Because he had everything paid for by his grandparents and parents. He's spending their money so he can sit on his *** instead of getting an entry level job and working his way up.

A BA in political science with a minor in history does not really qualify you for a managerial position in a big corporation, which is what he wants.


Those are temp jobs to help bring in some cash while he's still looking for a job in his field. Taking the other job would necessitate moving and a level of commitment that would artificially limit his options for finding something in his chosen field. He's being intelligent about his search method at this point.


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 08, 2010 12:56 pm 
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Aizle:

Having finished the article and learning the individual in question has a B.A. in Political Science, I'll simply accept a mea culpa from you. He's trying to get jobs over his pay grade and turned down an offer substantially better than he should have been presented in the first place.

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 08, 2010 12:56 pm 
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He's not applying to anything in that field.

His big brother has a managerial position in the same insurance company he applied to.

He wanted to work at the same level, because his brother makes lots of money.

When asked in the interview why he was interested in insurance (since he had no background in it) he said because his brother had a nice job, and was promptly told the job he wanted was about 15 tiers above what he was qualified for.

If he was holding out for something in a PolySci related field, I could understand wanting to work in that field.

But he doesn't. He just wants the same type of job he got offered, but with a higher rank and more pay.

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 08, 2010 12:56 pm 
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If he wanted a job in politics he should have been compiling a resume doing volunteer work on campaigns. Get a few wins under his belt. He should still be doing it. Marketing himself with his success.

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19 Yet she became more and more promiscuous as she recalled the days of her youth, when she was a prostitute in Egypt. 20 There she lusted after her lovers, whose genitals were like those of donkeys and whose emission was like that of horses.

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 08, 2010 1:15 pm 
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Fascinating, I work for an insurance company and Claims experience is a tremendous plus for those seeking advancement. Obviously our largest expense is claims and losses so the having that under your belt aids in decision-making and seeing the big picture. Perhaps he should have researched the industry a little bit.

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 08, 2010 1:52 pm 
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Aizle wrote:
However, it appears from the article that he just graduated. In my mind 2 months is too soon to abandon trying to get into a job within your chosen field and to settle for "anything". It is the epitome of penny wise and pound foolish.

Now, if we fast forward this say 4-6 months and there's still no sign of anything within your field, then you need to take a hard look at anything that is a resonable position.


Perhaps you should re-read:

Article wrote:
Over the last five months, only one job materialized. After several interviews, the Hanover Insurance Group in nearby Worcester offered to hire him as an associate claims adjuster, at $40,000 a year. But even before the formal offer, Mr. Nicholson had decided not to take the job.


Underline mine.

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 08, 2010 2:06 pm 
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a few things here...

1- Dumbass should have taken the job.
2- Depending on how close to Boston he was: 40k is not much.
3- Dumbass still should have taken the job
4- Father should have put his hand on his shoulder, pointed to the door and yelled "AUS Biiiiitch!"

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 08, 2010 2:06 pm 
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What's the cost of living in Mass?

I make about $60k, net, working two jobs for about two-thirds of the year. Even if I were to drop the second job, I'd be under $40k (probably about 32k gross) and I'd still be able to pay all of my bills with the occasional luxury.


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 08, 2010 2:08 pm 
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Lenas wrote:
What's the cost of living in Mass?


I'm going to go with "irrelevant." No offense.

He lives at home, does not a goddamned thing all day besides suck up family resources, and earns $0.

Had he taken that job, he could have lived at home, built skills all day, come home and suck up family resources, and earned $40k gross.

The latter is better.

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