The Glade 4.0

Find it at 3:17.

[youtube]IpyrlX52TwA[/youtube]

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Ezekiel 23:19-20 

The gasp when he says the bit you quoted amuses me, in a jaded, resigned way.

I mean, this surprises people? Revolts and disgusts, yes. But surprise?

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"Aaaah! Emotions are weird!" - Amdee
"... Mirrorshades prevent the forces of normalcy from realizing that one is crazed and possibly dangerous. They are the symbol of the sun-staring visionary, the biker, the rocker, the policeman, and similar outlaws." - Bruce Sterling, preface to Mirrorshades

Well, people are stupid, after all. And Obama was going to solve everything inside of 6 months with his magic Hope.

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“The duty of a patriot is to protect his country from its government.” - Thomas Paine

I think what the surprise is at, is the direct contention that Obama is being knowingly and intentionally derelict in his presidential duties, and is instead seeking to trade actually doing his job for political quid-pro-quo.

This strikes me as nothing short of an impeachable offense.

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Ezekiel 23:19-20 

If he truly believes that "securing the border" will not solve the immigration problem, then it's tough to say he is knowingly derlict in his duty. If he believes the only way to effectively control the border is with comprehensive immigration reform, then he has a duty to pursue it.

It's certainly debatable, but does it go that far? I don't know. Keep in mind, I haven't watched the video.

Not really. Preserving the sovereignty of the United States of America is basically job one for the PotUS. Chief on the list of "things that establish sovereignty" is having a border.

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“The duty of a patriot is to protect his country from its government.” - Thomas Paine

Again, if he thinks the only way to secure that border is through comprehensive reform, then he's not really knowingly in derelict of duty.

Sounds like another "have a heart attack and die of not surprise" moment. At least Kyl was honest about it.

I'm not sure it qualifies as "high crimes and misdemeanors" though just despicable political stragedy. After all if purjury doesn't cut it what does?

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I prefer to think of them as "Fighting evil in another dimension"

"Securing a border" has nothing to do with immigration policy, unless that policy is "let people freely walk across the border as they choose." In which case, why have a border.

Once again, words have meanings.

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“The duty of a patriot is to protect his country from its government.” - Thomas Paine

The White House denies Obama ever said that, so it's one politician's word against another's. Personally, I suspect Kyl said he didn't want to discuss comprehensive reform until the border was secured, and Obama replied by calling bullsh*t and saying Republicans have no intention of ever discussing reform even if the border is secure. Now Kyl either misunderstood that or is misrepresenting it.

This is why I hope more states follow Arizona's lead, because of how pathetic Washington is.

Actually, Arathain is quite right. It is entirely possible that Obama actually thinks that immigration reform will contribute to, facilitate, or otherwise help bring about securing the border. It is not unreasonable, in theory, that making it easier to cross by legal avenues would make illegal avenues less attractive. That would mean that those using such illegal avenues were more likely to be doing so for nefarious purposes beyond simply being here illegally, again, in theory.

So, this has really nothing to do with words having meanings (which is a silly thing to say anyhow; it's purely tautological); it has to do with Obama possibly being honestly incompetant due to his ideology as opposed to purposefully ignoring his duties. Either is possible.

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"Hysterical children shrieking about right-wing anything need to go sit in the corner and be quiet while the adults are talking."

I guess this will all be moot when Obama issues an executive order of amnesty. I'm sure that's what he means by "comprehensive immigration reform" anyway.

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"Dress cops up as soldiers, give them military equipment, train them in military tactics, tell them they’re fighting a ‘war,’ and the consequences are predictable." —Radley Balko

It amuses me sometimes that you guys actually think having a really tall wall would stop the illegals from getting into the country any way they can. They will simply change tactics, but they won't go away.

Take us for e.g. natural boarder, lots of deadly things, deadly landscape, and miles from nowhere. We still have people sneaking in in boats when their success rate is somewhat shoddy. We rescue people who get lost or die cause they weren't prepared for the journey more often then not.

A big wall is not going to help you, cracking down on the illegals and stop giving them rights will.

What you don't realize for all practical matters there's a section of Southern Arizona that has been effectively taken over by the Mexican cartels. There are signs warning US citizens not to enter the area due to the dangers. Law enforcements acknowledges the fact that the cartels have look out posts in the area.
AZ Game and fish had to rewrite hunting regulations for the area for the few Hunters that actually hunt done there.
The Cartels Have Issued a Threat to Law enforcement that basically states if your off duty your open game.
I can tell you where to park a truck in Phoenix if you want it Stolen, and I can tell you within 50 miles of where it will be recovered.
But as far as Obum is concerned we don't have a problem.

A big Wall won't solve the entire problem but it will greatly reduce the traffic routes available to them, and allow law enforcement to focus on those areas.

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History of the Condom
In 1272, the Muslim Arabs invented the condom, using a goat's lower intestine.
In 1873, the British somewhat refined the idea, by taking the intestine out of the goat first.

It's really easy to say "they'll change tactics", and they will, but what does that mean? Why will whatever they do necessarily be just as effective as before the wall?

A wall won't solve the problem, but saying it won't help is silly. It doesn't have to be perfect to be of some help.

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"Hysterical children shrieking about right-wing anything need to go sit in the corner and be quiet while the adults are talking."

Unless you're going to be fitting that wall with lazer guided movement detecting weaponary, it's just 1 more inconvenience to over come. Those desperate enough to make the treck will still do it regardless, the thing you need to take away from illegals is opportunity.

Things such as Citizenship by place of birth, the ability to open bank accounts, to work un-checked/hire un-checked, get a driver's licence, etc.

Crack down on the need for Social Security numbers, bring in hefty fines so that hireing illegals are a moderate risk, rather than a slap on the wrist. Require identification and proof of legal residency when ever you renew your drivers licence.

Unfortunately until you guys get over the "but think of the children" crowd, you will continue to have a problem, regardless of the height of your wall.

That's why we need comprehensive reform

a secure boarder
no jobs and services for illegals
an effective identification, deterant, and deportation policy
a reasonable path to citizenship for those intelligent hard working individuals who truely want to contribute to Society of this nation

The worry for me and others like me is that our President says "comprehensive reform" and means "blanket amnesty"

I would agrue that this is the kind of bill that Republicans should be pushing for but our Speaker has a nasty habit of ignoring any bills that aren't hers no matter how many co-sponsors they have.

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I prefer to think of them as "Fighting evil in another dimension"

This really is a myth... even if we surrounded the US with a really tall wall guarded by lazer sighted movement detecting weaponary, a big ocean, sharks, killer jelly fish, and the bermuda triangle. There will still be people trying to get through, the only difference is most will die trying.

How about a "more secure border" then, Lydiaa? Does that make more sense to you?

People here want a more secure border. It doesn't need to be perfect, it just needs to be more secure than an imaginary line in the dirt with nobody watching as you walk over.

I don't disagree with your other points, but it seems that the easiest to accomplish here (politically) is to secure the border in a meaningful way, and then tackle the other reforms that seem to get bottled up in Congress.

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"Dress cops up as soldiers, give them military equipment, train them in military tactics, tell them they’re fighting a ‘war,’ and the consequences are predictable." —Radley Balko

A wall "worked" in Germany for many years. Not that I'm advocating such a thing, but to say it won't work requires ignoring reality.

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In time, this too shall pass.

Fair enough. Many boarder dweller in the southwest can testify to the numbers of people who cross their boarder daily, and they have no recourse. Certainly steps can be made to impede those individuals.

If you do the other items on my list well enough the secure boarder thing becomes less important. In the end I want us to use every tool we have to make the legal option look infinitely more attractive than the illegal ones.

E-verify for job seekers would be a big help but let's look at other things too.

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I prefer to think of them as "Fighting evil in another dimension"

Not really, I was just speaking to someone who walked that wall in the 80s. Once you got outside of Berlin it was pretty much open fields. He said they used to cross over accidentally all the time as did their Soviet counterparts.

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In time, this too shall pass.

Again, I state it was only effective in Berlin:

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