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Take our jobs, please!
https://gladerebooted.net/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=3402
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Author:  Aizle [ Wed Jul 07, 2010 2:31 pm ]
Post subject:  Take our jobs, please!

www.takeourjobs.org

http://money.cnn.com/2010/07/07/news/ec ... htm?hpt=C2

Quote:
NEW YORK (CNNMoney.com) -- Facing growing anti-immigrant rhetoric, the United Farm Workers union is challenging Americans to take their labor-intensive, low-paying farm jobs.

As communities nationwide grapple with tenacious unemployment, migrant workers are often accused of stealing jobs from Americans. The union believes this accusation is without basis, and intends to demonstrate this with a newly-launched campaign called "Take Our Jobs."

"Farm workers do the work that most Americans are not willing to do," said union president Arturo Rodriguez in the announcement of the campaign.

At least half a million applicants are needed to replace the immigrant workforce, so the union has posted an online application for Americans who want to work on a farm.

Through its Web site, at www.takeourjobs.org, the union promises to connect applicants with farm jobs in their area.

Since June 24, at least 4,000 people have responded to the application, said Rodriguez. Some are serious responses and others are hate mail. "Only a few dozen have really followed through with the process," he said.

Most applicants quickly lose interest once the reality sinks in that these are back-breaking jobs in triple-digit temperatures that pay minimum wage, usually without benefits, according to the union. Some small farms are not required to pay minimum wage and in 15 states farms aren't required to offer workers' compensation.

Author:  Screeling [ Wed Jul 07, 2010 2:35 pm ]
Post subject: 

Cut off unemployment and then see who's willing to take those jobs, even for minimum wage.

Author:  Uncle Fester [ Wed Jul 07, 2010 2:55 pm ]
Post subject: 

Cut off the welfare as well,

Author:  RangerDave [ Wed Jul 07, 2010 4:07 pm ]
Post subject: 

*chuckle* The modern American conservative's view in a nutshell: "Kick the immigrants out and cut off all the anti-poverty programs so poor, unemployed Americans can get back to doing 'back-breaking jobs in triple-digit temperatures that pay minimum wage...without benefits...or worker's compensation.'" Sounds great!

Author:  Xequecal [ Wed Jul 07, 2010 4:14 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Take our jobs, please!

The entire far-right conservative platform is basically based off of making the bottom segment of society so utterly miserable that everyone else becomes massively productive/inventive in an immense effort to avoid ending up there.

I'm still of the opinion that if the ultra-rich bankers and bondholders get to have a bailout every time they make a mistake, it's only fair for everyone else to get at least welfare and not have to stoop to such jobs. And you're never going to change the former, they'll buy the lawmakers to write the laws they want, and failing that they'll buy FOX and CNN to tell people to vote for the candidates they want so they can get the laws they want.

Author:  Khross [ Wed Jul 07, 2010 4:15 pm ]
Post subject:  Re:

RangerDave wrote:
*chuckle* The modern American conservative's view in a nutshell: "Kick the immigrants out and cut off all the anti-poverty programs so poor, unemployed Americans can get back to doing 'back-breaking jobs in triple-digit temperatures that pay minimum wage...without benefits...or worker's compensation.'" Sounds great!
Yes. That's the way things should be. All that "privilege" you're accustomed to comes at a price, RangerDave.

Author:  Rynar [ Wed Jul 07, 2010 4:18 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Take our jobs, please!

Xequecal wrote:
The entire far-right conservative platform is basically based off of making the bottom segment of society so utterly miserable that everyone else becomes massively productive/inventive in an immense effort to avoid ending up there.


No it isn't. This is the single most uninformed, and pre-prejudicially biased thing I've ever read here.

Author:  Taskiss [ Wed Jul 07, 2010 4:23 pm ]
Post subject: 

My father did back-breaking labor in triple and negative digit temps for what I would consider a minimum pay.

He would have said that it builds character.

Author:  RangerDave [ Wed Jul 07, 2010 4:24 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Re:

Khross wrote:
All that "privilege" you're accustomed to comes at a price, RangerDave.


Quite so, and does the privilege of living in a stable society that makes wealth, security, liberty, etc. possible in the first place. It's all a trade-off. We all have to pay a price to live where we do and how we do. Enlightened self-interest, ftw! And that's even without introducing the strange idea of, you know, compassion and concern for one's fellow man.

Author:  Khross [ Wed Jul 07, 2010 4:24 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Take our jobs, please!

RangerDave:

I'm not sure you really understand the concept of enlightened self-interest.

Author:  Xequecal [ Wed Jul 07, 2010 4:26 pm ]
Post subject:  Re:

Taskiss wrote:
My father did back-breaking labor in triple and negative digit temps for what I would consider a minimum pay.

He would have said that it builds character.


So did mine, and he's very vocal about saying that any politician that advocates a system that essentially forces people to do such jobs in the richest country in the world should be taken out and shot.

Author:  Khross [ Wed Jul 07, 2010 4:28 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Re:

Xequecal wrote:
So did mine, and he's very vocal about saying that any politician that advocates a system that essentially forces people to do such jobs in the richest country in the world should be taken out and shot.
No one forces anyone to do those jobs. The fact that someone does, however, contributes to the fact that we're the richest country in the world. I spent my time in the tobacco fields. I spent my time working a full time job during my last two years of high school. I worked at least 1 full time job in addition to going to college. During the summers, I usually worked two.

You see, I've worked for the leisure and privilege I now enjoy. And, honestly, nothing prevents any of you from doing the same.

Author:  Xequecal [ Wed Jul 07, 2010 4:31 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Re:

Khross wrote:
Xequecal wrote:
So did mine, and he's very vocal about saying that any politician that advocates a system that essentially forces people to do such jobs in the richest country in the world should be taken out and shot.
No one forces anyone to do those jobs.


Of course they do, unless you're of the opinion that having to choose between doing that job and starvation or exposure is not "forcing" that person to do it. I very much doubt private charities would be able to reach all such people in this situation, let alone willing. (since they technically are turning down available work)

Hard work does not entitle you to success. It really doesn't. It's just the price of the lottery ticket, there is a very large luck factor involved.

Author:  Uncle Fester [ Wed Jul 07, 2010 4:41 pm ]
Post subject: 

There is luck in crossing the street, and getting hit by lightning, so what? Sitting on your *** collecting welfare is not success.

Hard work alone does not guarantee success. I could work to my utmost every single day, but I will never play for the NFL. Should I cry against the universe. What I have done is work to the best of my ability and succeed. Will I own an island like Dr Doom above, never. Will I be envious, sure, will I demand a chunk of his island, again never.

Author:  Taskiss [ Wed Jul 07, 2010 4:56 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Re:

Xequecal wrote:
Taskiss wrote:
My father did back-breaking labor in triple and negative digit temps for what I would consider a minimum pay.

He would have said that it builds character.


So did mine, and he's very vocal about saying that any politician that advocates a system that essentially forces people to do such jobs in the richest country in the world should be taken out and shot.
See, I don't think our fathers are on the same page there at all, despite your insistence there are similarities.

His opinion was, (and I quote) "You can think for a living or stink for a living", and he was very vocal in insisting I get a good education. He never begrudged anyone anything.

Author:  Xequecal [ Wed Jul 07, 2010 5:00 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Re:

Taskiss wrote:
His opinion was, (and I quote) "You can think for a living or stink for a living", and he was very vocal in insisting I get a good education. He never begrudged anyone anything.


I meant the "backbreaking physical labor" part, not the "it builds character" part.

Author:  Xequecal [ Wed Jul 07, 2010 5:03 pm ]
Post subject:  Re:

Uncle Fester wrote:
There is luck in crossing the street, and getting hit by lightning, so what? Sitting on your *** collecting welfare is not success.

Hard work alone does not guarantee success. I could work to my utmost every single day, but I will never play for the NFL. Should I cry against the universe. What I have done is work to the best of my ability and succeed. Will I own an island like Dr Doom above, never. Will I be envious, sure, will I demand a chunk of his island, again never.


Working in a total dead end backbreaking farm labor position is not success either. It's much better to be on welfare and read some books to teach yourself a new skill, rather than be so exhausted at the end of every day that you have no energy left to learn anything new.

Author:  shuyung [ Wed Jul 07, 2010 5:10 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Re:

Xequecal wrote:
Working in a total dead end backbreaking farm labor position is not success either. It's much better to be on welfare and read some books to teach yourself a new skill, rather than be so exhausted at the end of every day that you have no energy left to learn anything new.

This may be the most ridiculous statement I've ever seen. Have you ever worked on a farm?

Author:  Uncle Fester [ Wed Jul 07, 2010 5:14 pm ]
Post subject: 

Is back breaking labor the limit of your ability?

Author:  Monte [ Wed Jul 07, 2010 5:17 pm ]
Post subject: 

You know, because I am sure every person who is currently collecting their 1200 dollars a month of unemployment (At the very best) is sitting there riding high on the hog and loving life. I'm sure they are all just too lazy to go out and get a job that can support their families. I'm sure that the unemployment insurance is just a big ol' disincentive for these people to go out and look for a job.

Or something.

Unemployment insurance is one of the fastest ways to increase demand and create or maintain jobs. When folks who will spend money (on food, gas to hit the pavement to look for work, etc) have money to spend - guess what? They spend it. Every dollar spent is another person's income. So, when you extend unemployment benefits you get a hell of a lot of bang for your buck economically.

Author:  darksiege [ Wed Jul 07, 2010 5:22 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Re:

Xequecal wrote:
Working in a total dead end backbreaking farm labor position is not success either. It's much better to be on welfare and read some books to teach yourself a new skill, rather than be so exhausted at the end of every day that you have no energy left to learn anything new.


This is why you are part of the problem and not part of the solution.

Author:  Monte [ Wed Jul 07, 2010 5:29 pm ]
Post subject: 

Because every person in the world that works super hard becomes super rich, right?

Author:  Screeling [ Wed Jul 07, 2010 5:34 pm ]
Post subject: 

Every person in the U.S. at least that works super hard will tend to live a comfortable lifestyle. If they're working super-hard, they don't end up making minimum wage for the rest of their life.

Author:  Jocificus [ Wed Jul 07, 2010 5:40 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Take our jobs, please!

Just about everyone I know has worked a thankless, poor paying job at some time in their lives and I'd sure as hell do it again if it was the only job I could find. I was actually starting to look for such jobs when I finally hit the jack pot with my current job as a park ranger.

The problem isn't that there aren't people willing to do these jobs, it's that welfare and unemployment are far easier and really don't pay worse and can even be better. Why work a hard job if you can get money sitting around the house?

Our welfare system is horribly broken. It encourages laziness instead of pushing people into continuing to look for jobs. Not everyone is happy with a welfare check, but millions of americans are.

Unemployment is another issue, but it encourages people to not worry about saving. Everyone should have enough savings to survive for awhile, but almost no one does (six months is the figure I've heard most).

I'd love to see the governments welfare system be turned into something similar to my church's, but that will never happen. It basically stipulates that those pulling from the welfare system help in some way, be it helping in the processing plants, helping drive people around, whatever. Of course, someone would throw a fit about having people work for their free stuff, and it would never happen.

Author:  darksiege [ Wed Jul 07, 2010 5:42 pm ]
Post subject: 

This is not about becoming super rich, this is about supporting yourself and your family without government programs; and about curbing illegal immigration.

I am unsure if you have noticed or not; but right now, with the way the country is going survival is king, not excess.

Minimize the government costs and control would reduce expenditures. Then by cutting spending on the government programs like welfare and getting rid of entitlement programs would save more money. You could then save the working class even more money by not requiring as much be paid in via taxes.

You can then make the money stretch even further by resuming more of anti-federalist doctrine again and allowing the states to have ultimate control over their citizenry, with the federal government resembling a feudal lord and not a wannabe emporer.

I have even said it many times; should I find myself looking for work.. regardless of student status, or my own desires: I would get two jobs working crap minimum wage labor to make sure I was doing what I could. But I would not expect that to last as my qualifications (read self desire to improve and learn) make me much more valuable than a minimum wage employee.

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