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He thinks it is great now, but wait
https://gladerebooted.net/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=3544		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  Ladas [ Wed Jul 21, 2010 9:09 am ]
Post subject:  He thinks it is great now, but wait
until they figure out to tax bartering
Author:  LadyKate [ Wed Jul 21, 2010 9:14 am ]
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Wasn't there some guy that did the same thing and started with a red paper clip and wound up with a house?
Author:  Ladas [ Wed Jul 21, 2010 9:18 am ]
Post subject:  Re: He thinks it is great now, but wait
I had not heard that before, but apparently there is a wiki article about it. However, reading his trades list and the publicity the site had about the idea, I'm guessing some of the trades were done in an effort to assist, not based upon value of the trade.
Author:  Rynar [ Wed Jul 21, 2010 9:21 am ]
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The IRS already assesses a tax on increased value in a barter.
Author:  LadyKate [ Wed Jul 21, 2010 9:23 am ]
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Ladas: Yeah...looking at the wiki article a few of those trades are just not realistic for the average joe.
I wonder what it would take for a normal person without publicity or special connections to get to that level....did you find anything that lists the trades the teenager made to get to the car?
Author:  Müs [ Wed Jul 21, 2010 9:47 am ]
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A 17 year old boy in a 2000 Porsche Boxster. In CA.

The insurance is going to break him.
Author:  Lenas [ Wed Jul 21, 2010 11:45 am ]
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Yeah, he's going to be looking at 3 grand a year for insurance.
Author:  Xequecal [ Wed Jul 21, 2010 3:08 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: He thinks it is great now, but wait
He's probably not buying collision coverage, then it doesn't matter what kind of car you drive.
Author:  Ienan [ Wed Jul 21, 2010 3:29 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: He thinks it is great now, but wait
Xequecal wrote:
He's probably not buying collision coverage, then it doesn't matter what kind of car you drive.

LOL? Really? Obviously you've never lived in NJ, NY, or CA. My liability coverage when I was under 25 on a Mazda 626 in NJ was about 1500 dollars. Mind you, that was for liability only. Liability only since the car was about 10 years old. It truly does depend on what state you're from. I can only imagine what it'll be on his Porsche, even if it is 10 years old, in California. I'm guessing around $2k.
Author:  Xequecal [ Wed Jul 21, 2010 3:46 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: He thinks it is great now, but wait
Ienan wrote:
Xequecal wrote:
He's probably not buying collision coverage, then it doesn't matter what kind of car you drive.

LOL? Really? Obviously you've never lived in NJ, NY, or CA. My liability coverage when I was under 25 on a Mazda 626 in NJ was about 1500 dollars. Mind you, that was for liability only. Liability only since the car was about 10 years old. It truly does depend on what state you're from. I can only imagine what it'll be on his Porsche, even if it is 10 years old, in California. I'm guessing around $2k.


Why is the price of liability coverage even dependent at all on the car you drive anyways? The insurance is never going to have to pay to replace it so it shouldn't matter if the car is worth $1 million or $100.
Author:  Ienan [ Wed Jul 21, 2010 3:48 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: He thinks it is great now, but wait
Xequecal wrote:
Ienan wrote:
Xequecal wrote:
He's probably not buying collision coverage, then it doesn't matter what kind of car you drive.

LOL? Really? Obviously you've never lived in NJ, NY, or CA. My liability coverage when I was under 25 on a Mazda 626 in NJ was about 1500 dollars. Mind you, that was for liability only. Liability only since the car was about 10 years old. It truly does depend on what state you're from. I can only imagine what it'll be on his Porsche, even if it is 10 years old, in California. I'm guessing around $2k.


Why is the price of liability coverage even dependent at all on the car you drive anyways? The insurance is never going to have to pay to replace it so it shouldn't matter if the car is worth $1 million or $100.

Insurance statistics based on the safety of the car and the type of people who drive the car. Actuaries figure out the amounts all based on statistics and pooling into groups. I'm guessing when you're driving a Porsche, the risk of accidents is going to be slightly higher.
Author:  Diamondeye [ Wed Jul 21, 2010 3:51 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: He thinks it is great now, but wait
Ienan wrote:
Xequecal wrote:
Ienan wrote:
LOL? Really? Obviously you've never lived in NJ, NY, or CA. My liability coverage when I was under 25 on a Mazda 626 in NJ was about 1500 dollars. Mind you, that was for liability only. Liability only since the car was about 10 years old. It truly does depend on what state you're from. I can only imagine what it'll be on his Porsche, even if it is 10 years old, in California. I'm guessing around $2k.


Why is the price of liability coverage even dependent at all on the car you drive anyways? The insurance is never going to have to pay to replace it so it shouldn't matter if the car is worth $1 million or $100.

Insurance statistics based on the safety of the car and the type of people who drive the car. Actuaries figure out the amounts all based on statistics and pooling into groups. I'm guessing when you're driving a Porsche, the risk of accidents is going to be slightly higher.


Possibly. On the other hand, a Porsche is small and therefore has far less mass to cause damage, and because it is expensive is therefore driven mainly by older drivers who are less likely to drive foolishly. I would not expect it to be all that much more in terms of liability coverage. The difference in cost should mainly be an issue of what state it is.
Author:  Ladas [ Wed Jul 21, 2010 4:19 pm ]
Post subject: 
The fact it is a two door sports car, and the driver is under 25, will increase his liability insurance a great deal.

The statistics suggest that people driving sports cars, especially performance cars, not just sporty looking, and are younger, tend to cause more accidents, meaning the company is paying to fix other cars.
Author:  Midgen [ Wed Jul 21, 2010 5:23 pm ]
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He said on TV that he's going to sell the Porche to help his mother buy a house...
Author:  Rafael [ Wed Jul 21, 2010 7:32 pm ]
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$3k would be a steal. For me to get coverage in Maryland on the Civic was over $3600 a year compared to $1560 in Missouri. When I went shopping for an M3 and wound up with the Subaru, you should have seen the quotes State Farm was giving me. Of course, somehow, they ended up with all sorts of claims on my record that couldn't be accounted for, somehow.

Anyway, when you take ownership of a vehicle, in most states a completed Bill of Sale is required along with the signed Title and both must be notarized by the seller, and in some cases, the purchaser though this requirement is somewhat extraneous. The Bill of Sale often will get audited if there's some suspicious amount written, such as $0 or $1 etc. In the case of relatives, Maryland has some leniency. I could sell my parent's a car for $0 and they would not incur sales tax.

So I doubt he didn't pay any tax - at the very least, sales tax, though that pales in comparison to the income tax that would have been felt had he earned the value of that car through wages rather than bartering items.
Author:  Müs [ Wed Jul 21, 2010 7:33 pm ]
Post subject:  Re:
Ladas wrote:
The fact it is a two door sports car, and the driver is under 25, will increase his liability insurance a great deal.

The statistics suggest that people driving sports cars, especially performance cars, not just sporty looking,


Well, it *is* a Boxster... so it definitely falls into the "sporty looking" category ;)

Oh, and the registration is going to break him too.

In CA, like NV ( I think) sales tax is based on MSRP and current blue book value as opposed to actual sale price.

I know you can't sell a car for a dollar here and only pay tax on that amount.
Author:  Rafael [ Wed Jul 21, 2010 7:52 pm ]
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Pft, one of the best sports car designs of the late 20th century. Historically, it's important since it pays homage to the most legendary non-prototype Porsche ever, the 550 Spyder. And with the advent of the Cayman, they finally did what everyone wanted offering a coupe option.

It has everything - perfect balance from the mid-engine design, graceful and predicable poise and refinement that makes driving it fast easy. I drove a 2002 S, and the way it moves is deceptive, much like the NSX. It just goes fast in a way that the specs don't describe. Granted, I only really got to go 7/10's on less than ideal conditions (i.e. no race track), but I still walked away unbelievably impressed.

A Boxster S as lapped Nurburgring Nordschleife only a second slower than a BMW M6, and the Cayman S actually bested the E92 M3 by a second.

I'm afraid the only reason Porsche doesn't give it more power is because it would start to enroach on the 911's territory. I would put my money on the Cayman S against any air cooled production 911 (i.e. older than 996 generation) except the 993 Turbo S and the 959, street tires, cheaters or slicks.
Author:  Müs [ Wed Jul 21, 2010 8:42 pm ]
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Boxster = Budget Porsche for someone that can't afford a 911

Cayman = Boxster with a roof. ;)
Author:  Rafael [ Wed Jul 21, 2010 9:52 pm ]
Post subject: 
The Boxster S Spyder and Cayman S sticker at $61,000 to a 911 Carrera's $74,000 so there isn't any good argument for price being the object. A Cayman S will stick over a G of average lateral acceleration and drive circles around any of the 911/S/Targa/Cabriolet combinations you can choose from and destroy it on the track. The only naturally aspirated models that would have a chance, assuming we are wearing one of the big four (Pilot PS2/Potenza RE-11/Advan Neova's/Proxes R888) would be the a 911 S variant with the X51 power package or the vaunted GT3. Though the GT3 is the greatest road racing machine built to date.

On any point and shoot tracks like Barber, Button or Willowsprings (Street course or Horse Thief), the Cayman S would have a significant advantage. Tracks that flow more easily without the need for extra sharp turn in like Road America, Lime Rock perhaps, Road Atlanta and Willow Springs (International) would give the advantage to the GT3/X51 and would probably put an non-X51 neck and neck with a Cayman S. Laguna Seca would be a wash. The non S's would have no chance.

Cayman S = Boxster with roof and Boxster = Poor Man's 911 in the same regard that Obama Protester = Racist. Go read a little about the 550 Spyder. You'll come back with a much better understanding of the 986 platform. Your claim, if you are serious, to me seems like you are unfamiliar with the heritage of Ferdinand Porsche's company. There's actually an easy, fun an interactive way to learn it: buy Need for Speed, Porsche Unleashed. It will take up through circa 1999 and while it hits on significant highlights like the legendary '73 911 RS 2.7, it does miss detailing little oddities like the 924/944/968 family and the 928, the 959 project and the LMS/ALMS GT1 962 cheaters. I think it does hit the 914, ugly as it was.
Author:  Müs [ Wed Jul 21, 2010 11:11 pm ]
Post subject: 
The Boxster S and Cayman S sticker at 61k. The 911 Carrera S is what like $90?

So yeah, the Boxster is a poor man's porsche ;)

The only one of the lot I'd have is the Cayenne S anyway. ;)
Author:  Hopwin [ Thu Jul 22, 2010 6:43 am ]
Post subject: 
Holy ****, we're talking about insurance? Liability is driven by the potential damage you might cause, not by how fast or expensive your car is. It's not as simple as how many of these types of cars get into accidents it is how much money are we paying out when these cars get into accidents/frequency of accidents. If you drive an army tank (which people have tried to insure with us) any claim is instantly catastrophic.
Author:  Diamondeye [ Thu Jul 22, 2010 10:15 am ]
Post subject:  Re:
Hopwin wrote:
Holy ****, we're talking about insurance? Liability is driven by the potential damage you might cause, not by how fast or expensive your car is. It's not as simple as how many of these types of cars get into accidents it is how much money are we paying out when these cars get into accidents/frequency of accidents. If you drive an army tank (which people have tried to insure with us) any claim is instantly catastrophic.


Frequency definitely is a factor though, because infrequent catastrohpic claims can end up costing less than frequent but less severe ones.

How in the hell has anyone tried to insure a tank for driving? You can't drive them on the public roads.
Author:  Hopwin [ Thu Jul 22, 2010 11:50 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Re:
Diamondeye wrote:
Hopwin wrote:
Holy ****, we're talking about insurance? Liability is driven by the potential damage you might cause, not by how fast or expensive your car is. It's not as simple as how many of these types of cars get into accidents it is how much money are we paying out when these cars get into accidents/frequency of accidents. If you drive an army tank (which people have tried to insure with us) any claim is instantly catastrophic.


Frequency definitely is a factor though, because infrequent catastrohpic claims can end up costing less than frequent but less severe ones.

How in the hell has anyone tried to insure a tank for driving? You can't drive them on the public roads.

It was a parade vehicle. You'd be surprised by what people try to insure.

Someone told us they used this on their farm... complete with the guns:
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