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An August Surprise from Obama? https://gladerebooted.net/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=3733 |
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Author: | Vindicarre [ Thu Aug 05, 2010 6:50 pm ] |
Post subject: | An August Surprise from Obama? |
Throw money at people, and they'll vote Democrat! An August Surprise from Obama? Spoiler: |
Author: | Kaffis Mark V [ Thu Aug 05, 2010 6:58 pm ] |
Post subject: | |
Fantastic. So now, instead of the rich subsidizing the poor, the practical and responsible are subsidizing the reckless bubble speculators? Joy. |
Author: | Taskiss [ Thu Aug 05, 2010 8:07 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: |
Kaffis Mark V wrote: Fantastic. So now, instead of the rich subsidizing the poor, the practical and responsible are subsidizing the reckless bubble speculators? Joy. Our kids are so ****. |
Author: | Rynar [ Thu Aug 05, 2010 9:23 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: An August Surprise from Obama? |
This era of American presidencies is literally courting open revolution at this stage. President Obama knows Milton Friedman was right. Major change doesn't arise democratically. It is spawned out of major economic upheaval. This administration is trying to create it in order to enact wholesale change. |
Author: | Ladas [ Thu Aug 05, 2010 9:33 pm ] |
Post subject: | |
Lets give the people least likely to repay the loans more opportunity to borrow, undermine the standards that were deliberately put into place to stabilize lending companies, and saddle a company that isn't really out of the quicksand with another chance to over extend. Brilliant. |
Author: | darksiege [ Thu Aug 05, 2010 9:48 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: |
Ladas wrote: Lets give the people least likely to repay the loans more opportunity to borrow, undermine the standards that were deliberately put into place to stabilize lending companies, and saddle a company that isn't really out of the quicksand with another chance to over extend. Brilliant. Dude, I noticed you missed one LARGE part of the plan... when it fails again: Blame the previous administration. |
Author: | Noggel [ Fri Aug 06, 2010 1:59 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: An August Surprise from Obama? |
Rynar wrote: This era of American presidencies is literally courting open revolution at this stage. President Obama knows Milton Friedman was right. Major change doesn't arise democratically. It is spawned out of major economic upheaval. This administration is trying to create it in order to enact wholesale change. So that's what he meant with his vague "change"! I'm usually of the opinion that it's difficult to make judgment calls on... just about anything, when you're an outsider without knowledge that the people on the inside making the decisions have. At this point, though, I simply can't come up with any devil's advocate defenses. What can something like this accomplish other than staving off an immediate problem and making it worse? This isn't even a long-term kind of delay, either. I can almost, almost go along with "start proper lending policies now and use taxpayer money to alleviate the problems resulting from the recent bad policy years" but a) that's hardly commendable to begin with, using money in such a way and b) even devil's-advocate-me won't believe the administration would be supportive of this sort of conservative shoring up. It would seem too much like doing nothing, with the negative of bailing out irresponsible homeowners. I do sometimes worry about the whole "we must take charge of the situation and do something" ideology. A lot of the time it is correct. It's almost always a risk, though, and when that risk turns sour... maybe I'm just too conservative (in the non-political sense) but I'm not fond of such high stakes gambling, even if I liked the basic ideas behind it (which I don't). The whole spending more, more, more seems like it's the current administration's answer to everything -- gambling gambling gambling. |
Author: | Monte [ Fri Aug 06, 2010 9:16 am ] |
Post subject: | |
Awesome news. HAMP was a total ****, and doing something for millions of Americans drowning in debt is something that should have happened a long time ago. |
Author: | Screeling [ Fri Aug 06, 2010 9:30 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: |
Monte wrote: Awesome news. HAMP was a total ****, and doing something for millions of Americans drowning in debt is something that should have happened a long time ago. Your lunacy knows no bounds. |
Author: | RangerDave [ Fri Aug 06, 2010 9:44 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: An August Surprise from Obama? |
That article provides zero evidence that this is something the Obama Administration is considering. There is, quite literally, not a single statement or action by any Democrat, let alone from someone in the Administration, indicating this is going to happen. All the article says is that Treasury has the power to do this, that it might arguably help Obama politically, and that "rumors are running wild from Washington to Wall Street"; "Republican leaders believe this is going to happen"; "Wall Street banks are alerting their clients privately to this possibility"; and "Morgan Stanley is pushing a mortgage relief plan directly to Congress". Maybe this'll happen; maybe it won't. But the cited article is really nothing more than speculation on the part of a reporter looking for something to write about. |
Author: | Ladas [ Fri Aug 06, 2010 9:49 am ] |
Post subject: | |
I think we all realize that RD, but my comments at least were regarding the concept. What are yours if the theory comes to pass? |
Author: | Vindicarre [ Fri Aug 06, 2010 10:24 am ] |
Post subject: | |
Yes, RD, that's exactly what it is, an opinion piece about rumors. That's why the question mark was used, and the fact that it was based on rumors is right there in the piece, at the top. |
Author: | Taskiss [ Fri Aug 06, 2010 10:47 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: Re: |
Screeling wrote: Monte wrote: Awesome news. HAMP was a total ****, and doing something for millions of Americans drowning in debt is something that should have happened a long time ago. Your lunacy knows no bounds. I don't know... People without a pot to pee in nor a window to throw it out of if they had are quite logical when they desire the things that folks have that actually earned what they have. I don't think it qualifies as lunacy... It does qualify as dishonest, asinine, boorish, bastardly, cowardly, and pusillanimous...but not actually lunacy. Someone is allowing these losers to breed, THAT'S what qualifies as lunacy. The drain on this country and their fellow man they cause... it should be criminal. You know, I'm set for life, but my kids...they'll pay the price. What these bastards are doing they should be castrated for. |
Author: | Arathain Kelvar [ Fri Aug 06, 2010 11:28 am ] |
Post subject: | |
Heh. This could be worth a lot of money to me. My house has dropped more than the 20% I put down on it. I can pay my mortgage, of course, but I can't refinance since I owe more than it's worth. So, forgiving the underwater portion of the debt would allow me to refinance and take advantage of the 4.2% fixed interest rates. So, about $20,000 or so of debt would be forgiven, and I'd reduce my interest rate by 2.3 points over the next 30 years. Windfall. |
Author: | Ladas [ Fri Aug 06, 2010 12:18 pm ] |
Post subject: | |
Just FYI, the Treasury Department has officially responded to the rumors and claims there is no such plan being considered. |
Author: | Rynar [ Fri Aug 06, 2010 1:33 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: An August Surprise from Obama? |
Heh, much like Arathian this would save me a ton of money personally. That said, I'm very much against it. |
Author: | Ladas [ Fri Aug 06, 2010 2:08 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: An August Surprise from Obama? |
Rynar wrote: Heh, much like Arathian this would save me a ton of money personally. And that's why you both fail.... this is supposed to free more of you borrowing capacity to spend on other consumer goods so that some bubble can be inflated, not savings. |
Author: | Taskiss [ Fri Aug 06, 2010 2:24 pm ] |
Post subject: | |
My house it worth more than I paid for it 2 years ago, at least according to Zillow. I also bid on 7 houses before I found a seller who would sell at what we considered to be the future value of the house instead of what they thought the present value was. It may be that the house will go down in value from here - the house is on Zillow at just a couple of grand over what we paid. Even so, I don't think I'd get much help from the government if that happened, nor would I want or expect any. |
Author: | DFK! [ Fri Aug 06, 2010 3:04 pm ] |
Post subject: | |
Goddammit. Maybe I really should just stop paying my mortgage... |
Author: | Rynar [ Fri Aug 06, 2010 3:48 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: An August Surprise from Obama? |
DFK! wrote: Goddammit. Maybe I really should just stop paying my mortgage... I have been seriously considering doing exactly that, and doing the same with the property we have in my honey's name. |
Author: | Monte [ Fri Aug 06, 2010 3:50 pm ] |
Post subject: | |
I'm a lunatic because I think that government spending increases aggregate demand? I'm a lunatic because I think the government should have bailed out homeowners caught by the burst housing bubble in order to help the overall economy? Apparently that qualifies as lunacy. Whatever you need, lol. |
Author: | Rynar [ Fri Aug 06, 2010 3:55 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: |
Monte wrote: I'm a lunatic because I think that government spending increases aggregate demand? I'm a lunatic because I think the government should have bailed out homeowners caught by the burst housing bubble in order to help the overall economy? Apparently that qualifies as lunacy. Whatever you need, lol. You are a lunatic because you feel that you have a right to profit on an investment. |
Author: | Xequecal [ Fri Aug 06, 2010 3:56 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: An August Surprise from Obama? |
Just throwing this out there: Isn't forgiving a portion of the mortgage a better plan than losing the entire sum to default? (strategic or otherwise) |
Author: | Taskiss [ Fri Aug 06, 2010 3:59 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: An August Surprise from Obama? |
Xequecal wrote: Just throwing this out there: Isn't forgiving a portion of the mortgage a better plan than losing the entire sum to default? (strategic or otherwise) When the lender takes over from a default, they can resell the property. The lender won't lose the entire sum, and the US taxpayers won't go even farther in the hole. Hopefully the people that defaulted paid at least some of the difference between what was owed and what the property is worth. |
Author: | Monte [ Fri Aug 06, 2010 4:00 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: Re: |
Rynar wrote: Monte wrote: I'm a lunatic because I think that government spending increases aggregate demand? I'm a lunatic because I think the government should have bailed out homeowners caught by the burst housing bubble in order to help the overall economy? Apparently that qualifies as lunacy. Whatever you need, lol. You are a lunatic because you feel that you have a right to profit on an investment. If I actually thought that, you might have a point. (you wouldn't, mind you. Lunacy is believing that Austrian Economics are actually valid, or that Sarah Palin is qualified to be President). But I don't think that. I think that folks got caught up in a bubble, and the particulars of that bubble made it something that had lots of effects beyond the individuals who bought into it. I think that spending money on fixing that problem is useful, not only from the perspective of helping people in need, but also from an overall economic perspective. Helping them puts their money back into the economy, which helps everyone out. In my opinion, bailing out homeowners has both a humanitarian purpose *and* a pragmatic purpose. |
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