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The war on drugs, Mexico side
https://gladerebooted.net/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=3987
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Author:  Uncle Fester [ Wed Aug 25, 2010 2:00 pm ]
Post subject:  The war on drugs, Mexico side

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000142 ... opStories#

Quote:
MEXICO CITY—Mexico's increasingly violent war on organized crime hit a new low on Wednesday after the discovery of 72 bodies at a remote ranch near the U.S. border.

The gruesome discovery of 58 men and 14 women came after a firefight between presumed gunmen from a drug cartel and Mexican Navy marines. One marine and three drug gang members were killed in the two-hour battle, the Navy said in a statement late on Tuesday.

The bodies were all discovered in a warehouse on a ranch in Tamaulipas state, 90 miles from the Texas border, the Navy said.

A federal official said the victims may have been migrants from Central and South America making their way to the United States and killed by the drug gang, according to the Associated Press.

Mexican newspaper El Universal, quoting a federal official, said the migrants may have been captured by a drug gang and were killed after refusing to work for the cartel, either as gunmen or in other areas of organized crime like prostitution.

Excelsior newspaper said investigators believed the victims had all been killed at roughly the same time—raising the possibility that they were killed in one, single massacre.
Mexico's War on Drugs

Review key events in the fight to break the grip of Mexico's drug cartels.


Nearly 23,000 people have died in drug-related violence since 2006, according to the government, with northern border states experiencing the worst of the violence.

The incident began when an unidentified man approached a nearby Navy checkpoint and asked for help, saying he had been shot in a nearby ranch. The man is being treated at a hospital and is cooperating with authorities, the Navy said in its statement.

When marines went to check out the ranch, they came under heavy fire, the statement said.

Already some 28,000 people have died in Mexico's war on organized crime since President Felipe Calderon took power in December, 2006 and declared an all-out battle against powerful drug trafficking gangs that were gaining immense power and challenging the Mexican state.

The death toll is rising fast, including more frequent discoveries of mass graves. In May, authorities discovered 55 bodies in an abandoned mine near Taxco, a colonial-era city popular with tourists and famous for its silver. Last month, another 51 bodies were found near a trash dump outside the northern city of Monterrey, a business capital that has been hard hit by a wave of drug-related crimes.

Both of those mass graves were sites where drug gangs disposed of rivals killed as part of an ongoing battle between cartels for the spoils of organized crime, including lucrative drug-smuggling routes into the U.S.

Tamaulipas has become one of Mexico's bloodiest states since the dominant local cartel, the Gulf cartel, split with its former allies, a bloodthirsty gang called Los Zetas. Mexican officials believe the Zetas, for instance, are responsible both for the recent assassination of a leading gubernatorial candidate in Tamaulipas and the recent killing of a local mayor.

The Zetas have also kidnapped and executed migrants before, according to officials and experts in organized crime.


....holy crap!

Author:  darksiege [ Wed Aug 25, 2010 3:32 pm ]
Post subject: 

Now this may sound stupid...

But if the Mexican gorram government is trying to eradicate the cartels... why would it not behoove us to help out and kill us some trafficers? I bet it would do good in helping build diplomatic relations with Mexico and if we help clear the shitstains out of their Country... they would not have as much reason to try and sneak across the border to escape their crappy country.

win-win. TADA!

Author:  Rorinthas [ Wed Aug 25, 2010 4:21 pm ]
Post subject: 

You make the assumption that the Mexican government wants to actually stand up to the cartels?

Author:  darksiege [ Wed Aug 25, 2010 5:09 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The war on drugs, Mexico side

Quote:
Already some 28,000 people have died in Mexico's war on organized crime since President Felipe Calderon took power in December, 2006 and declared an all-out battle against powerful drug trafficking gangs that were gaining immense power and challenging the Mexican state.


Just basing my comment on this right here.

Author:  Diamondeye [ Wed Aug 25, 2010 6:06 pm ]
Post subject: 

That probably depends on which part of the Mexican government you're talking about.

Author:  Wwen [ Wed Aug 25, 2010 8:08 pm ]
Post subject: 

If we really wanted to sap the power of drug cartels, we'd legalize drugs.

Author:  Hopwin [ Wed Aug 25, 2010 8:12 pm ]
Post subject:  Re:

Wwen wrote:
If we really wanted to sap the power of drug cartels, we'd legalize drugs.

Because that broke the backs of agribusiness so effectively? ;)

Author:  Screeling [ Thu Aug 26, 2010 8:44 am ]
Post subject: 

We don't need to worry because our border is the most secure it's ever been.

Author:  Hannibal [ Thu Aug 26, 2010 12:26 pm ]
Post subject:  Re:

darksiege wrote:
Now this may sound stupid...

But if the Mexican gorram government is trying to eradicate the cartels... why would it not behoove us to help out and kill us some trafficers? I bet it would do good in helping build diplomatic relations with Mexico and if we help clear the shitstains out of their Country... they would not have as much reason to try and sneak across the border to escape their crappy country.

win-win. TADA!


I believe that the only reason more violence hasn't spilled over to the US is because the Cartels do not want the US heavily involved. But, if we remove that one barrier by sticking our nose in Mexicos affair (that whole foregin entanglement grenade) we will be opening ourselves to people who are willing and capable of attacking us at home. That then means we are fighting a third front (iraq, afghanistan then mexico?). We can't do it. Not because we lack the capacity for violence, we lack the political will to finish the job.

IMO, close and really secure the boarders, let mexico rise or fall of its own accord and open dialogue with whatever political power that arises. This isn't just a group of hippies with shotguns guarding their stash. Its a well armed, trained and funded paramilitary force with an actual objective.

Author:  Lex Luthor [ Thu Aug 26, 2010 2:48 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The war on drugs, Mexico side

Drug violence is nothing new to Mexico, although this incident is notable in its size, being the biggest single discovery of its kind. The history of the Mexican Drug War is quite extensive, tracing back to the days of Pablo Escobar. I don't wish to recount any of it here.

The question of how to resolve the drug war remains unclear. The violence is almost entirely a Mexican issue, although the proximity to our borders is alarming. Also alarming is the fact that the Mexican government can't resolve this on their own, despite years of combating the cartels. Clearly rampant corruption is a contributing factor to its ineptitude. Some options do exist for us, but none of them seem particularly good.

I doubt it would be good for the U.S. to send troops into Mexico. It would be costly in terms of money and possibly lives. We would also first need to sign a treaty with the Mexican government; to do otherwise is a violation of their sovereignty.

Greater policing of the borders on our side could help, but this is difficult since the border is so large. We could of course police the most trafficked points, but the smart traffickers would soon find alternative routes. If it is actually effective and less traffickers get through, the cartels in Mexico would lose money and theoretically crime in Mexico would drop. It would also reduce illegal immigration. I am not sure of the following point, but the increased border policing might also be expensive in terms of logistics. However this isn't really a true solution. It is like putting duct tape over a mouse's hole.

Another option is to give aid to the Mexican government to combat the cartels. This is clearly a bad solution because the cartels would manage to get a hold of it. It'd be like the situation in Somalia in the early 90's.

So what should we do? I think we should just wait around until violence or other notable crime makes its way into U.S. soil. Not a solution at all, but it's my opinion for now.

Author:  Diamondeye [ Thu Aug 26, 2010 8:42 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The war on drugs, Mexico side

Quote:
I doubt it would be good for the U.S. to send troops into Mexico. It would be costly in terms of money and possibly lives. We would also first need to sign a treaty with the Mexican government; to do otherwise is a violation of their sovereignty.


Not that I think we ought to get involved militarily in Mexico, but really it doesn't matter that it would be a violation of their sovereignty. If the situation were so bad that we actually did need to, we could just decalre war, invade, and make Mexcio states 51-60. Sovereignty is not a sacred cow.

Author:  Taskiss [ Fri Aug 27, 2010 6:29 am ]
Post subject:  Re: The war on drugs, Mexico side

Diamondeye wrote:
Sovereignty is not a sacred cow.

It is when it's ours.

Legalize pot. It's more trouble than it's worth to keep fighting what folks want, especially when it doesn't hurt them.

Author:  Diamondeye [ Fri Aug 27, 2010 10:39 am ]
Post subject:  Re: The war on drugs, Mexico side

Taskiss wrote:
Diamondeye wrote:
Sovereignty is not a sacred cow.

It is when it's ours.

Legalize pot. It's more trouble than it's worth to keep fighting what folks want, especially when it doesn't hurt them.


Sure, internally to our country it is, in terms of how we decide our own policies. Our sovereignty isn't a sacred cow to any other country. Same for Mexico; theirs is a sacred cow to them; not to anyone else. Why do you think they encourage so many people to come here but are so draconian about their own border to the south?

We're just better able to protect our sovereignty.

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