The Glade 4.0

"Turn the lights down, the party just got wilder."
It is currently Sun Nov 24, 2024 10:46 am

All times are UTC - 6 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 26 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next
Author Message
PostPosted: Fri Sep 17, 2010 3:02 pm 
Offline

Joined: Fri Sep 04, 2009 10:27 am
Posts: 2169
Elizabeth Warren gets a new job, despite being called unconformable.

Interesting read from the WSJ, though it is an opinion piece, so some exaggeration might be included:

Quote:
Whatever else can be said about this White House, it isn't afraid to poke a stick in the eye of its critics. How else to explain President Obama's decision Friday to put Elizabeth Warren in charge of the new Consumer Financial Protection Bureau while avoiding Senate confirmation and, for that matter, any political supervision.

The chutzpah here is something to behold. The pride of Harvard Law School, Ms. Warren is a hero to the political left for proposing a new bureaucracy to micromanage the services that banks can offer consumers. But she is also so politically controversial that no less a liberal lion than Connecticut Senator Chris Dodd has warned the White House that she probably isn't confirmable. A President with more political and Constitutional scruple would have nominated someone else. Mr. Obama's choice is to appoint her anyway and dare the Senate to do something about it.

The plan is for Ms. Warren to run the new bureau from an office at the Treasury Department. Instead of calling her the "Director" of the bureau—the statutory title for the organization's boss—Mr. Obama has appointed her an "assistant" to him and a "special advisor" to Treasury Secretary Timothy Geithner.

Mr. Geithner's supervision will be pro forma, however, because Ms. Warren rolled over him during the financial reform debate and has her own pipeline to the Oval Office. The President emphasized that Ms. Warren will enjoy "direct access" to him and said she would oversee all aspects of the creation of the new agency, including staffing and policy planning. For all intents and purposes, Ms. Warren will be Treasury Secretary for all consumer lending.

We would have thought a Harvard law professor would object to the extra-legality of this arrangement, but then this is also the crew that gave us ObamaCare via budget reconciliation and put Donald Berwick in charge of Medicare without a Senate debate. Remind us again why the tea party critique of Obama governance is crazy.

The new bureau was already destined to be a bureaucratic rogue. When Members of Congress objected to it being "independent" in the way Ms. Warren hoped, Mr. Dodd and the Administration cooked up a plan to make it part of the Federal Reserve without actually answering to anyone there. The bureau has independent rule-making authority and can grant itself an annual budget up to $646 million. It will draw this money from the operations of the Fed, so the bureau needn't deal with the messy intrusions of Congressional appropriators and will therefore receive limited Congressional oversight.

Ms. Warren's bureau will dictate how credit is allocated throughout the American economy—by banks and financial firms, and also by many small businesses that extend credit to consumers. The bureau's mandate under the new Dodd-Frank law is to ensure that "consumers are protected from unfair, deceptive, or abusive acts and practices and from discrimination." If those terms sound vague and overbroad now, wait until Ms. Warren's hand-picked staff begins interpreting existing laws on fair lending and writes new rules.

In a blog posting Friday on the White House website, Ms. Warren made her intentions clear enough: "President Obama understands the importance of leveling the playing field again for families and creating protections that work not just for the wealthy or connected, but for every American." Given the economic growth and jobless figures, maybe we should start calling this the "leveling" Administration.

Though her mandate goes beyond banks, the banking system is likely to suffer the most damage. Ms. Warren was a vociferous opponent of allowing regulators charged with maintaining the safety and soundness of banks to control this new bureau. No matter how destructive its new rules may be, they can only be rescinded by a two-thirds vote of the Administration's new Financial Stability Oversight Council.

And the bureau will now be staffed and shaped by an "assistant" with no obligation to appear before the Senate. The possibility that an appointed official could hold significant authority is why the framers wrote the Senate into the process of approving the President's senior hires. Article II, Section 2 of the Constitution says the President "shall nominate, and by and with the Advice and Consent of the Senate, shall appoint . . . Officers of the United States."

Article II, Section 2 also says "Congress may by Law vest the Appointment of such inferior Officers, as they think proper, in the President alone," but Congress explicitly did not view the head of the financial consumer bureau as an inferior officer. On July 21, Mr. Obama signed a bill passed by both Houses stating that the "Director shall be appointed by the President, by and with the advice and consent of the Senate."

We have here another end-run around Constitutional niceties so Team Obama can invest huge authority in an unelected official who is unable to withstand a public vetting. So a bureau inside an agency (the Fed) that it doesn't report to, with a budget not subject to Congressional control, now gets a leader not subject to Senate confirmation. If Dick Cheney had tried this, he'd have been accused of staging a coup.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Sep 17, 2010 3:22 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Sep 02, 2009 7:59 pm
Posts: 9412
Impeach the bastard.

Alternately, budget the Bureau out of existence, since it has no Director and thus must not have anything to do to be directed.

_________________
"Aaaah! Emotions are weird!" - Amdee
"... Mirrorshades prevent the forces of normalcy from realizing that one is crazed and possibly dangerous. They are the symbol of the sun-staring visionary, the biker, the rocker, the policeman, and similar outlaws." - Bruce Sterling, preface to Mirrorshades


Last edited by Kaffis Mark V on Fri Sep 17, 2010 3:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Sep 17, 2010 3:23 pm 
Offline
The King
User avatar

Joined: Thu Sep 03, 2009 8:34 am
Posts: 3219
And people continue to defend this fool.

_________________
"It is true that democracy undermines freedom when voters believe they can live off of others' productivity, when they modify the commandment: 'Thou shalt not steal, except by majority vote.' The politics of plunder is no doubt destructive of both morality and the division of labor."


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Sep 17, 2010 3:27 pm 
Offline
The Game Master.
User avatar

Joined: Wed Sep 02, 2009 10:01 pm
Posts: 3729
So all credit in the United States is going to be regulated by a bureaucrat with no oversight, no confirmation, and no real boss except the supreme executive?

I just want to understand this properly.

_________________
“The duty of a patriot is to protect his country from its government.” - Thomas Paine


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Sep 17, 2010 3:48 pm 
Offline
adorabalicious
User avatar

Joined: Thu Sep 03, 2009 10:54 am
Posts: 5094
Anyone of you read the crazy things shes said before about how things should work?

Here comes the inflation train baby.

_________________
"...but there exists also in the human heart a depraved taste for equality, which impels the weak to attempt to lower the powerful to their own level and reduces men to prefer equality in slavery to inequality with freedom." - De Tocqueville


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Sep 17, 2010 5:28 pm 
Offline
Grrr... Eat your oatmeal!!
User avatar

Joined: Wed Sep 02, 2009 11:07 pm
Posts: 5073
I suddenly understand why a former colleague of mine killed himself the day after Obama was elected.

_________________
Darksiege
Traveller, Calé, Whisperer
Lead me not into temptation; for I know a shortcut


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Sep 17, 2010 6:16 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue Jan 26, 2010 10:36 am
Posts: 3083
Is this different really that different than all the other "policy czars" and "special advisors" Presidents have been using for the last few decades, though? Honest question. I get how this kind of moves the ball a bit further down the field toward a less accountable Executive, but it seems like just another step in that direction, not the unprecedented usurpation Republicans are claiming. Honestly, their reaction seems to be a replay of the "zomg, czars!" hyperventilating from last year.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Sep 17, 2010 6:27 pm 
Offline
Consummate Professional
User avatar

Joined: Mon Sep 07, 2009 9:23 am
Posts: 920
Location: The battlefield. As always.
Last I checked, czars, while extremely silly, were ultimately purely advisory. This seems to be a regulatory position.

_________________
Image

Grenade 3 Sports Drink. It's fire in the hole.. Your hole!


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re:
PostPosted: Fri Sep 17, 2010 7:37 pm 
Offline
The Game Master.
User avatar

Joined: Wed Sep 02, 2009 10:01 pm
Posts: 3729
RangerDave wrote:
Is this different really that different than all the other "policy czars" and "special advisors" Presidents have been using for the last few decades, though? Honest question. I get how this kind of moves the ball a bit further down the field toward a less accountable Executive, but it seems like just another step in that direction, not the unprecedented usurpation Republicans are claiming. Honestly, their reaction seems to be a replay of the "zomg, czars!" hyperventilating from last year.


Yes.

Reason 1:
Dalantia wrote:
Last I checked, czars, while extremely silly, were ultimately purely advisory. This seems to be a regulatory position.


Reason 2: She's creating her own administration from the ground up.

Reason 3: Due to the ambiguity of the law in question, her new administration she's creating from the ground up can effectively legislate via rulemaking.

Reason 4: Due to the intrusiveness of the law, this rulemaking can affect (as I understand it) basically every transaction in the country involving the extension of credit.

_________________
“The duty of a patriot is to protect his country from its government.” - Thomas Paine


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Fri Sep 17, 2010 8:17 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sat Oct 24, 2009 5:44 pm
Posts: 2315
The thing is Timothy Geithner doesn't have to do what she says. He obviously will, but is this really any different from the President calling up any department or bureau head and threatening them with termination or other nasty consequences if they don't implement whatever agenda? That is completely Constitutional, as the President can fire any of them whenever he wants. By appointing Warren in this manner Obama isn't really exhibiting any leverage that he didn't have before.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Fri Sep 17, 2010 8:19 pm 
Offline
Not a F'n Boy Scout
User avatar

Joined: Tue Sep 15, 2009 12:10 pm
Posts: 5202
Yes, because the legislative branch is being compeletely circumvented. If President Obama fires someone, he needs to replace them, and their replacement needs to be confirmed by congress. It is a check on executive power.

_________________
Quote:
19 Yet she became more and more promiscuous as she recalled the days of her youth, when she was a prostitute in Egypt. 20 There she lusted after her lovers, whose genitals were like those of donkeys and whose emission was like that of horses.

Ezekiel 23:19-20 


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Fri Sep 17, 2010 8:25 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sat Oct 24, 2009 5:44 pm
Posts: 2315
Rynar wrote:
Yes, because the legislative branch is being compeletely circumvented. If President Obama fires someone, he needs to replace them, and their replacement needs to be confirmed by congress. It is a check on executive power.


Okay, so Geithner could refuse to listen to Warren. Obama would not be able to do anything about it other than fire him, and then try to get someone else appointed that would require confirmation. The fact that Geithner is going to act as a puppet sucks, but it doesn't really change anything, every President in the past could always appoint a puppet, they would still have to be confirmed.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Sep 17, 2010 8:31 pm 
Offline
Not a F'n Boy Scout
User avatar

Joined: Tue Sep 15, 2009 12:10 pm
Posts: 5202
Congress has to confirm them in order for them to be a puppet.

_________________
Quote:
19 Yet she became more and more promiscuous as she recalled the days of her youth, when she was a prostitute in Egypt. 20 There she lusted after her lovers, whose genitals were like those of donkeys and whose emission was like that of horses.

Ezekiel 23:19-20 


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re:
PostPosted: Fri Sep 17, 2010 8:32 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sat Oct 24, 2009 5:44 pm
Posts: 2315
Rynar wrote:
Congress has to confirm them in order for them to be a puppet.


Yes, they do. Geithner was confirmed, there's no problem here.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Sep 18, 2010 9:54 am 
Offline

Joined: Fri Sep 04, 2009 10:27 am
Posts: 2169
I'm not sure why in this arrangement you think Geitner will even have a say, much less be the one that has to implement anything.

This new agency will mostly likely have complete reign on the mandated areas and make the decisions.

The only thing Geitner has to worry about is getting called before Congress to answer for the actions of a group within his department over which he has no control.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re:
PostPosted: Sat Sep 18, 2010 1:09 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sat Oct 24, 2009 5:44 pm
Posts: 2315
Ladas wrote:
I'm not sure why in this arrangement you think Geitner will even have a say, much less be the one that has to implement anything.

This new agency will mostly likely have complete reign on the mandated areas and make the decisions.

The only thing Geitner has to worry about is getting called before Congress to answer for the actions of a group within his department over which he has no control.


I don't think Geitner will be making the decisions. But the fact is, Warren only has authority because Geitner consents to it. Obama hasn't carved himself out additional executive power with this process. Geitner was confirmed by the Senate, he has full authority, and can overrule Warren at any time until Obama fires him, in which case Obama would have to replace him with someone that the Senate would have to confirm. One could argue that Obama's method is actually somewhat more transparent than it could be, at least everyone knows who Warren is and what her job is. He could just have some random person with no official position relay his demands secretly to Geitner.

Remember Watergate? When Nixon wanted to be rid of the special prosecutor prosecuting him, he simply fired Justice Department head after Justice Department head until he found someone that would do so.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Sep 18, 2010 4:51 pm 
Offline
The Game Master.
User avatar

Joined: Wed Sep 02, 2009 10:01 pm
Posts: 3729
Why do you think Geithner would not have to listen to her?

Did you read the original? Are you familiar with the bill?

If we take the OP at face value, the bill is written such that this administrator reports directly to PrezBO.

_________________
“The duty of a patriot is to protect his country from its government.” - Thomas Paine


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Sat Sep 18, 2010 10:58 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sat Oct 24, 2009 5:44 pm
Posts: 2315
What consequences are there for Geithner, other than being fired by Obama, for refusing to do what Warren says? He's still the head of this department. Whoever Warren reports to is irrelevant. Geithner is the head of the Treasury department and the Treasury department does what he says, not what Warren says.

Obama cannot create what is essentially a new Cabinet position and hand them a staff, paying their salaries and giving them regulatory ability without involving Congress at all.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Sun Sep 19, 2010 9:23 am 
Offline

Joined: Fri Sep 04, 2009 10:27 am
Posts: 2169
Xequecal wrote:
Obama cannot create what is essentially a new Cabinet position and hand them a staff, paying their salaries and giving them regulatory ability without involving Congress at all.

Yet that is exactly what it appears he is trying to do.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Sun Sep 19, 2010 3:59 pm 
Offline
Evil Bastard™
User avatar

Joined: Thu Sep 03, 2009 9:07 am
Posts: 7542
Location: Doomstadt, Latveria
Xequecal wrote:
Obama cannot create what is essentially a new Cabinet position and hand them a staff, paying their salaries and giving them regulatory ability without involving Congress at all.
Except, that's exactly what he's doing.

_________________
Corolinth wrote:
Facism is not a school of thought, it is a racial slur.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Sun Sep 19, 2010 8:18 pm 
Offline
adorabalicious
User avatar

Joined: Thu Sep 03, 2009 10:54 am
Posts: 5094
Xequecal wrote:
What consequences are there for Geithner, other than being fired by Obama, for refusing to do what Warren says? He's still the head of this department. Whoever Warren reports to is irrelevant. Geithner is the head of the Treasury department and the Treasury department does what he says, not what Warren says.

Obama cannot create what is essentially a new Cabinet position and hand them a staff, paying their salaries and giving them regulatory ability without involving Congress at all.



Anyone can do whatever they wish to until someone else stops them.

_________________
"...but there exists also in the human heart a depraved taste for equality, which impels the weak to attempt to lower the powerful to their own level and reduces men to prefer equality in slavery to inequality with freedom." - De Tocqueville


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Mon Sep 20, 2010 10:08 am 
Offline
Lean, Mean, Googling Machine
User avatar

Joined: Thu Sep 03, 2009 9:35 am
Posts: 2903
Location: Maze of twisty little passages, all alike
Kaffis Mark V wrote:
Alternately, budget the Bureau out of existence, since it has no Director and thus must not have anything to do to be directed.

Yeah, about that...
WSJ wrote:
The bureau [...] can grant itself an annual budget up to $646 million. It will draw this money from the operations of the Fed, so the bureau needn't deal with the messy intrusions of Congressional appropriators and will therefore receive limited Congressional oversight.


@RangerDave, Xequecal:

RangerDave wrote:
Is this different really that different than all the other "policy czars" and "special advisors" [...]

Xequecal wrote:
By appointing Warren in this manner Obama isn't really exhibiting any leverage that he didn't have before.

In addition to the explanations already given as to why this is different, I'll just point out that all you're saying here is that we should accept new abuses of power and constitutional loop-holes because old abuses of power and constitutional loop-holes still exist. I propose that we should eradicate both.

_________________
Sail forth! steer for the deep waters only!
Reckless, O soul, exploring, I with thee, and thou with me;
For we are bound where mariner has not yet dared to go,
And we will risk the ship, ourselves and all.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Sep 20, 2010 10:21 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Sep 02, 2009 7:59 pm
Posts: 9412
Wow, that's a dream job. "I get to draw my own budget without legislative approval, and have no defined responsibilities subject to legal action.
"You know what? I'm firing everybody. My bureau of one will need an annual budget of 600 million dollars. When it comes time for a performance review, I'm going to write down: 'Cut expenses and saved the taxpayer 46 million dollars. Declined a raise.' and submit that to my buddy Obama for my boss's approval..."

_________________
"Aaaah! Emotions are weird!" - Amdee
"... Mirrorshades prevent the forces of normalcy from realizing that one is crazed and possibly dangerous. They are the symbol of the sun-staring visionary, the biker, the rocker, the policeman, and similar outlaws." - Bruce Sterling, preface to Mirrorshades


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Mon Sep 20, 2010 11:06 am 
Offline

Joined: Tue Jan 26, 2010 10:36 am
Posts: 3083
Stathol wrote:
In addition to the explanations already given as to why this is different, I'll just point out that all you're saying here is that we should accept new abuses of power and constitutional loop-holes because old abuses of power and constitutional loop-holes still exist. I propose that we should eradicate both.

Not really; I'm just saying that selective outrage makes me suspect that neither the outrage nor the alleged abuse are particularly genuine. (Note: this comment is aimed at the professionally outraged pundits and politicians; not folks here. I don't doubt the genuineness of anyone's concern here.)


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Thu Sep 23, 2010 7:07 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sat Oct 24, 2009 5:44 pm
Posts: 2315
I still find it very difficult to believe that Geithner is completely out of the loop on this issue, that he couldn't do anything about it if he wanted to. Obama cannot appropriate Treasury department funding for a pet project without the consent of either Congress or the Treasury secretary. If he can do that, then he can take money from anywhere and spend it on anything, and Congress itself has become largely superfluous as everything comes down to money.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 26 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next

All times are UTC - 6 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 101 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group