The Glade 4.0 :: View topic - Making a business out of copy right laws

The thing I love is that the extortion can be avoided quite simply, too. People just don't want "so don't pirate" to be the answer.

So that makes the extortion right?

Copyright owners will never win. Copyright is an artificial and bizarre concept that cannot withstand technology. It doesn't belong to the people who are taking it, because it doesn't belong to anybody. It's thought, it's data, it's air. It's common domain. The law will never recognize that, which is fine because current government models which support this ridiculous concept are collapsing under their own weight anyway. Digital anarchy will eventually reign supreme, and we'll be better off for it.

The thing I love is that the extortion can be avoided quite simply, too. People just don't want "so don't pirate" to be the answer.

As to the law firms...I'm going to regard this much like I do personal injury lawyers. In principle, there's nothing wrong with them. In practice, though, they're frequently nothing more than legalized extortioneers who damage society rather than defending rights.

Talya wrote:

And until it does, if you get caught, you get to be extorted and/or judged against. I'm fine with that. It's just pretty silly to cry foul when it happens.

Kaffis Mark V wrote:

The thing I love is that the extortion can be avoided quite simply, too. People just don't want "so don't pirate" to be the answer.

I get this, but it's problematic. Suppose that the police were just beating the ever-loving **** out of people the caught shop-lifting. I can certainly understand not having much sympathy for anyone so affected, but "who cares? It only happens to thieves!" wouldn't be the right answer to that situation. Wrongdoings of the defendants doesn't justify wrongdoing by the prosecution.

I think Jerun pretty much has the right of it. Both "sides" are screwed up and using really shitty justification for their actions. Turning to pragmatics, then, I'm inclined to believe that the IP police are presently doing more harm to society than the copyright offenders.

As to the law firms...I'm going to regard this much like I do personal injury lawyers. In principle, there's nothing wrong with them. In practice, though, they're frequently nothing more than legalized extortioneers who damage society rather than defending rights.

Author:	Wwen [ Thu Oct 07, 2010 6:00 pm ]
Post subject:	Making a business out of copy right laws
http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/news ... er-did.ars Pretty sickening.

Author:	Kaffis Mark V [ Thu Oct 07, 2010 7:33 pm ]
Post subject:
Why? They're helping copyright holders defend their right to profit from the distribution of their copyrighted content. Does it suck up a lot of court time? I'm not sure. How much time does it take to get the subpoena for the ISPs? It sounds like the cases, once that data is obtained, are being settled out of court, rather than going on to clog the court system with actual trials.

Author:	Jeryn [ Thu Oct 07, 2010 11:05 pm ]
Post subject:
This is such a great issue. On one side you have people wanting to be awarded compensatory and punitive damages that are just wildly beyond anything rational, and require these speculative leaps on the order of "just sharing this file means 50,000 people didn't go buy the song" or something. And like this article gets into, there's a burgeoning market of people who will basically cave to extortion to avoid the greater cost of litigation. And on the other side, well not the actual defendants' side, but the people who are generally commenting on this kind of thing, you have people making these fascinating constructs to defend, in a nutshell, taking **** without paying for it and then redistributing it, because, you know, the business model is antiquated and they just had it coming. Or something. There is just so much wrong, it's hard to find somewhere to start.

Author:	Kaffis Mark V [ Fri Oct 08, 2010 12:10 am ]
Post subject:
The thing I love is that the extortion can be avoided quite simply, too. People just don't want "so don't pirate" to be the answer.

Author:	Talya [ Fri Oct 08, 2010 6:55 am ]
Post subject:
So that makes the extortion right? Copyright owners will never win. Copyright is an artificial and bizarre concept that cannot withstand technology. It doesn't belong to the people who are taking it, because it doesn't belong to anybody. It's thought, it's data, it's air. It's common domain. The law will never recognize that, which is fine because current government models which support this ridiculous concept are collapsing under their own weight anyway. Digital anarchy will eventually reign supreme, and we'll be better off for it.

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Making a business out of copy right laws https://gladerebooted.net/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=4375	Page 1 of 1

Author:	Hopwin [ Fri Oct 08, 2010 6:55 am ]
Post subject:	Re:
Kaffis Mark V wrote: The thing I love is that the extortion can be avoided quite simply, too. People just don't want "so don't pirate" to be the answer. ^^ Basically these law firms have created online speed traps and everyone wants to cry foul.

Author:	Kaffis Mark V [ Fri Oct 08, 2010 8:26 am ]
Post subject:	Re:
Talya wrote: So that makes the extortion right? Copyright owners will never win. Copyright is an artificial and bizarre concept that cannot withstand technology. It doesn't belong to the people who are taking it, because it doesn't belong to anybody. It's thought, it's data, it's air. It's common domain. The law will never recognize that, which is fine because current government models which support this ridiculous concept are collapsing under their own weight anyway. Digital anarchy will eventually reign supreme, and we'll be better off for it. And until it does, if you get caught, you get to be extorted and/or judged against. I'm fine with that. It's just pretty silly to cry foul when it happens.

Author:	Talya [ Fri Oct 08, 2010 8:36 am ]
Post subject:
You can be extorted and/or judged against. My courts won't force ISPs to give up the names (or even keep records) of who had what IP at any given time without some pretty damning proof of crime being committed. Anyway, it's not the hardcore pirates they're catching. It's people who don't even know how to use a computer, and don't realize they've been sharing music. (Or worse yet, those who don't know how to secure a wireless router.)

Author:	Jeryn [ Fri Oct 08, 2010 8:40 am ]
Post subject:
Kinda anecdotally, as far as that goes, I recently upgraded from DSL to 18Mb fiber when it became available (AT&T UVerse). When they installed the residential gateway, its default config was to have WPA2-PSK enabled, and a business card to hand the end user with a password on it. Kinda nice considering all the open networks named Linksys that I encounter anywhere I go.

Author:	Mookhow [ Fri Oct 08, 2010 9:02 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Making a business out of copy right laws
I thought I read a while back that courts were starting to fight back against the shotgun John Doe approach by saying you couldn't sue 300 (or whatever) John Does in the same case. The RIAA was supposed to file each John Doe lawsuit independently. Then again, I think this was just one judge who said that, and I think the RIAA might've just gone to a different jurisdiction.

Author:	Stathol [ Fri Oct 08, 2010 9:27 am ]
Post subject:	Re:
Kaffis Mark V wrote: The thing I love is that the extortion can be avoided quite simply, too. People just don't want "so don't pirate" to be the answer. I get this, but it's problematic. Suppose that the police were just beating the ever-loving **** out of people the caught shop-lifting. I can certainly understand not having much sympathy for anyone so affected, but "who cares? It only happens to thieves!" wouldn't be the right answer to that situation. Wrongdoings of the defendants doesn't justify wrongdoing by the prosecution. I think Jerun pretty much has the right of it. Both "sides" are screwed up and using really shitty justification for their actions. Turning to pragmatics, then, I'm inclined to believe that the IP police are presently doing more harm to society than the copyright offenders. As to the law firms...I'm going to regard this much like I do personal injury lawyers. In principle, there's nothing wrong with them. In practice, though, they're frequently nothing more than legalized extortioneers who damage society rather than defending rights.

Author:	Müs [ Fri Oct 08, 2010 9:39 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Re:
Stathol wrote: As to the law firms...I'm going to regard this much like I do personal injury lawyers. In principle, there's nothing wrong with them. In practice, though, they're frequently nothing more than legalized extortioneers who damage society rather than defending rights. Dirtbags trying to extort money.

Author:	Müs [ Fri Oct 08, 2010 9:43 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Re:
Kaffis Mark V wrote: Talya wrote: So that makes the extortion right? Copyright owners will never win. Copyright is an artificial and bizarre concept that cannot withstand technology. It doesn't belong to the people who are taking it, because it doesn't belong to anybody. It's thought, it's data, it's air. It's common domain. The law will never recognize that, which is fine because current government models which support this ridiculous concept are collapsing under their own weight anyway. Digital anarchy will eventually reign supreme, and we'll be better off for it. And until it does, if you get caught, you get to be extorted and/or judged against. I'm fine with that. It's just pretty silly to cry foul when it happens. So you think its right to extort thousands of dollars out of someone for downloading a hundred bucks (at retail) worth of media?

Author:	Kaffis Mark V [ Fri Oct 08, 2010 9:58 am ]
Post subject:
I didn't say it's right. I said it's not wrong to help IP owners protect what's theirs. I think it could be done better, but this is a better avenue to do so than ignoring that piracy exists.

Author:	Corolinth [ Fri Oct 08, 2010 10:47 am ]
Post subject:
There is a problem with copyright law. One can not actually own an idea, and with the current state of our copyright law, piracy actually does need to exist for the good of society. It took us over two hundred years to settle who invented calculus. Think of where our society might be if only Newton were allowed to work on it. Or, ** it, go with both of them. What if only Newton and Leibniz had been allowed to do work in that field of math, since they're both credited with having developed it independently of one another. The reason our technology is where it is today, the reason we have things like airplanes and the internet, is because other brilliant minds who came later were allowed to take someone else's idea and improve on it, and they were allowed to do it without paying some sort of premium. Copyright law doesn't allow that. It's far too stringent. It does not protect the progenitors of ideas, it enforces monopolies. It goes well beyond giving credit where credit is due. For **'s sake, Walt Disney is dead. There is no reason Mickey Mouse should not have entered the public domain.

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Author:	Hopwin [ Fri Oct 08, 2010 10:44 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Re:
Stathol wrote: Kaffis Mark V wrote: The thing I love is that the extortion can be avoided quite simply, too. People just don't want "so don't pirate" to be the answer. I get this, but it's problematic. Suppose that the police were just beating the ever-loving **** out of people the caught shop-lifting. I can certainly understand not having much sympathy for anyone so affected, but "who cares? It only happens to thieves!" wouldn't be the right answer to that situation. Wrongdoings of the defendants doesn't justify wrongdoing by the prosecution. I think Jerun pretty much has the right of it. Both "sides" are screwed up and using really shitty justification for their actions. Turning to pragmatics, then, I'm inclined to believe that the IP police are presently doing more harm to society than the copyright offenders. As to the law firms...I'm going to regard this much like I do personal injury lawyers. In principle, there's nothing wrong with them. In practice, though, they're frequently nothing more than legalized extortioneers who damage society rather than defending rights. No this is the same as saying that mall security is writing $20 tickets to shoplifters rather than arresting them. The published penalty for theft of intellectual property and redistribution is $50,000 these people are instead paying much less than if they were taken to court and found guilty. If you didn't steal and distribute the materials in question then you can always go to court and force them to prove your guilt.