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US on Trial the UN https://gladerebooted.net/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=4582 |
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Author: | Uncle Fester [ Fri Nov 05, 2010 1:24 am ] |
Post subject: | US on Trial the UN |
Yes, the Us going before the UN human Right's council. Such moral luminaries such as China, Cuba, Libya, and Saudi Arabia. Bush was right to ignore this even more loathsome pit of the UN then usual. http://www.foxnews.com/world/2010/11/04 ... latestnews Spoiler: |
Author: | darksiege [ Fri Nov 05, 2010 1:43 am ] |
Post subject: | |
*hand clamps firmly over my mouth* mmm mmph mmm mm. MMMM MMM mmm mmm mmmmmmm. M mmmm mmmm mmmmmm mmmmmm mm mm mmmm! *hand comes off of the mouth* And I hope it gets right in their eyes! truthfully: I have no possible way to voice my opinion about this without going off of the deep end in BAD karmic buildup and loathsome levels of ultra-violence. Spoiler: |
Author: | Uncle Fester [ Fri Nov 05, 2010 1:47 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: US on trail at the UN |
Damn it, should be Trial, stupid late night posting. Mock away. |
Author: | Micheal [ Fri Nov 05, 2010 2:37 am ] |
Post subject: | |
UF - Your mother is a wood pigeon and your father smells of fermented pyracantha berries. Transposing letters is so gauche. Have you tried editing your post title? The UN, on the other hand, has become irrelevant to the world except as a gesture to pretend the world community has some power working together. Send the United Nations back to The Hague, where the League of Nations lived. See if the world pays any attention to it after it leaves New York. |
Author: | Taskiss [ Fri Nov 05, 2010 5:22 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: US on trail at the UN |
Uncle Fester wrote: Damn it, should be Trial, stupid late night posting. Mock away. Mock mock mock |
Author: | Talya [ Fri Nov 05, 2010 7:20 am ] |
Post subject: | |
Micheal, if it were in the Hague, the UN would be far less useful to USA, as it might stop being the American puppet organization that it is. The UN exists only because the USA wants it to, and for no other reason. Let them have their meaningless trial (the only irony is that those organizations are worse. The travesties still happening at Gitmo that so undermines the values of a "free country" are worth putting "on trial," but there's no suitable venue to have one in.) |
Author: | Hannibal [ Fri Nov 05, 2010 7:52 am ] |
Post subject: | |
What the flying frak they gonna do? Order us to use our own military to sanction ourselves? Deploy french peacekeepers to Camden NJ? Have british soldiers try to make it from the temple university train to downtown philly without dying? They'd have never tried this w GW in the White House. I firmly believe Bush would have kicked them out and padlocked the door. |
Author: | Diamondeye [ Fri Nov 05, 2010 7:58 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: US on Trial the UN |
The idea that the UN is a puppet organization of the US is hilarious. It's really just a stage for any nation to use "legal" proceedings to create political hay against anyone else it wants to. The US is no different in terms of being on either the receiving or the giving end of this than anyone else except in terms of its prominence, which is due to its size. The Hague would just make it worse. There's already too many of these "world courts" and what-have-you in Europe, especially in Belgium and the Netherlands that are really just a way for Europe to pretend its in a position to administer justice to the rest of the world. |
Author: | Aizle [ Fri Nov 05, 2010 9:16 am ] |
Post subject: | |
Just like the US likes to pretent it's in a position to administer justice in the world? Except that we tend to not use courts but the military. |
Author: | Arathain Kelvar [ Fri Nov 05, 2010 9:26 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: |
Talya wrote: (the only irony is ) That's not the only irony. Quote: Those allegations, and many more, will come from Americans themselves — especially from a stridently critical network of U.S. organizations How bad are human rights in the US if we allow US organizations to exist whose sole purpose is to criticize the US government? |
Author: | Kaffis Mark V [ Fri Nov 05, 2010 9:29 am ] |
Post subject: | |
We're effective, but stupid oppressors, Arathain. |
Author: | Khross [ Fri Nov 05, 2010 9:32 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: |
Kaffis Mark V wrote: We're effective, but stupid oppressors, Arathain. That's almost a money quote.
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Author: | Talya [ Fri Nov 05, 2010 9:42 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: Re: |
Khross wrote: Kaffis Mark V wrote: We're effective, but stupid oppressors, Arathain. That's almost a money quote.Doesn't matter, the currency is being devalued. We need a gold quote. |
Author: | Diamondeye [ Fri Nov 05, 2010 2:08 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: |
Aizle wrote: Just like the US likes to pretent it's in a position to administer justice in the world? Except that we tend to not use courts but the military. We don't do that. We use our military power to defend and promote our own interests. Sometimes we In any case, it's silly to compare the US and the UN in that way. The US is just one nation, essentially doing what all nations have always done. The UN is a collection of nations trying to pretend to authority over international dealings. The only reason the US appears different is greater capabilities. If New Zealand had our military power, you'd find their attitude changed rather rapidly. They don't, and won't, though, so its to their advantage to use sweet words about how other nations should conduct business to give themselves "soft" power. We do exactly the same thing; we pretend it's about justice and democracy but really, it's only about justice and democracy insofar as its to our net benefit to promote them. Take Canada, for example. It's to Canada's benefit to keep close relations with the US because its a lot cheaper for them to defend that huge space if we foot much of the bill, which is in turn to our benefit becuase it's an immense buffer. Hence things like NORAD appeared. It's also obviously to the benfit to both countries to maintain good trade relationships. In Canada's case, they have a much smaller population, however, so they really can't be an equal partner, especially in the military aspects of it. This isn't because Canada is inferior; it just can't do as much with 30 million people as we can with 10x that. Therefore, it's to Canada's benfit to use political pressure as a means to get the US to do what it wants. It applies that pressure in any umber of ways, but one of those ways is to cricticize American unilateral actions. The reason is, when action is decided by a committee of nations, small nations get proportionally more decisions power and larger ones proportionally less, especially when voting evens the playing field. It's essentially an arrangement of "you guys foot the bill sicne you're so big,, but we all get an equal vote". The country providing the most still has more real power leading up to the vote, but not as much as it otherwise would. This is one of the goals of the UN - giving smaller countries control over bigger ones. That was always limited by vetos, but it's still a basic goal of a system where each nation gets a vote. Since the end of the Cold War, it's basically become about controlling the US (and to a lesser extent the UK, France, and a few others) Don't buy the hype - other countries do not ***** because of what we do; they ***** because they didn't to tell us to do it. |
Author: | Rodahn [ Fri Nov 05, 2010 5:16 pm ] |
Post subject: | |
Well, to play devil's advocate for the moment, there does tend to be a rather strong anti-Muslim/Islamic undercurrent running through the US at the moment. In fact, there is a pretty strong "If you are not a red-blooded American, you are my enemy" sentiment at the moment. We are not the only ones guilty of this, of course, but for a nation that is often looked upon to set the best example in every field, we sure are falling short. |
Author: | Arathain Kelvar [ Fri Nov 05, 2010 5:21 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: |
Rodahn wrote: Well, to play devil's advocate for the moment, there does tend to be a rather strong anti-Muslim/Islamic undercurrent running through the US at the moment. In fact, there is a pretty strong "If you are not a red-blooded American, you are my enemy" sentiment at the moment. We are not the only ones guilty of this, of course, but for a nation that is often looked upon to set the best example in every field, we sure are falling short. Even so, it's not particularly a bad place to be if you are muslim (relatively speaking). Individuals in the population may cause you problems, but that's mostly the extent of it (unless you have a relative who's a terrorist, or suspected terrorist, then you're probably ****). |
Author: | darksiege [ Fri Nov 05, 2010 5:23 pm ] |
Post subject: | |
Rodahn, as opposed to the pro American sentiment that the Muslim countries have had? I do not remember seeing pictures of America as a whole celebrating bombings in Muslim countries like they did when the WTC was hit on 9/11. |
Author: | Rodahn [ Fri Nov 05, 2010 5:27 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: |
darksiege wrote: Rodahn, as opposed to the pro American sentiment that the Muslim countries have had? *Ahem* Rodahn wrote: We are not the only ones guilty of this, of course, but for a nation that is often looked upon to set the best example in every field, we sure are falling short.
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Author: | Vindicarre [ Fri Nov 05, 2010 5:43 pm ] |
Post subject: | |
I'm sure the Gov't could create some rather strict controls on the speech/actions of the individual citizens who are promoting the anti-whatever sentiment, but then it wouldn't really be the United States, would it? As for setting the best example, yes other people look to us and we expect it of ourselves; we try, but we're human too. That said, there can be no doubt that we do a pretty damn good job. |
Author: | Diamondeye [ Fri Nov 05, 2010 7:05 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: |
Rodahn wrote: Well, to play devil's advocate for the moment, there does tend to be a rather strong anti-Muslim/Islamic undercurrent running through the US at the moment. So? Right now, Americans perceive nations that are strongly muslim as most likely to be the ones doing something contrary to our interests. More importantly, public perception and nationl policy aren't motivated by the same things. Most people in charge of actually running a nation's affairs on the international scene realize that the public's reasons for supporting something aren't necessarily the same as the actual reasons its done. Quote: In fact, there is a pretty strong "If you are not a red-blooded American, you are my enemy" sentiment at the moment. There is? Where is this sentiment, and what's a "red-blooded American"? Quote: We are not the only ones guilty of this, of course, but for a nation that is often looked upon to set the best example in every field, we sure are falling short. We're not looked upon to set an example at all. People here like to believe that, but we aren't. Anyone from another nation claiming that we are is either A) using it for his own purposes or B) hasn't thought through why anyone needs the US to set an example for them. The everyday people in other nations may look to us as an example, and they may find that we're failing in that regard. That only illustrates that political posturing works on most everyday people. People tend to anthropomorhize nations a great deal more than is merited. Nations are not people. They are not created equal, they do not have friends, and the best you can hope for is that the self-interest they act in will be "enlightened". I support the U.S. doing what's in its own interests because it's my country. I expect that other people from other countries will do the same for their country. When people apply double standards wherein the U.S. is supposed to be "better" than everyone else, and ***** about our behavior, I take them on. Not because I think the US is magically special, but because most of the time its someone complaining about the fact that the US can do things that they can't, and pretending that their nation acts differently because it's better. Being proud of your country is fine, but don't pretend like it's populated with the magically enlightened people that everyone seems the expect the US to have. Or to put it more succinctly, I'm all about the realpolitik. |
Author: | Rodahn [ Fri Nov 05, 2010 7:43 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: Re: |
Diamondeye wrote: Rodahn wrote: Well, to play devil's advocate for the moment, there does tend to be a rather strong anti-Muslim/Islamic undercurrent running through the US at the moment. So? Right now, Americans perceive nations that are strongly muslim as most likely to be the ones doing something contrary to our interests. More importantly, public perception and nationl policy aren't motivated by the same things. Most people in charge of actually running a nation's affairs on the international scene realize that the public's reasons for supporting something aren't necessarily the same as the actual reasons its done. True, and I'm not denying this. As I said, I'm playing devil's advocate and pointing out why those with Muslim interests can be justified in their accusations. It's just the other side of the mirror. Quote: Quote: In fact, there is a pretty strong "If you are not a red-blooded American, you are my enemy" sentiment at the moment. There is? Where is this sentiment, and what's a "red-blooded American"? Look at those who were and still are in an uproar about Obama's origin of birth. And, as I mentioned above, look at the general anti-Muslim sentiment in the US. Look at the backlash south of the border migrant workers get. Even those who are here legally, or were born here. Racist sentiment is all around us. And I used "red blooded American" as an expression for a typical, Caucasian male and female citizen of European decent. Quote: Quote: We are not the only ones guilty of this, of course, but for a nation that is often looked upon to set the best example in every field, we sure are falling short. We're not looked upon to set an example at all. People here like to believe that, but we aren't. Anyone from another nation claiming that we are is either A) using it for his own purposes or B) hasn't thought through why anyone needs the US to set an example for them. The everyday people in other nations may look to us as an example, and they may find that we're failing in that regard. That only illustrates that political posturing works on most everyday people. I both agree and disagree. I agree that no singular nation should be looked upon to set examples, but I disagree in that I think much of the world does look to the US to set the example for pretty much everything. I'm not saying that it's right per se, just that, it simply exists. And if our perceived duty to the rest of the world is to set the bar for what's best or what's right, again from the devil's advocate viewpoint, we aren't living up to our full potential. Quote: People tend to anthropomorhize nations a great deal more than is merited. Nations are not people. They are not created equal, they do not have friends, and the best you can hope for is that the self-interest they act in will be "enlightened". Agreed. Quote: I support the U.S. doing what's in its own interests because it's my country. I expect that other people from other countries will do the same for their country. When people apply double standards wherein the U.S. is supposed to be "better" than everyone else, and ***** about our behavior, I take them on. Not because I think the US is magically special, but because most of the time its someone complaining about the fact that the US can do things that they can't, and pretending that their nation acts differently because it's better. Being proud of your country is fine, but don't pretend like it's populated with the magically enlightened people that everyone seems the expect the US to have. Or to put it more succinctly, I'm all about the realpolitik. Again, I agree. This shouldn't be one singular nation's burden to bear. I think a lot of it started from the big influx of immigrants around the late 19th and early 20th centuries. There were literally immigrants arriving in America in tears thinking that they had landed in some Heavenly city called New York. Word spread around the rest of the world, and the precedent was set for America being the superlative. |
Author: | Diamondeye [ Fri Nov 05, 2010 8:21 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: Re: |
Rodahn wrote: True, and I'm not denying this. As I said, I'm playing devil's advocate and pointing out why those with Muslim interests can be justified in their accusations. It's just the other side of the mirror. I don't see how you're establishing that they're justified in their accusations. Sure, they might be, but only because they are holding the U.S. to a double standard. So what if they're justified? Quote: [Look at those who were and still are in an uproar about Obama's origin of birth. And, as I mentioned above, look at the general anti-Muslim sentiment in the US. Look at the backlash south of the border migrant workers get. Even those who are here legally, or were born here. Racist sentiment is all around us. And I used "red blooded American" as an expression for a typical, Caucasian male and female citizen of European decent. I don't see that there's all that many people that are concerned about Obama's birth, and many of those are really more concerned about the stnading issue than his actual birth. As for the workers, that has nothing to do with being a "red blooded American" and everything to do with being an American legally. Racist sentiment is not all around us. Hell, none of the things you mentioned is in any way unique to whites. Quote: I both agree and disagree. I agree that no singular nation should be looked upon to set examples, but I disagree in that I think much of the world does look to the US to set the example for pretty much everything. I'm not saying that it's right per se, just that, it simply exists. And if our perceived duty to the rest of the world is to set the bar for what's best or what's right, again from the devil's advocate viewpoint, we aren't living up to our full potential. A) so what if they do? We should subordinate our own interests to their desire to see us be some nebulous "example" Should we be held to a higher standard the rest of the world does not hold itself to because they've decided we're to be an example? B) Our potential in what way? How do you know we have this potential? People talk about this vague notion of this nation we supposedly should be all the time, but I hae yet to see any concrete way we could do this that isn't wildly unrealistic or doesn't simply sacrifice our interests to placate everyone else. Quote: Again, I agree. This shouldn't be one singular nation's burden to bear. I think a lot of it started from the big influx of immigrants around the late 19th and early 20th centuries. There were literally immigrants arriving in America in tears thinking that they had landed in some Heavenly city called New York. Word spread around the rest of the world, and the precedent was set for America being the superlative. I would point out that all these nations that we're supposed to "set the example for" are also the ones that scream and yell about how they don't want to be Americanized. It shouldn't be one nation's burden to bear, but that means we should stop trying to bear it, and we should tell everyone else we're not going to. |
Author: | Wwen [ Tue Nov 09, 2010 6:03 pm ] |
Post subject: | |
Why would they do this during the Obama admin? |
Author: | Lex Luthor [ Tue Nov 09, 2010 7:40 pm ] |
Post subject: | |
The U.S. is a sovereign nation . It can't go on "trial". Furthermore we spend more than enough on our military to back this up. Quote: The Reid Court (U.S. Supreme Court) held in their Opinion that,
"... No agreement with a foreign nation can confer power on the Congress, or any other branch of government, which is free from the restraints of the Constitution. Article VI, the Supremacy clause of the Constitution declares, "This Constitution and the Laws of the United States which shall be made in pursuance thereof; and all the Treaties made, or which shall be made, under the Authority of the United States, shall be the supreme law of the land...’ "There is nothing in this language which intimates that treaties and laws enacted pursuant to them do not have to comply with the provisions of the Constitution nor is there anything in the debates which accompanied the drafting and ratification which even suggest such a result... "It would be manifestly contrary to the objectives of those who created the Constitution, as well as those who were responsible for the Bill of Rights – let alone alien to our entire constitutional history and tradition – to construe Article VI as permitting the United States to exercise power UNDER an international agreement, without observing constitutional prohibitions. (See: Elliot’s Debates 1836 ed. – pgs 500-519). "In effect, such construction would permit amendment of that document in a manner not sanctioned by Article V. The prohibitions of the Constitution were designed to apply to all branches of the National Government and they cannot be nullified by the Executive or by the Executive and Senate combined." |
Author: | Wwen [ Wed Nov 10, 2010 3:50 am ] |
Post subject: | |
Some sovereignity is more sovereign than others. We are the most sovereign of all countries and can do what we please. |
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