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Europe pissed that Germany doesn't want to pay their debts.
https://gladerebooted.net/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=4745
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Author:  Xequecal [ Mon Nov 22, 2010 4:06 pm ]
Post subject:  Europe pissed that Germany doesn't want to pay their debts.

http://www.cnn.com/2010/BUSINESS/11/16/anger.germany.boils.eu.ft/index.html?iref=obnetwork

Quote:
When George Papandreou, the Greek prime minister, this week aired frustration with Germany for pushing the eurozone to the brink of another debt crisis, he was saying publicly what other senior European officials and diplomats have been saying privately for weeks.

The drive by Angela Merkel, the German chancellor, to rewrite the European Union's treaties to set up a new bail-out system for future Greek-like collapses -- and her insistence that private investors bear more of the cost of such rescues -- was quietly resented when she bulldozed it through last month's summit of EU leaders.

But as bond markets have reacted and plummeted in the weeks since, that resentment has begun to boil over, with increasing accusations that Ms Merkel has put many of her fellow eurozone leaders in untenable positions in order to reinforce her own standing with German taxpayers.

"They're unprintable at times," said Daniel Gros, director of the Brussels-based Centre for European Policy Studies, of the angry remarks he has heard aimed towards Berlin.

German officials insist their campaign to get private bondholders to shoulder more bail-out costs is not just about domestic considerations. The government is more concerned that the current system -- which condemns well-managed states to bailing out badly-managed ones -- is unsustainable.

But even some of those well-managed states have expressed anger at German tactics. Countries such as the Netherlands, Finland and Austria, all normally allies of Germany in economic governance issues, have raised questions about Berlin's behaviour.

Anger first arose after Berlin cut a deal in mid-October with France over the new bail-out system, even as it was working closely on economic reform issues with several of its allies among the northern, fiscally prudent caucus.

Ever since the deal was struck, Germany has slowly lost support for its hardline stance on the new rescue mechanism and has been forced to back away from its original ideas about setting strict rules for private investors' role in a bail-out "ex-ante", or before a rescue even occurs.

"Everybody should be more [of] an owner of this process; it shouldn't just be Germany," said Mikolaj Dowgielewicz, Poland's EU minister.

Senior EU officials have become increasingly alarmed by the internecine sniping. Olli Rehn, the EU's top economic official, on Tuesday called for leaders to "restore the sense of unity" and to end the "somewhat divisive tone in the public debate".

Several European officials said, however, that Germany was unprepared for the market's angry reaction to the bail-out proposal and has since begun to backtrack. Two senior officials briefed on deliberations during the G20 summit in Seoul said a statement put out there by finance ministers of the EU's five largest economies, in which they reassured bondholders that no current owner of debt would be forced to pay for a sovereign bail-out, was in part a concession by Berlin that it had overplayed its hand.

Mr Gros noted the current dust-up is the second time Ms Merkel has pushed the eurozone into turmoil by digging in her heels on what, to her, is a principled stand against bailing out profligate member states. Earlier this year, Ms Merkel refused for months to offer concrete help for Greece until forced into action in May by an angry bond market. "That is the fundamental flaw in Merkel's approach," Mr Gros said. "What she somehow doesn't get is that markets are not like political systems. They anticipate things. And they anticipate vaguely, not rationally."

As the turmoil has gathered steam, German officials have insisted they are sympathetic with Ireland's plight, particularly since Dublin was the first "peripheral" EU economy to slash budgets to try to get its fiscal house in order. Berlin has repeatedly insisted that they are not putting pressure on Ireland to accept EU aid.

At the same time, Berlin has grown frustrated with Dublin's handling of the crisis, believing Irish officials have failed to inform other eurozone members how they want to move forward. But Berlin appears prepared to tough it out, despite the criticisms from the likes of Mr Papandreou and Jean-Claude Trichet, the European Central Bank president who loudly opposed the German move to reopen the treaties for fear that the markets would react exactly as they have.

German officials acknowledge that uncertainty over the future bail-out system is not ideal, but they insist they need more time to work out its details.


TL;DR: Europe is really mad that Germany is saying that the people who bought Irish/Greek government bonds should be the ones to bail them out, or eat the loss if they go bankrupt, rather than German (being the country with the massive trade surplus) taxpayers being the ones to foot the bill.

Author:  Uncle Fester [ Mon Nov 22, 2010 4:09 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Europe pissed that Germany doesn't want to pay their deb

I would absolutely love to see the global reaction to Germany going "**** this Euro ****, we are bringing back our own currency"

Author:  Müs [ Mon Nov 22, 2010 4:11 pm ]
Post subject: 

Deutschmark, deutschmark uber alles ;)

Author:  Khross [ Mon Nov 22, 2010 4:24 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Europe pissed that Germany doesn't want to pay their deb

Hmmmms ...

I think we need to put another "correct" annotation next to one of my predictions.

Author:  Xequecal [ Mon Nov 22, 2010 4:27 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Europe pissed that Germany doesn't want to pay their deb

Uncle Fester wrote:
I would absolutely love to see the global reaction to Germany going "**** this Euro ****, we are bringing back our own currency"


Germany has the same problem with the EU that China has with the US.....if they ditch the Euro, they lose their main export market.

Author:  shuyung [ Mon Nov 22, 2010 5:47 pm ]
Post subject: 

That has nothing to do with it. The rest of Europe is still worried that the next words out of Germany are going to be something along the lines of "You know, we should own Poland".

Author:  Talya [ Mon Nov 22, 2010 11:37 pm ]
Post subject: 

Only this time, they could buy Poland.

Author:  Lex Luthor [ Mon Nov 22, 2010 11:48 pm ]
Post subject: 

Europe is almost one country now anyways. Transferring Poland to Germany is kind of like transferring Maine to Massachusetts. It's still a big deal, but not a huge one.

Author:  Hopwin [ Tue Nov 23, 2010 7:44 am ]
Post subject:  Re:

Talya wrote:
Only this time, they could buy Poland.

Oh God, imagine how terrible Polish-German food would be...

Author:  Diamondeye [ Tue Nov 23, 2010 10:10 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Re:

Hopwin wrote:
Talya wrote:
Only this time, they could buy Poland.

Oh God, imagine how terrible Polish-German food would be...


Th food would be pretty good. The gas, on the other hand...

:shock:

Author:  Elmarnieh [ Tue Nov 23, 2010 12:51 pm ]
Post subject: 

Its always a good idea to exploit Germany economically.

Author:  Vindicarre [ Tue Nov 23, 2010 12:52 pm ]
Post subject: 

It's worked out so well in the past though.

Author:  Corolinth [ Tue Nov 23, 2010 1:14 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Re:

Hopwin wrote:
Oh God, imagine how terrible Polish-German food would be...
Polish sausage would get a lot better.

Author:  Noggel [ Tue Nov 23, 2010 5:18 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Europe pissed that Germany doesn't want to pay their deb

And with that post, I realize I cannot read anything by Corolinth without it being colored raunchy.

Boy that is one image my brain did not need!

Author:  Kaffis Mark V [ Tue Nov 23, 2010 5:25 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Europe pissed that Germany doesn't want to pay their deb

Noggel wrote:
And with that post, I realize I cannot read anything by Corolinth without it being colored raunchy.

Boy that is one image my brain did not need!

I'm guessing Coro would say "Mission accomplished."

Author:  Müs [ Tue Nov 23, 2010 6:01 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Europe pissed that Germany doesn't want to pay their deb

Noggel wrote:
And with that post, I realize I cannot read anything by Corolinth without it being colored raunchy.

Boy that is one image my brain did not need!


Which is funny in this instance, cause Coro's really not into sausage.

No perv, cause he's jewish.

Author:  Corolinth [ Tue Nov 23, 2010 6:08 pm ]
Post subject: 

On that note, several people seem to think my avatar looks like a penis. I don't. So let me get this straight, other people see dicks everywhere they look, and I'm the raunchy one? How does that make sense again?

Author:  Müs [ Tue Nov 23, 2010 6:09 pm ]
Post subject: 

Cause you're a dick :p

Author:  Hannibal [ Tue Nov 23, 2010 10:01 pm ]
Post subject:  Re:

Corolinth wrote:
On that note, several people seem to think my avatar looks like a penis. I don't. So let me get this straight, other people see dicks everywhere they look, and I'm the raunchy one? How does that make sense again?



I'm talking morning, day, night, afternoon, dick, dick, dick, dick, dick, dick, dick, dick, dick.
How many dicks is that?
A lot.

Author:  Diamondeye [ Tue Nov 23, 2010 11:28 pm ]
Post subject:  Re:

Corolinth wrote:
On that note, several people seem to think my avatar looks like a penis. I don't. So let me get this straight, other people see dicks everywhere they look, and I'm the raunchy one? How does that make sense again?


**** you. That's how.

Author:  Wwen [ Wed Nov 24, 2010 5:21 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Europe pissed that Germany doesn't want to pay their deb

Khross wrote:
Hmmmms ...

I think we need to put another "correct" annotation next to one of my predictions.

What was this one? I'm not keeping track. :geek:

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