The Glade 4.0

"Turn the lights down, the party just got wilder."
It is currently Sun Nov 24, 2024 4:20 am

All times are UTC - 6 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 32 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next
Author Message
PostPosted: Mon Dec 27, 2010 3:20 pm 
Offline

Joined: Thu Sep 03, 2009 10:03 am
Posts: 4922
Quote:
America in Decline: Why Germans Think We're Insane
By Democrats Ramshield, AlterNet
Posted on December 26, 2010, Printed on December 27, 2010
http://www.alternet.org/story/149324/

As an American expat living in the European Union, I’ve started to see America from a different perspective.

The European Union has a larger economy and more people than America does. Though it spends less -- right around 9 percent of GNP on medical, whereas we in the U.S. spend close to between 15 to 16 percent of GNP on medical -- the EU pretty much insures 100 percent of its population.

The U.S. has 59 million people medically uninsured; 132 million without dental insurance; 60 million without paid sick leave; 40 million on food stamps. Everybody in the European Union has cradle-to-grave access to universal medical and a dental plan by law. The law also requires paid sick leave; paid annual leave; paid maternity leave. When you realize all of that, it becomes easy to understand why many Europeans think America has gone insane.

Der Spiegel has run an interesting feature called "A Superpower in Decline," which attempts to explain to a German audience such odd phenomena as the rise of the Tea Party, without the hedging or attempts at "balance" found in mainstream U.S. media. On the Tea Parties:

Full of Hatred: "The Tea Party, that group of white, older voters who claim that they want their country back, is angry. Fox News host Glenn Beck, a recovering alcoholic who likens Obama to Adolf Hitler, is angry. Beck doesn't quite know what he wants to be -- maybe a politician, maybe president, maybe a preacher -- and he doesn't know what he wants to do, either, or least he hasn't come up with any specific ideas or plans. But he is full of hatred."

The piece continues with the sobering assessment that America’s actual unemployment rate isn’t really 10 percent, but close to 20 percent when we factor in the number of people who have stopped looking for work.

Some social scientists think that making sure large-scale crime or fascism never takes root in Europe again requires a taxpayer investment in a strong social safety net. Can we learn from Europe? Isn't it better to invest in a social safety net than in a large criminal justice system? (In America over 2 million people are incarcerated.)

Jobless Benefits That Never Run Out

Unlike here, in Germany jobless benefits never run out. Not only that -- as part of their social safety net, all job seekers continue to be medically insured, as are their families.

In the German jobless benefit system, when "jobless benefit 1" runs out, "jobless benefit 2," also known as HartzIV, kicks in. That one never gets cut off. The jobless also have contributions made for their pensions. They receive other types of insurance coverage from the state. As you can imagine, the estimated 2 million unemployed Americans who almost had no benefits this Christmas seems a particular horror show to Europeans, made worse by the fact that the U.S. government does not provide any medical insurance to American unemployment recipients. Europeans routinely recoil at that in disbelief and disgust.

In another piece the Spiegel magazine steps away from statistics and tells the story of Pam Brown, who personifies what is coming to be known as the Nouveau American poor. Pam Brown was a former executive assistant on Wall Street, and her shocking decline has become part of the American story:

American society is breaking apart. Millions of people have lost their jobs and fallen into poverty. Among them, for the first time, are many middle-class families. Meet Pam Brown from New York, whose life changed overnight. The crisis caught her unprepared. "It was horrible," Pam Brown remembers. "Overnight I found myself on the wrong side of the fence. It never occurred to me that something like this could happen to me. I got very depressed." Brown sits in a cheap diner on West 14th Street in Manhattan, stirring her $1.35 coffee. That's all she orders -- it's too late for breakfast and too early for lunch. She also needs to save money. Until early 2009, Brown worked as an executive assistant on Wall Street, earning more than $80,000 a year, living in a six-bedroom house with her three sons. Today, she's long-term unemployed and has to make do with a tiny one-bedroom in the Bronx.

It's important to note that no country in the European Union uses food stamps in order to humiliate its disadvantaged citizens in the grocery checkout line. Even worse is the fact that even the humbling food stamp allotment may not provide enough food for America’s jobless families. So it is on a reoccurring basis that some of these families report eating out of garbage cans to the European media.

For Pam Brown, last winter was the worst. One day she ran out of food completely and had to go through trash cans. She fell into a deep depression ... For many, like Brown, the downfall is a Kafkaesque odyssey, a humiliation hard to comprehend. Help is not in sight: their government and their society have abandoned them.

Pam Brown and her children were disturbingly, indeed incomprehensibly, allowed to fall straight to the bottom. The richest country in the world becomes morally bankrupt when someone like Pam Brown and her children have to pick through trash to eat, abandoned with a callous disregard by the American government. People like Brown have found themselves dispossessed due to the robber baron actions of the Wall Street elite.

Hunger in the Land of the Big Mac

A shocking headline from a Swiss newspaper reads (Berner Zeitung) “Hunger in the Land of the Big Mac.” Though the article is in German, the pictures are worth 1,000 words and need no translation. Given the fact that the Swiss virtually eliminated hunger, how do we as Americans think they will view these pictures, to which the American population has apparently been desensitized.

This appears to be a picture of two mothers collecting food boxes from the charity Feed the Children.

Perhaps the only way for us to remember what we really look like in America is to see ourselves through the eyes of others. While it is true that we can all be proud Americans, surely we don't have to be proud of the broken American social safety net. Surely we can do better than that. Can a European-style social safety net rescue the American working and middle classes from GOP and Tea Party warfare?


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Mon Dec 27, 2010 3:26 pm 
Offline
pbp Hack
User avatar

Joined: Wed Sep 02, 2009 8:45 pm
Posts: 7585
If European entitlement is so great why are they as broke as we are?

_________________
I prefer to think of them as "Fighting evil in another dimension"


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Mon Dec 27, 2010 3:32 pm 
Offline
The Dancing Cat
User avatar

Joined: Wed Nov 04, 2009 2:21 pm
Posts: 9354
Location: Ohio
Rorinthas wrote:
If European entitlement is so great why are they as broke as we are?

Shhhhh!!! Austerity measures are a myth perpetrated by American neo-cons!

Europe: A-OK!

_________________
Quote:
In comic strips the person on the left always speaks first. - George Carlin


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Mon Dec 27, 2010 5:53 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sat Oct 24, 2009 5:44 pm
Posts: 2315
This is actually pretty simple. Germans are lazy **** compared to Americans, but they actually consume at a sane level relative to the work that they do do. In Germany you don't need to indebt yourself for half a million to buy a house if you want to be a man.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Mon Dec 27, 2010 6:58 pm 
Offline
Not a F'n Boy Scout
User avatar

Joined: Tue Sep 15, 2009 12:10 pm
Posts: 5202
Quote:
In Germany you don't need to indebt yourself for half a million to buy a house if you want to be a man.


WTF is this ****? You don't need to do it in the US either. I own a home, and a seperate huge plot of land in anothr state, and I owe less that 20k on them, which will be paid off this year. You say some ridiculous things sometimes.

_________________
Quote:
19 Yet she became more and more promiscuous as she recalled the days of her youth, when she was a prostitute in Egypt. 20 There she lusted after her lovers, whose genitals were like those of donkeys and whose emission was like that of horses.

Ezekiel 23:19-20 


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Mon Dec 27, 2010 7:32 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sat Oct 24, 2009 5:44 pm
Posts: 2315
Well, you can afford a home. People who can't afford homes in the US buy them anyway because you're not a real American if you don't have one. And the people who can afford homes generally buy one that's way the **** out of their league.

I grew up in a fairly wealthy family, and I saw this all the time. People with $60,000 annual incomes would come into our neighborhood and buy $500,000 houses with no down payment.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Dec 27, 2010 8:27 pm 
Offline
Noli me calcare
User avatar

Joined: Thu Sep 03, 2009 10:26 am
Posts: 4747
No, you didn't see it all the time. You saw it for a brief period of time, on a couple of occasions. Furthermore, unless people who live in your "fairly wealthy" family's neighborhood were in the habit of talking about their fairly average incomes and their mortgages to relative strangers, you probably aren't sure you "saw" it at all. I have a feeling we're being fed a bunch of hyperbole and pure speculation.

_________________
"Dress cops up as soldiers, give them military equipment, train them in military tactics, tell them they’re fighting a ‘war,’ and the consequences are predictable." —Radley Balko

Image


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Mon Dec 27, 2010 8:30 pm 
Offline
Oberon's Playground
User avatar

Joined: Thu Sep 03, 2009 9:11 am
Posts: 9449
Location: Your Dreams
Rorinthas wrote:
If European entitlement is so great why are they as broke as we are?


Most of Europe certainly is. Germany (where they're talking about most of these benefits) is not broke at all. If anything bankrupts Germany, it will be funding the continued operation of the rest of the dumbass EU.

_________________
Well Ali Baba had them forty thieves, Scheherezade had a thousand tales
But master you in luck 'cause up your sleeves you got a brand of magic never fails...
...Mister Aladdin, sir, What will your pleasure be?
Let me take your order, Jot it down -You ain't never had a friend like me

█ ♣ █


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Dec 27, 2010 9:02 pm 
Offline
adorabalicious
User avatar

Joined: Thu Sep 03, 2009 10:54 am
Posts: 5094
Its always the wisest move of Europe to financially piss off Germany.

_________________
"...but there exists also in the human heart a depraved taste for equality, which impels the weak to attempt to lower the powerful to their own level and reduces men to prefer equality in slavery to inequality with freedom." - De Tocqueville


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Dec 27, 2010 9:13 pm 
Offline
Lean, Mean, Googling Machine
User avatar

Joined: Thu Sep 03, 2009 9:35 am
Posts: 2903
Location: Maze of twisty little passages, all alike
They may not be "broke" on paper, but German banks are leveraged all to ****. As of Q1 2010, Deutsche Bank was at 60:1, Commerzbank was 124:1, Deutsche Postbank was 77:1 and Landesbank was 75:1. I'm not sure exactly where things sit now, but it's not pretty. If you so much as sneeze at Germany's banking system, the whole thing is going to collapse.

_________________
Sail forth! steer for the deep waters only!
Reckless, O soul, exploring, I with thee, and thou with me;
For we are bound where mariner has not yet dared to go,
And we will risk the ship, ourselves and all.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Dec 27, 2010 9:21 pm 
Offline
adorabalicious
User avatar

Joined: Thu Sep 03, 2009 10:54 am
Posts: 5094
124:1 is unrecoverable.

_________________
"...but there exists also in the human heart a depraved taste for equality, which impels the weak to attempt to lower the powerful to their own level and reduces men to prefer equality in slavery to inequality with freedom." - De Tocqueville


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Dec 27, 2010 9:30 pm 
Offline
Lean, Mean, Googling Machine
User avatar

Joined: Thu Sep 03, 2009 9:35 am
Posts: 2903
Location: Maze of twisty little passages, all alike
Yes. I should clarify that "they" in the first sentence of my last post was supposed to refer to Germany on the whole, not the banks. The banks are broke on paper. But then, all modern "banks" are. The German banks are just a lot more broke than the rest.

_________________
Sail forth! steer for the deep waters only!
Reckless, O soul, exploring, I with thee, and thou with me;
For we are bound where mariner has not yet dared to go,
And we will risk the ship, ourselves and all.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Dec 27, 2010 9:51 pm 
Offline

Joined: Thu Sep 03, 2009 10:03 am
Posts: 4922
If being "broke" was so bad, they clearly wouldn't do it.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Dec 27, 2010 10:01 pm 
Offline
Lean, Mean, Googling Machine
User avatar

Joined: Thu Sep 03, 2009 9:35 am
Posts: 2903
Location: Maze of twisty little passages, all alike
Central banking, Lex Luthor. Lex Luthor, Central Banking. While we're making introductions, you might be interested in meeting her sister, Moral Hazard.

_________________
Sail forth! steer for the deep waters only!
Reckless, O soul, exploring, I with thee, and thou with me;
For we are bound where mariner has not yet dared to go,
And we will risk the ship, ourselves and all.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Dec 27, 2010 10:15 pm 
Offline
Bull Moose
User avatar

Joined: Wed Sep 02, 2009 7:36 pm
Posts: 7507
Location: Last Western Stop of the Pony Express
We are insane.

So are they.

There is no possible way any of this works beyond theory.

Still you have to do something until the end of the world, and we're plugging away. Maybe its their turn to step up and save the world from itself.

_________________
The U. S. Constitution doesn't guarantee happiness, only the pursuit of it. You have to catch up with it yourself. B. Franklin

"A mind needs books like a sword needs a whetstone." -- Tyrion Lannister, A Game of Thrones


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Tue Dec 28, 2010 2:09 am 
Offline
Not a F'n Boy Scout
User avatar

Joined: Tue Sep 15, 2009 12:10 pm
Posts: 5202
Stathol wrote:
...While we're making introductions, you might be interested in meeting her sister, Moral Hazard.


OH EM GEE, shes so **** hot. I know that if I do her, and do her good, the long term consequences will be terrible, what with her overbearing big brother and all, but I just can't help myself. The temptation is overwhelming now... And after all, I'm just a man, subject to the nearly irresistible pressures of human motivation.

_________________
Quote:
19 Yet she became more and more promiscuous as she recalled the days of her youth, when she was a prostitute in Egypt. 20 There she lusted after her lovers, whose genitals were like those of donkeys and whose emission was like that of horses.

Ezekiel 23:19-20 


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Tue Dec 28, 2010 2:14 am 
Offline
Grrr... Eat your oatmeal!!
User avatar

Joined: Wed Sep 02, 2009 11:07 pm
Posts: 5073
Rynar wrote:
OH EM GEE, shes so **** hot. I know that if I do her, and do her good, the long term consequences will be terrible, what with her overbearing big brother and all, but I just can't help myself. The temptation is overwhelming now... And after all, I'm just a man, subject to the nearly irresistible pressures of human motivation.


From what I understand... she likes it in the pooper too.

_________________
Darksiege
Traveller, Calé, Whisperer
Lead me not into temptation; for I know a shortcut


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Dec 28, 2010 3:23 am 
Offline
Illudium PU-36 Explosive Space Modulator
User avatar

Joined: Fri Sep 04, 2009 5:46 pm
Posts: 900
Location: In the rain shadow
Germany has great coverage at a low price, sure. But their system ain't perfect (but no system is). Costs are controlled via negotiations by the sickness funds (non-profit insurers) and providers. The main losers are doctors, who categorically report they feel they aren't paid enough. Say what you will about American health care, but when was the last time American doctors went on strike? It happens in Germany though.

Pretty much every universal health care system regulates compensation and charges to a point that makes Americans uncomfortable. But then again, the system we have now where we expect exhorbitant charges to the uninsured to cover the cut rate compensation rates negotiated by insurers ain't exactly helping either

_________________
Women are from Hoboken, men are from Trenton. ~ Jimmy Kimmel


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Dec 28, 2010 7:51 am 
Offline
The Dancing Cat
User avatar

Joined: Wed Nov 04, 2009 2:21 pm
Posts: 9354
Location: Ohio
Funny that no one is disputing that America is in Decline.

_________________
Quote:
In comic strips the person on the left always speaks first. - George Carlin


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Dec 28, 2010 8:01 am 
Offline

Joined: Thu Sep 03, 2009 10:03 am
Posts: 4922
I don't think the country is in decline, if I can use my life as an example.

I can now order food from my computer - improvement.
I can download lots of things at once at high speeds - improvement.
Music, software, movies, and tv shows are much easier to pirate - improvement.
GPS systems are cheap and portable - improvement.
Google results are much more relevant, making everything easier for me - improvement.
4G Internet on phones - improvement.
Online social networking - improvement.
LCD monitors, high-def tvs, etc. - improvement.
On Demand for television - improvement.
I can use my phone as a camera with decent resolution - improvement.
Never have to buy DVDs/CDs/rent stuff again (mostly downloadable now) - improvement.

Things that got worse? Um... nothing. If the country is "in decline", it is not noticeable whatsoever from my perspective.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re:
PostPosted: Tue Dec 28, 2010 8:39 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Sep 02, 2009 7:59 pm
Posts: 9412
Hopwin wrote:
Funny that no one is disputing that America is in Decline.

We haven't been exporting anything tangible for, like, decades. There's only so long you can sell the world on "buy our information and ideas!" before they realize that they've got their own already.

_________________
"Aaaah! Emotions are weird!" - Amdee
"... Mirrorshades prevent the forces of normalcy from realizing that one is crazed and possibly dangerous. They are the symbol of the sun-staring visionary, the biker, the rocker, the policeman, and similar outlaws." - Bruce Sterling, preface to Mirrorshades


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Re:
PostPosted: Tue Dec 28, 2010 8:45 am 
Offline

Joined: Thu Sep 03, 2009 10:03 am
Posts: 4922
Kaffis Mark V wrote:
Hopwin wrote:
Funny that no one is disputing that America is in Decline.

We haven't been exporting anything tangible for, like, decades. There's only so long you can sell the world on "buy our information and ideas!" before they realize that they've got their own already.


This doesn't mean America is in decline. By the same sort of measure, the U.K. must have been in decline over the last 2 centuries.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Dec 28, 2010 1:21 pm 
Offline
Manchurian Mod
User avatar

Joined: Fri Sep 04, 2009 9:40 am
Posts: 5866
Consider where the U.K. was in the mid 1700s vs where they were in the mid 1900s.

_________________
Buckle your pants or they might fall down.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Dec 28, 2010 1:33 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Sep 08, 2009 9:36 am
Posts: 4320
America is in decline mainly from a world power standpoint. We're still at the top, but it's not as absolute of a position as it once was. And the rest of the world is getting tired of our bullshit and beginning to call us on it.

It remains to be seen if we can salvage our situation or not.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Dec 28, 2010 3:28 pm 
Offline
Near Ground
User avatar

Joined: Wed Sep 02, 2009 10:38 pm
Posts: 6782
Location: Chattanooga, TN
To be honest, I don't care what Germans think.

My only experience with the people is through my work, where we rely on a couple of German companies to assemble and deliver the hardware and software solutions for our affiliates. Based on my experiences, I have begun to admit that, perhaps, there is something to be said for Holocaust deniers. Because to be honest, given my experience with these people, I find it completely and utterly unbelievable that they could possibly ever have been organized and cognizant enough to subjugate entire peoples and countries.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 32 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next

All times are UTC - 6 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 325 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group