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U.S. Backs Drug Firms In Lawsuit Over Prices https://gladerebooted.net/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=5207 |
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Author: | Lydiaa [ Mon Jan 10, 2011 8:08 pm ] |
Post subject: | U.S. Backs Drug Firms In Lawsuit Over Prices |
The short version is the administration has told the Supreme Court that the hospitals and clinics cannot sue drug companies to enforce their right to keep discounts on drugs or to obtain reimbursement from companies that overcharge. I'm weary about mandatory federal tenders, however still not 100% on what exactly was obamacare... so I thought I'd toss this to you guys for comment. Spoiler: |
Author: | Corolinth [ Mon Jan 10, 2011 8:26 pm ] |
Post subject: | |
The United States government has been a corrupt entity for decades. Obamacare was a smoke and mirrors trick to convince the general public we were getting "national health care" so that we would be pleased with our new not-Bush government. |
Author: | Stathol [ Mon Jan 10, 2011 8:26 pm ] |
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Uh...since when does the SCOTUS take orders from the president? |
Author: | Corolinth [ Mon Jan 10, 2011 8:29 pm ] |
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We have Congresscritters who are unaware that they're bound to follow the restrictions given in the Constitution. I found it perfectly easy to believe that our president thinks he's in charge of the Supreme Court. |
Author: | Elmarnieh [ Mon Jan 10, 2011 8:30 pm ] |
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He did give them a lecture in front of the nation before. |
Author: | Xequecal [ Mon Jan 10, 2011 8:46 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: U.S. Backs Drug Firms In Lawsuit Over Prices |
This is atrocious. Seriously, what's going to happen when a bunch of people with AIDS or cancer and no money come in and now the hospital is legally obligated to buy, say, the latest antiretrovirals at full price ($250,000 per year minimum) for these people without ever seeing a dime of recompense? |
Author: | Arathain Kelvar [ Mon Jan 10, 2011 9:44 pm ] |
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Same thing that would happen to the drug companies if they were forced to foot the bill? |
Author: | Xequecal [ Mon Jan 10, 2011 9:49 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: |
Arathain Kelvar wrote: Same thing that would happen to the drug companies if they were forced to foot the bill? Not really. They would just be out the production costs, an absolutely miniscule amount compared to the R&D costs. |
Author: | Stathol [ Mon Jan 10, 2011 10:43 pm ] |
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I'm not sure how you think R&D gets paid for... |
Author: | Müs [ Tue Jan 11, 2011 12:42 am ] |
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Its more than just hugely expensive cancer/aids treatments though. http://www.pharmacist.com/AM/Template.c ... ntID=12192 Look at albuterol inhalers. Since 2009 there has been no generic albuterol inhaler available at all. Why? Not because the medication changed. Because the *propellant* changed. The federal government mandated that CFC containing inhalers would have to be replaced with new HFA propellant inhalers. The result? Same medication, same delivery system, new patents. The aeverage retail price of a generic albuterol inhaler was about 15-20 bucks. It was a generic medication covered by almost all prescription plans as a generic formulary option. So if you had scrip coverage, you'd pay like 10 bucks. After 2009, it became a name brand, non generic drug. Elevating the retail price to 30-45 bucks, and raising the insured rates to "name brand" status. For me, that went from 10 to 25 bucks. Because the government was crying about CFC propellants... A widely used medication for millions of people doubled in price overnight. The patents don't run out till 2012 at the earliest. **** the government. |
Author: | Hannibal [ Tue Jan 11, 2011 8:02 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: |
Stathol wrote: I'm not sure how you think R&D gets paid for... From selling viagra, cialis, etc. |
Author: | Arathain Kelvar [ Tue Jan 11, 2011 8:40 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: |
Müs wrote: Its more than just hugely expensive cancer/aids treatments though. http://www.pharmacist.com/AM/Template.c ... ntID=12192 Look at albuterol inhalers. Since 2009 there has been no generic albuterol inhaler available at all. Why? Not because the medication changed. Because the *propellant* changed. The federal government mandated that CFC containing inhalers would have to be replaced with new HFA propellant inhalers. The result? Same medication, same delivery system, new patents. The aeverage retail price of a generic albuterol inhaler was about 15-20 bucks. It was a generic medication covered by almost all prescription plans as a generic formulary option. So if you had scrip coverage, you'd pay like 10 bucks. After 2009, it became a name brand, non generic drug. Elevating the retail price to 30-45 bucks, and raising the insured rates to "name brand" status. For me, that went from 10 to 25 bucks. Because the government was crying about CFC propellants... A widely used medication for millions of people doubled in price overnight. The patents don't run out till 2012 at the earliest. **** the government. I don't want skin cancer so a few asthmatics can breath cheaper. |
Author: | Stathol [ Tue Jan 11, 2011 9:26 am ] |
Post subject: | |
I can't imagine that the amount of CFCs in asthma inhalers could have any significant environmental impact. |
Author: | Khross [ Tue Jan 11, 2011 9:27 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: U.S. Backs Drug Firms In Lawsuit Over Prices |
I can't say as it matters anyways, since Proventil, Ventolin, and generic Albuterol Sulfate inhalers were using HFA and non-CFC propellants back in 94. All the new legislation did was give the drug makers a new patent and push Generics off the market. |
Author: | Stathol [ Tue Jan 11, 2011 9:30 am ] |
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Hannibal wrote: Stathol wrote: I'm not sure how you think R&D gets paid for... From selling viagra, cialis, etc. Even so, if their other drugs run a negative balance, the logical business decision would be to stop developing them and only work on elective "designer drugs". I don't think that would be a good thing for, say, cancer patients. |
Author: | Squirrel Girl [ Tue Jan 11, 2011 10:43 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: U.S. Backs Drug Firms In Lawsuit Over Prices |
Xequecal wrote: This is atrocious. Seriously, what's going to happen when a bunch of people with AIDS or cancer and no money come in and now the hospital is legally obligated to buy, say, the latest antiretrovirals at full price ($250,000 per year minimum) for these people without ever seeing a dime of recompense? This is what happened to doctors already. |
Author: | Xequecal [ Tue Jan 11, 2011 12:01 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: |
Stathol wrote: I'm not sure how you think R&D gets paid for... R&D gets paid for by the people who do actually have money. When a drug company is developing a drug, they spend on R&D based on what they expect people to be able to pay for the resulting drug. Obviously, at least before this law, people who don't have money aren't factored in to their R&D caluclations. So when they're forced to supply a drug to someone that's indigent they're only out the production costs, because they never expected that person to pay "their share" of the R&D in the first place. |
Author: | Müs [ Tue Jan 11, 2011 5:53 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: U.S. Backs Drug Firms In Lawsuit Over Prices |
Khross wrote: I can't say as it matters anyways, since Proventil, Ventolin, and generic Albuterol Sulfate inhalers were using HFA and non-CFC propellants back in 94. All the new legislation did was give the drug makers a new patent and push Generics off the market. This. It was all about the money. |
Author: | Serienya [ Wed Jan 12, 2011 1:54 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: Re: |
Xequecal wrote: Stathol wrote: I'm not sure how you think R&D gets paid for... R&D gets paid for by the people who do actually have money. When a drug company is developing a drug, they spend on R&D based on what they expect people to be able to pay for the resulting drug. Obviously, at least before this law, people who don't have money aren't factored in to their R&D caluclations. So when they're forced to supply a drug to someone that's indigent they're only out the production costs, because they never expected that person to pay "their share" of the R&D in the first place. Today's R&D is paid for by yesterday's profits. It can take 10-15 years to develop a drug. And most drug candidates fail, some right at the very end, after tens of millions of dollars has been sunk into new technology (new assays often need to get developed to answer specific questions), tox studies, clinical trials, and the like. So now that profits are down, R&D expenditures are also down. Most big pharma companies have cut staff significantly, reorganized, and outsourced development (by partnering with smaller firms and academia, or by licensing their candidates) instead of doing it in house. And now that small molecular candidates are dwindling, they're looking towards biotech for new drugs (more complex, harder to copy, etc). |
Author: | Lydiaa [ Wed Jan 12, 2011 8:14 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: U.S. Backs Drug Firms In Lawsuit Over Prices |
There's a patent cliff coming up at the end of 2011-2012, where lots of companies are scrambling to try anything to hold on to their patents. Generics will make prices cheaper, but remember generic companies are the ones who do not put any effort into developing any new drugs. While I agree medicine prices suck, I don't believe stopping them making money is the way to go, as it might impact on how much money is going into R&D in general. Most multinationals have gone the way of acquisitions for new products rather than develop in house to lower prices, this has resulted in the billion take overs in the last couple of years. |
Author: | Serienya [ Sun Jan 16, 2011 8:19 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: U.S. Backs Drug Firms In Lawsuit Over Prices |
Lydiaa wrote: There's a patent cliff coming up at the end of 2011-2012, where lots of companies are scrambling to try anything to hold on to their patents. Generics will make prices cheaper, but remember generic companies are the ones who do not put any effort into developing any new drugs. While I agree medicine prices suck, I don't believe stopping them making money is the way to go, as it might impact on how much money is going into R&D in general. Most multinationals have gone the way of acquisitions for new products rather than develop in house to lower prices, this has resulted in the billion take overs in the last couple of years. Most of the R&D chemists were let go at my company. It's been pretty bad lately, lots of layoffs. The company says it's to reorganize and save money in advance of the patent cliff. The CEO threw out some statistics, but I don't know the source. Approx. 10 cents of every health care dollar goes to prescription drugs. If you exclude generics from that equation, it's only 2-3 cents. Would be interesting to see where the numbers come from, and if they hold up to scrutiny. But it's in line with what our prior R&D head told us about 5 years ago, before the CEO joined our company. |
Author: | zxczxcf [ Sun Jan 16, 2011 9:42 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: U.S. Backs Drug Firms In Lawsuit Over Prices |
Xequecal wrote: This is atrocious. Seriously, what's going to happen when a bunch of people with AIDS or cancer and no money come in and now the hospital is legally obligated to buy, say, the latest antiretrovirals at full price ($250,000 per year minimum) for these people without ever seeing a dime of recompense? It would be nice if wonderful cures could just fall from the sky and people could get them without paying. However, they unfortunately take billions of dollars of research which has to come from somewhere. |
Author: | darksiege [ Sun Jan 16, 2011 11:03 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: U.S. Backs Drug Firms In Lawsuit Over Prices |
zxczxcf wrote: It would be nice if wonderful cures could just fall from the sky and people could get them without paying. However, they unfortunately take billions of dollars of research which has to come from somewhere. And this point is not in contention. What appears to be in contention is that we have the government saying that the drug firms cannot be expected to accept a lesser price for the goods, AND the hospitals are being told "you have to treat people". This is not about helping the people, it is about bankrupting the hospitals so they are forced to become government institutions. |
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