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PostPosted: Wed Feb 09, 2011 3:13 pm 
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The King
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*Shrug* have it your way Kaffis. I've known all three types. Academics are 100x more trustworthy as a general rule. - TheRiov


Just using this as a catalyst for a nice article I found.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/02/08/scien ... .html?_r=2


Quote:
Social Scientist Sees Bias Within


SAN ANTONIO — Some of the world’s pre-eminent experts on bias discovered an unexpected form of it at their annual meeting.

Discrimination is always high on the agenda at the Society for Personality and Social Psychology’s conference, where psychologists discuss their research on racial prejudice, homophobia, sexism, stereotype threat and unconscious bias against minorities. But the most talked-about speech at this year’s meeting, which ended Jan. 30, involved a new “outgroup.”

It was identified by Jonathan Haidt, a social psychologist at the University of Virginia who studies the intuitive foundations of morality and ideology. He polled his audience at the San Antonio Convention Center, starting by asking how many considered themselves politically liberal. A sea of hands appeared, and Dr. Haidt estimated that liberals made up 80 percent of the 1,000 psychologists in the ballroom. When he asked for centrists and libertarians, he spotted fewer than three dozen hands. And then, when he asked for conservatives, he counted a grand total of three.

“This is a statistically impossible lack of diversity,” Dr. Haidt concluded, noting polls showing that 40 percent of Americans are conservative and 20 percent are liberal. In his speech and in an interview, Dr. Haidt argued that social psychologists are a “tribal-moral community” united by “sacred values” that hinder research and damage their credibility — and blind them to the hostile climate they’ve created for non-liberals.

“Anywhere in the world that social psychologists see women or minorities underrepresented by a factor of two or three, our minds jump to discrimination as the explanation,” said Dr. Haidt, who called himself a longtime liberal turned centrist. “But when we find out that conservatives are underrepresented among us by a factor of more than 100, suddenly everyone finds it quite easy to generate alternate explanations.”

Dr. Haidt (pronounced height) told the audience that he had been corresponding with a couple of non-liberal graduate students in social psychology whose experiences reminded him of closeted gay students in the 1980s. He quoted — anonymously — from their e-mails describing how they hid their feelings when colleagues made political small talk and jokes predicated on the assumption that everyone was a liberal.

“I consider myself very middle-of-the-road politically: a social liberal but fiscal conservative. Nonetheless, I avoid the topic of politics around work,” one student wrote. “Given what I’ve read of the literature, I am certain any research I conducted in political psychology would provide contrary findings and, therefore, go unpublished. Although I think I could make a substantial contribution to the knowledge base, and would be excited to do so, I will not.”

The politics of the professoriate has been studied by the economists Christopher Cardiff and Daniel Klein and the sociologists Neil Gross and Solon Simmons. They’ve independently found that Democrats typically outnumber Republicans at elite universities by at least six to one among the general faculty, and by higher ratios in the humanities and social sciences. In a 2007 study of both elite and non-elite universities, Dr. Gross and Dr. Simmons reported that nearly 80 percent of psychology professors are Democrats, outnumbering Republicans by nearly 12 to 1.

The fields of psychology, sociology and anthropology have long attracted liberals, but they became more exclusive after the 1960s, according to Dr. Haidt. “The fight for civil rights and against racism became the sacred cause unifying the left throughout American society, and within the academy,” he said, arguing that this shared morality both “binds and blinds.”

“If a group circles around sacred values, they will evolve into a tribal-moral community,” he said. “They’ll embrace science whenever it supports their sacred values, but they’ll ditch it or distort it as soon as it threatens a sacred value.” It’s easy for social scientists to observe this process in other communities, like the fundamentalist Christians who embrace “intelligent design” while rejecting Darwinism. But academics can be selective, too, as Daniel Patrick Moynihan found in 1965 when he warned about the rise of unmarried parenthood and welfare dependency among blacks — violating the taboo against criticizing victims of racism.

“Moynihan was shunned by many of his colleagues at Harvard as racist,” Dr. Haidt said. “Open-minded inquiry into the problems of the black family was shut down for decades, precisely the decades in which it was most urgently needed. Only in the last few years have liberal sociologists begun to acknowledge that Moynihan was right all along.”

Similarly, Larry Summers, then president of Harvard, was ostracized in 2005 for wondering publicly whether the preponderance of male professors in some top math and science departments might be due partly to the larger variance in I.Q. scores among men (meaning there are more men at the very high and very low ends). “This was not a permissible hypothesis,” Dr. Haidt said. “It blamed the victims rather than the powerful. The outrage ultimately led to his resignation. We psychologists should have been outraged by the outrage. We should have defended his right to think freely.”

Instead, the taboo against discussing sex differences was reinforced, so universities and the National Science Foundation went on spending tens of millions of dollars on research and programs based on the assumption that female scientists faced discrimination and various forms of unconscious bias. But that assumption has been repeatedly contradicted, most recently in a study published Monday in The Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences by two Cornell psychologists, Stephen J. Ceci and Wendy M. Williams. After reviewing two decades of research, they report that a woman in academic science typically fares as well as, if not better than, a comparable man when it comes to being interviewed, hired, promoted, financed and published.

“Thus,” they conclude, “the ongoing focus on sex discrimination in reviewing, interviewing and hiring represents costly, misplaced effort. Society is engaged in the present in solving problems of the past.” Instead of presuming discrimination in science or expecting the sexes to show equal interest in every discipline, the Cornell researchers say, universities should make it easier for women in any field to combine scholarship with family responsibilities.

Can social scientists open up to outsiders’ ideas? Dr. Haidt was optimistic enough to title his speech “The Bright Future of Post-Partisan Social Psychology,” urging his colleagues to focus on shared science rather than shared moral values. To overcome taboos, he advised them to subscribe to National Review and to read Thomas Sowell’s “A Conflict of Visions.”

For a tribal-moral community, the social psychologists in Dr. Haidt’s audience seemed refreshingly receptive to his argument. Some said he overstated how liberal the field is, but many agreed it should welcome more ideological diversity. A few even endorsed his call for a new affirmative-action goal: a membership that’s 10 percent conservative by 2020. The society’s executive committee didn’t endorse Dr. Haidt’s numerical goal, but it did vote to put a statement on the group’s home page welcoming psychologists with “diverse perspectives.” It also made a change on the “Diversity Initiatives” page — a two-letter correction of what it called a grammatical glitch, although others might see it as more of a Freudian slip.

In the old version, the society announced that special funds to pay for travel to the annual meeting were available to students belonging to “underrepresented groups (i.e., ethnic or racial minorities, first-generation college students, individuals with a physical disability, and/or lesbian, gay, bisexual, or transgendered students).”

As Dr. Haidt noted in his speech, the “i.e.” implied that this was the exclusive, sacred list of “underrepresented groups.” The society took his suggestion to substitute “e.g.” — a change that leaves it open to other groups, too. Maybe, someday, even to conservatives.

This article has been revised to reflect the following correction:

Correction: February 7, 2011

Because of an editing error, an earlier version of this article omitted the name of a scientist who conducted a study published Monday in The Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences. She is Wendy M. Williams.

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 09, 2011 3:25 pm 
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I wonder what the Conservative/Liberal bias is among MBA's.

One of course could argue that those interested and capable of understanding and empathizing other people (Sociologists, Journalists, teachers, Psychologists, social workers) are far more likely to have a liberal bias and that those with lower empathy quotients tend to shy away from such professions....


(just food for thought, I'm not necessarily arguing that)
YMMV.
;->


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 09, 2011 3:39 pm 
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And, TheRiov, that's exactly the "quick to find other explanations" attitude he's talking about.

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 09, 2011 3:55 pm 
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I'm not making any statements about good or bad. People's fields of study are (generally) a matter of personal choice.

But lets be honest here, race, gender (and to some degree orientation, due to some of the cultural markers that people adopt) are obvious --without role models in those fields, a field can be seen as lacking diversity just by a random sampling of individuals.

On the other hand, political orientation is NOT readily apparent, and neither is religion. (though obviously some people wear their religious affiliation in the form of jewelery) A field can easily be seen as discriminatory if some groups are not represented when they are visually marked as belong to a particular population--not so with political orientation.

we don't see many Christian Scientists going into Medicine either. I don't think anyone would argue that its due to discrimination, but rather the beliefs of those individuals.


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 09, 2011 3:57 pm 
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Psychologists don't count as scientists in my book.


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 09, 2011 3:57 pm 
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My girlfriend would disagree with you. Vociferously.


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 09, 2011 3:59 pm 
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Any "science" that doesn't further technology has no strong need for the scientific method (or variants of) and is barely a science.


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 09, 2011 4:00 pm 
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Lex Luthor wrote:
Psychologists don't count as scientists in my book.

+1

Psychiatrists, moreso. Psychologists, absolutely not.

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 09, 2011 4:00 pm 
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My roommate is getting a Master's in psychology and last month I had to teach her copy + paste in Windows.


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 09, 2011 4:02 pm 
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Lex Luthor wrote:
My roommate is getting a Master's in psychology and last month I had to teach her copy + paste in Windows.


Your roomate is a chick?

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 09, 2011 4:05 pm 
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You clearly have zero idea what research psychologists do then


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 09, 2011 4:06 pm 
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LadyKate wrote:
Lex Luthor wrote:
My roommate is getting a Master's in psychology and last month I had to teach her copy + paste in Windows.


Your roomate is a chick?


Hehehehe

Somehow I doubt it LK.

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 09, 2011 4:06 pm 
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TheRiov wrote:
You clearly have zero idea what research psychologists do then


They ask people questions? Not very scientific.


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 09, 2011 4:08 pm 
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I do have an idea seeing as I've been overseeing a contract with one of the more respected groups of research psychologists on the west coast.

They lie, cheat and steal.

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 09, 2011 4:11 pm 
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Theory's Empire

If you want to discuss the humanities and cultural theory seriously, and this includes in large way psychology, then you need to read this book. There's been no small amount of derision, on these very forums, slung my way when I point out the things being discussed in the very circles this book critiques. Fortunately for most readers, it's also an adequate primer in everything from Structuralism to Queer Theory.

That said, there's no lack of political bias in the humanities and general academics. This includes business schools and economics departments far more than you might imagine. As far as psychology goes, it wasn't exactly a science for the better part of its existence and generally isn't now. There are actual neurosciences and behavioral sciences one can study in this day and age. Psychologists that fall into real science categories tend to look down in scorn at their psychoanalytic and sociological peers.

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 09, 2011 4:14 pm 
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Behavior is measurable and quantifiable. It produces verifiable and statistically significant and reproducible results. It provides hypotheses that are experimentally testable.

How is it not a science


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 09, 2011 4:20 pm 
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Because it hasn't been? Have you ever read Lacan or Freud or Jung? If you want to study behavioral science, then by all means study behavioral science. Psychology is generally not a behavioral science; psychoanalysis and psychotherapy especially not. The "academy" separated the fields for good reason: one is mostly hoodoo and deals with far broader implications than actual behavioral patterning.

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Facism is not a school of thought, it is a racial slur.


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 09, 2011 4:38 pm 
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Its so cute how some scientists are quick to dismiss other fields as 'not science'


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 09, 2011 4:42 pm 
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It's funny to watch somebody act like they know something just because they think their girlfriend does.

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 09, 2011 4:42 pm 
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If you consider psychology a science...then is it fair to say that during my childhood when I was in the middle of the RAD craze and its heinous therapies, that I was a victim of a 'mad scientist'?? lol!

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 09, 2011 4:50 pm 
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TheRiov wrote:
Its so cute how some scientists are quick to dismiss other fields as 'not science'


Physics, Chemistry, Biology, etc. have all led to great scientific advances. What has psychology ever done? Figured out that maybe you shouldn't hit your kids, or that you can train dogs with food (which has already been known)?


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 09, 2011 4:52 pm 
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Screeling wrote:
It's funny to watch somebody act like they know something just because they think their girlfriend does.

I know about the research she and her colleagues do, because we talk about it at length. I wouldn't presume to claim I'm qualified to carry on a in depth conversation on the matter. I can, however, verify that the demands of science are fufilled in the research she does.


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 09, 2011 4:53 pm 
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Lex has a female roommate and TheRiov has a girlfriend?
I must be still asleep....

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 09, 2011 4:55 pm 
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TheRiov wrote:
Screeling wrote:
It's funny to watch somebody act like they know something just because they think their girlfriend does.

I know about the research she and her colleagues do, because we talk about it at length. I wouldn't presume to claim I'm qualified to carry on a in depth conversation on the matter. I can, however, verify that the demands of science are fufilled in the research she does.


What happens with this research other than publishing papers?


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 09, 2011 4:58 pm 
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Ah so pure research != science?

Got it.


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