The Glade 4.0

"Turn the lights down, the party just got wilder."
It is currently Sun Nov 24, 2024 8:26 am

View unanswered posts | View active topics


Board index » The Glade » Hellfire

All times are UTC - 6 hours [ DST ]



Post new topic Reply to topic  Page 1 of 2
  [ 26 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next
  Print view Previous topic | Next topic 
Author Message
TheRiov
PostPosted: Wed Feb 23, 2011 6:17 pm 
Offline
Rihannsu Commander

Joined: Thu Sep 03, 2009 9:31 am
Posts: 4709
Location: Cincinnati OH
http://www.change.org/petitions/do-not- ... o-miscarry

Have not had time to verify but if true.....
Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
Lex Luthor
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Feb 23, 2011 6:20 pm 
Offline

Joined: Thu Sep 03, 2009 10:03 am
Posts: 4922
Quote:
Section 1. All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.


Nope, not citizens.
Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
Lenas
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Feb 23, 2011 6:20 pm 
Offline
Web Ninja
User avatar

Joined: Wed Sep 02, 2009 8:32 pm
Posts: 8248
Location: The Tunt Mansion
Georgia leading the crazy train.
Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
Hopwin
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Feb 23, 2011 7:03 pm 
Offline
The Dancing Cat
User avatar

Joined: Wed Nov 04, 2009 2:21 pm
Posts: 9354
Location: Ohio
What's the bill #?

_________________
Quote:
In comic strips the person on the left always speaks first. - George Carlin
Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
Lenas
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Feb 23, 2011 7:09 pm 
Offline
Web Ninja
User avatar

Joined: Wed Sep 02, 2009 8:32 pm
Posts: 8248
Location: The Tunt Mansion
31965

http://www.legis.ga.gov/Legislation/en- ... tion=31965

http://www.legis.ga.gov/Legislation/20112012/108128.pdf
Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
Vindicarre
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Feb 23, 2011 7:10 pm 
Offline
Noli me calcare
User avatar

Joined: Thu Sep 03, 2009 10:26 am
Posts: 4747
Bill here

Got it from (believe it or not) The Daily Show's forum:
Spoiler:
GOP Georgia state Rep. Bobby Franklin has a well-deserved reputation as being "out there" -- this year he has proposed legislation that would do away with driver's licenses and that would make sexual assault victims be referred to only as "accusers" (not victims) until there was a conviction, and he has (re: DADT) equated gays with "unrepentant drug users". However, since a Daily Kos post last Thursday (Feb. 17), he's been getting a bad rap as proposing that "all miscarriages be investigated by Uterus Police" (I'm paraphrasing blog language - only slightly). See

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2011/02/1 ... scarriages

In fact, the legal language that people are upset about (and as far as I can tell, because of one person's misreading of the proposed legislation's markup) IS ALREADY IN PLACE: in Georgia, all spontaneous fetal deaths (miscarriages) must be reported. The intent of Franklin's legislation is to outlaw abortion and possibly there's some risk of the existing language being used to start an investigation of a "suspicious" miscarriage, but that's not a given.

The full text of Franklin's House Bill 1 is available here: http://www.legis.ga.gov/Legislation/en- ... tion=31965

Check the existing Georgia law (via LexisNexis): Georgia Code, TITLE 31. HEALTH, CHAPTER 10. VITAL RECORDS, § 31-10-18. "Registration of spontaneous fetal deaths".

The REAL interesting part of his proposed bill is where he says that the Supreme Court (as in Roe v. Wade) has no authority over the states...

I don't deny that he is a "wingnut" with "whackadoodle" ideas, but it really bothers me that such imprecise information as "Georgia Representative Wants To Investigate All Miscarriages" can propagate so rapidly. As of this this evening (2/21/11), a Google search on that exact phrase gets 87 results for the past week, 61 of which are for the past 24 hours. A search on "georgia 'uterus police'" has 17,600 result for any time and of which 16,000 are for the past week.

On February 20, someone added this sentence to Bobby Franklin's Wikipedia entry, with a citation for the proposed legislation:

"In House Bill 1, a bill Franklin proposed that would outlaw abortion, a provision is included that would require that every 'spontaneous fetal death' have its cause investigated by the 'proper investigating official.'"

There's plenty of reason for outrage in the world, but this is not one.

A Facebook friend posted this link (with accompanying statement of outrage -- which I initially echoed) which got me started on the story: "Georgia Legislator Wants To Investigate Miscarriages, Create Uterus Police" at http://blogs.babble.com/being-pregnant/ ... us-police/


Looks to be a case of reading comprehension fail + confirmation bias = liberal outrage.

_________________
"Dress cops up as soldiers, give them military equipment, train them in military tactics, tell them they’re fighting a ‘war,’ and the consequences are predictable." —Radley Balko

Image
Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
Lenas
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Feb 23, 2011 7:14 pm 
Offline
Web Ninja
User avatar

Joined: Wed Sep 02, 2009 8:32 pm
Posts: 8248
Location: The Tunt Mansion
It's not a crazy miscarriage law, but it would still make abortions illegal. From the pdf:

Quote:
'Prenatal murder' means the intentional removal of a fetus from a woman with an intention other than to produce a live birth or to remove a dead fetus; provided, however, that if a physician makes a medically justified effort to save the lives of both the mother and the fetus and the fetus does not survive, such action shall not be prenatal murder. Such term does not include a naturally occurring expulsion of a fetus known medically as a 'spontaneous abortion' and popularly as a 'miscarriage' so long as there is no human involvement whatsoever in the causation of such event
Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
Hopwin
 Post subject: Re:
PostPosted: Thu Feb 24, 2011 7:43 am 
Offline
The Dancing Cat
User avatar

Joined: Wed Nov 04, 2009 2:21 pm
Posts: 9354
Location: Ohio
Vindicarre wrote:
There's plenty of reason for outrage in the world, but this is not one.

Looks to be a case of reading comprehension fail + confirmation bias = liberal outrage.


Sadly that is what happens with these hot button issues. That's why I asked for the specific bill # since the original link didn't reference it anywhere on their page or in their letter of protest.

_________________
Quote:
In comic strips the person on the left always speaks first. - George Carlin
Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
Aizle
 Post subject: Re: Re:
PostPosted: Thu Feb 24, 2011 10:42 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Sep 08, 2009 9:36 am
Posts: 4320
Hopwin wrote:
Vindicarre wrote:
There's plenty of reason for outrage in the world, but this is not one.

Looks to be a case of reading comprehension fail + confirmation bias = liberal outrage.


Sadly that is what happens with these hot button issues. That's why I asked for the specific bill # since the original link didn't reference it anywhere on their page or in their letter of protest.


Yeah, except the concerns raised in the OP are valid.
Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
Hopwin
 Post subject: Re: Re:
PostPosted: Thu Feb 24, 2011 10:56 am 
Offline
The Dancing Cat
User avatar

Joined: Wed Nov 04, 2009 2:21 pm
Posts: 9354
Location: Ohio
Aizle wrote:
Hopwin wrote:
Vindicarre wrote:
There's plenty of reason for outrage in the world, but this is not one.

Looks to be a case of reading comprehension fail + confirmation bias = liberal outrage.


Sadly that is what happens with these hot button issues. That's why I asked for the specific bill # since the original link didn't reference it anywhere on their page or in their letter of protest.


Yeah, except the concerns raised in the OP are valid.


Or not. New portion of the law:
Quote:
114 (2) 'Prenatal murder' means the intentional removal of a fetus from a woman with an
115 intention other than to produce a live birth or to remove a dead fetus; provided, however,
116 that if a physician makes a medically justified effort to save the lives of both the mother
117 and the fetus and the fetus does not survive, such action shall not be prenatal murder.
118 Such term does not include a naturally occurring expulsion of a fetus known medically
119 as a 'spontaneous abortion' and popularly as a 'miscarriage' so long as there is no human
120 involvement whatsoever in the causation of such event.


Existing law (http://law.onecle.com/georgia/31/31-10-18.html):
Quote:
197 Said title is further amended by revising subsection (a) of Code Section 31-10-18, relating
198 to registration of spontaneous fetal deaths, as follows:
199 "(a) A report of spontaneous fetal death for each spontaneous fetal death which occurs in
200 this state shall be filed with the local registrar of the county in which the delivery occurred
201 within 72 hours after such delivery in accordance with this Code section unless the place
202 of fetal death is unknown, in which case a fetal death certificate shall be filed in the county
203 in which the dead fetus was found within 72 hours after such occurrence. All induced
204 terminations of pregnancy shall be reported in the manner prescribed in Code Section
205 31-10-19. Preparation and filing of reports of spontaneous fetal death shall be as follows:
206 (1) When a dead fetus is delivered in an institution, the person in charge of the institution
207 or that person's designated representative shall prepare and file the report;
208 (2) When a dead fetus is delivered outside an institution, the physician in attendance at
209 or immediately after delivery shall prepare and file the report;
210 (3) When a spontaneous fetal death required to be reported by this Code section occurs
211 without medical attendance at or immediately after the delivery or when inquiry is
212 required by Article 2 of Chapter 16 of Title 45, the 'Georgia Death Investigation Act,' the
213 proper investigating official shall investigate the cause of fetal death and shall prepare
214 and file the report within 30 days; and
215 (4) When a spontaneous fetal death occurs in a moving conveyance and the fetus is first
216 removed from the conveyance in this state or when a dead fetus is found in this state and
217 the place of fetal death is unknown, the fetal death shall be reported in this state. The
218 place where the fetus was first removed from the conveyance or the dead fetus was found
219 shall be considered the place of fetal death."


In other words, they already report miscarriages and "investigate" them to the same degree that they investigate any human death (aka document the cause of death).

You are welcome to say the sentiments expressed in the OP are valid but that doesn't change the fact that the bill they are targetting has nothing to do with the reporting/investigation of pre-natal deaths.

_________________
Quote:
In comic strips the person on the left always speaks first. - George Carlin
Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
Aizle
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Feb 24, 2011 11:20 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Sep 08, 2009 9:36 am
Posts: 4320
It doesn't invalidate my statement. Further, assuming that abortions are legal today, it adds an element of criminality to those investigations that likely isn't there today.
Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
Hopwin
 Post subject: Re:
PostPosted: Thu Feb 24, 2011 12:37 pm 
Offline
The Dancing Cat
User avatar

Joined: Wed Nov 04, 2009 2:21 pm
Posts: 9354
Location: Ohio
Aizle wrote:
It doesn't invalidate my statement. Further, assuming that abortions are legal today, it adds an element of criminality to those investigations that likely isn't there today.

No it makes abortions illegal. Flat-out. In black and white. Any abortion performed would now be murder. Any pre-natal death would be documented and sent to the state as it is now the only difference is that under the new law if cause of death is abortion then a criminal case is opened.

_________________
Quote:
In comic strips the person on the left always speaks first. - George Carlin
Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
Khross
PostPosted: Thu Feb 24, 2011 1:35 pm 
Offline
Evil Bastard™
User avatar

Joined: Thu Sep 03, 2009 9:07 am
Posts: 7542
Location: Doomstadt, Latveria
Wow, so much ignorance going on here ...

1. Georgia prohibits "partial birth abortions" and late term abortions already. These prohibitions have held up in court.

2. The law doesn't prohibit abortions at all, because basic abortion procedural already kills the fetus and dismembers it in utero in the first place.

3. This law would actually allow for partial birth abortions in survival of the mother situations if every attempt was made to save both parties.

But, you know, whatever ...

Ignorance + Failure in Reading Comprehension + Confirmation Bias = Idiots Talking ****.

_________________
Corolinth wrote:
Facism is not a school of thought, it is a racial slur.
Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
Lenas
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Feb 24, 2011 2:12 pm 
Offline
Web Ninja
User avatar

Joined: Wed Sep 02, 2009 8:32 pm
Posts: 8248
Location: The Tunt Mansion
I'm sorry for being an idiot, Khross, but the way I can take this:

Quote:
'Prenatal murder' means the intentional removal of a fetus from a woman with an intention other than to produce a live birth or to remove a dead fetus;

.. is to read, "intentional abortions are murder." The only other way to take it is to assume that the bill maker is okay with abortions so long as the fetus is killed in utero and removed after death, in which case the bill seems kind of unnecessary.
Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
Khross
PostPosted: Thu Feb 24, 2011 2:14 pm 
Offline
Evil Bastard™
User avatar

Joined: Thu Sep 03, 2009 9:07 am
Posts: 7542
Location: Doomstadt, Latveria
Lenas:

Bill is response to a few induced labor abortions that got the mother killed. It's also an attempt to clarify the existing legal language. There's nothing outrageous going on here.

_________________
Corolinth wrote:
Facism is not a school of thought, it is a racial slur.
Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
Hopwin
PostPosted: Thu Feb 24, 2011 3:46 pm 
Offline
The Dancing Cat
User avatar

Joined: Wed Nov 04, 2009 2:21 pm
Posts: 9354
Location: Ohio
Khross wrote:
Wow, so much ignorance going on here ...

1. Georgia prohibits "partial birth abortions" and late term abortions already. These prohibitions have held up in court.

2. The law doesn't prohibit abortions at all, because basic abortion procedural already kills the fetus and dismembers it in utero in the first place.

3. This law would actually allow for partial birth abortions in survival of the mother situations if every attempt was made to save both parties.

But, you know, whatever ...

Ignorance + Failure in Reading Comprehension + Confirmation Bias = Idiots Talking ****.


Not to herp on your derp there, but article I of the bill states:

Quote:
14 (a) The State of Georgia has the duty to protect all innocent life from the moment of
15 conception until natural death. We know that life begins at conception. After nearly four
16 decades of legal human prenatal murder, it is now abundantly clear that the practice has
17 negatively impacted the people of this state in many ways, including economic, health,
18 physical, psychological, emotional, and medical well-being. These, too, are areas of
19 legitimate concern and duty of this state. The General Assembly therefore makes the
20 following findings of fact:
21 (1) A fetus is a person for all purposes under the laws of this state from the moment of
22 conception;
23 (2) The Georgia Constitution, at Article I, Section I, Paragraph II, provides: 'Protection
24 to person and property is the paramount duty of government and shall be impartial and
11 LC 21 0916
H. B. 1
- 2 -
25 complete. No person shall be denied the equal protection of the laws.' Because a fetus
26 is a person, constitutional protection attaches at the moment of conception. It is therefore
27 the duty of the General Assembly to protect the innocent life that is being taken;


How can you argue that this doesn't make abortion murder in that a fetus is now a person and abortion takes that person's life?

_________________
Quote:
In comic strips the person on the left always speaks first. - George Carlin
Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
Khross
PostPosted: Thu Feb 24, 2011 3:56 pm 
Offline
Evil Bastard™
User avatar

Joined: Thu Sep 03, 2009 9:07 am
Posts: 7542
Location: Doomstadt, Latveria
Hopwin:

Eh, because it honestly doesn't. Georgia's not exactly one of those states likely to run up against Roe v. Wade any time soon, seeing as how it's got one of the highest abortion rates in the country (and a rising one at that).

_________________
Corolinth wrote:
Facism is not a school of thought, it is a racial slur.
Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
Hopwin
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Feb 24, 2011 6:44 pm 
Offline
The Dancing Cat
User avatar

Joined: Wed Nov 04, 2009 2:21 pm
Posts: 9354
Location: Ohio
I don't think anyone expects this bill to pass but if it did abortion would become murder.

_________________
Quote:
In comic strips the person on the left always speaks first. - George Carlin
Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
darksiege
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Mar 01, 2011 3:50 am 
Offline
Grrr... Eat your oatmeal!!
User avatar

Joined: Wed Sep 02, 2009 11:07 pm
Posts: 5073
:) Highest abortion rate because even Georgian's do not want to be responsible for bringing another Georgian into the world.

_________________
Darksiege
Traveller, Calé, Whisperer
Lead me not into temptation; for I know a shortcut
Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
Khross
 Post subject: Re:
PostPosted: Tue Mar 01, 2011 8:05 am 
Offline
Evil Bastard™
User avatar

Joined: Thu Sep 03, 2009 9:07 am
Posts: 7542
Location: Doomstadt, Latveria
darksiege wrote:
:) Highest abortion rate because even Georgian's do not want to be responsible for bringing another Georgian into the world.
Funny that you say that ...

Georgia happens to be the fastest growing state, population wise, in the nation. Atlanta remains the fast growing city in the country. It seems people want to move here for some reason or another.

_________________
Corolinth wrote:
Facism is not a school of thought, it is a racial slur.
Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
Hopwin
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Mar 01, 2011 8:47 am 
Offline
The Dancing Cat
User avatar

Joined: Wed Nov 04, 2009 2:21 pm
Posts: 9354
Location: Ohio
Perhaps it is the high proportion of blacks...

_________________
Quote:
In comic strips the person on the left always speaks first. - George Carlin
Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
Lenas
 Post subject: Re: Re:
PostPosted: Tue Mar 01, 2011 10:36 pm 
Offline
Web Ninja
User avatar

Joined: Wed Sep 02, 2009 8:32 pm
Posts: 8248
Location: The Tunt Mansion
Khross wrote:
Georgia happens to be the fastest growing state, population wise, in the nation. Atlanta remains the fast growing city in the country. It seems people want to move here for some reason or another.


Interesting that you assume the population is booming for good reason.
Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
darksiege
 Post subject: Re: Re:
PostPosted: Tue Mar 01, 2011 11:04 pm 
Offline
Grrr... Eat your oatmeal!!
User avatar

Joined: Wed Sep 02, 2009 11:07 pm
Posts: 5073
Lenas wrote:
Interesting that you assume the population is booming for good reason.


I attribute all population booms to the same factor.... Your town sucks and there is nothing else to do but ****.

That is how Pawtucket was when I was a teenager.

"Well we got high... now lets get laid"

_________________
Darksiege
Traveller, Calé, Whisperer
Lead me not into temptation; for I know a shortcut
Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
Lenas
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Mar 02, 2011 12:19 am 
Offline
Web Ninja
User avatar

Joined: Wed Sep 02, 2009 8:32 pm
Posts: 8248
Location: The Tunt Mansion
One of the highest abortion rates in the country and simultaneously one of the fastest-growing states in the country. I'm going to go ahead and guess that they're both connected to low education/intelligence more than they're connected to boredom.

I don't think Atlanta would be that boring, anyway ;) It's not like living out in Montana.
Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
darksiege
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Mar 02, 2011 12:40 am 
Offline
Grrr... Eat your oatmeal!!
User avatar

Joined: Wed Sep 02, 2009 11:07 pm
Posts: 5073
Meh, I am just being a dick.

_________________
Darksiege
Traveller, Calé, Whisperer
Lead me not into temptation; for I know a shortcut
Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  Page 1 of 2
  [ 26 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next

Board index » The Glade » Hellfire

All times are UTC - 6 hours [ DST ]

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 140 guests

You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
cron
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group