The Glade 4.0

http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/illi ... 2bc8b.html



I'm glad the court arrived at this decision. Also nowadays when people say the word "gay" it doesn't necessarily mean "homosexual".

So only her possible connotations make the decision right?

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I prefer to think of them as "Fighting evil in another dimension"

No, mostly free speech, but that's why I said also.

Okay fair enough. Yeah If we are going to allow T Shirts with sayings on it then we have to be fairly broad on that topic. Now if the school has a dress code that requires collared shirts without any writing on them, then that's a different story. However I don't think that's the case here.

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I prefer to think of them as "Fighting evil in another dimension"

And that's not the basis the case was argued on.

I am pleased by this decision, if surprised that it was made in Illinois, lol. It's an evenhanded decision that makes it clear that the school opened the door to this with its advocacy.

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"Aaaah! Emotions are weird!" - Amdee
"... Mirrorshades prevent the forces of normalcy from realizing that one is crazed and possibly dangerous. They are the symbol of the sun-staring visionary, the biker, the rocker, the policeman, and similar outlaws." - Bruce Sterling, preface to Mirrorshades

I fail to see how drawing attention to harrassment of gay students is advocacy of being gay.

http://www.cnn.com/2011/US/03/02/scotus ... &iref=BN1#


And another victory for free speech. *sigh* ... yay.

If the gays can have free speech then so can the anti-gays. It's all fair. Have both or neither.

It is a victory for free speech TheRiov.

Doesn't mean that Westboro doesn't need their church burned down and all their members beat senseless...

This thread is full of win.

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He didn't say it was advocacy of being gay. Just that it was advocacy.

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Sail forth! steer for the deep waters only!
Reckless, O soul, exploring, I with thee, and thou with me;
For we are bound where mariner has not yet dared to go,
And we will risk the ship, ourselves and all.

I agree its a victory. there was no irony in that statement. Doesn't mean I like what it forces us to do.

It forces us to imitate Varg Vikernes?

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Darksiege
Traveller, Calé, Whisperer
Lead me not into temptation; for I know a shortcut

No, it forces us to imitate Count Grishnackh.

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"Dress cops up as soldiers, give them military equipment, train them in military tactics, tell them they’re fighting a ‘war,’ and the consequences are predictable." —Radley Balko

Because clearly they are drawing attention to it in order to point out that it is wrong to harass gay students. This is another way of saying "it's perfectly all right to be gay" because if it wasn't all right to be gay it would be ok to give people a hard time about it, just like it's ok to ostracize people for objectionable behaviors. The advocacy being done is "being gay is normal and you shouldn't harrass them."

While that position is a good one, that doesn't change the fact that it's pro-gay advocacy. It's definitely pro-gay to advocate that it should be regarded as a perfectly normal social occurance.

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"Hysterical children shrieking about right-wing anything need to go sit in the corner and be quiet while the adults are talking."

I don't think so, to be honest. I rather think that "being gay is normal" and "you shouldn't harass gay people" are two separate things, and even if you don't believe being gay is normal, advocating a lack of harassment doesn't strike me as necessarily advocating homosexuality, just humanity.

I can see your point, but A) I object to taking one side of a debate and claiming it's "humanity"; that smacks of the tactic of simply calling any opponent you run across inhuman, insane, or the like in order to avoid serious debate and B) I don't see that's it's terribly likely that anyone is advocating a stop to harassment of gays without also advocating that being gay is perfectly normal. If so, there wouldn't have been an issue with an "anti-gay" t-shirt. Wearing a t-shirt with such an incredibly mild cricticism of homosexuality on it is hardly "harassment" by any reasonable standard.

I find it far more likely that the message was not just "leave gay students alone"; it was "leave them alone, and the fact that they're gay is perfectly all right; any dissenting opinions will be subject to all the usual pressures we put on people who express opinions contrary to the official line of 'tolerance'." From the action taken against the student, that seems fairly evident.

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"Hysterical children shrieking about right-wing anything need to go sit in the corner and be quiet while the adults are talking."

I'm sure that being gay is perfectly all right, but it's still weird. If someone told me they like to fill a bowl with ketchup and eat it (I knew someone like this), I would say that is pretty weird too.

I figured my usage of the word "humanity" would stick in your craw, but being sick and tired last night, the word I wanted wasn't coming to me. "Basic civility" is what I intended. Harassment is not the default state of human interaction. It in and of itself is taking a side. Saying 'gay kids shouldn't be harassed' isn't necessarily being pro-gay, it's just being anti-harassment.

Rolling back around to the OP, is this Constitutionally-protected idiot's shirt 'harassment'? No, it's just stupid. Should she be allowed to wear it? Barring a dress code specifically prohibiting it, yes. Should she wear it? That's another question.

On a side note, I'd be interested to see more about the school's role in this "Day of Silence," to be honest. There are some questions there.

Farsky gets it.

Much like the "Mosque at/near/down the street from Ground Zero".



That seems to be the rub.

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"Dress cops up as soldiers, give them military equipment, train them in military tactics, tell them they’re fighting a ‘war,’ and the consequences are predictable." —Radley Balko

That's fine, but it doesn't really stick in my craw since I agree the decent thing to do is not to harass gays. I object to it because of the habit minorities have of claiming the sole right to determine what is and isn't harassment of them, and then using that to define anything they object to as a form of harassment (or racism or whatever). Quickly, therefore, anything that minority, or at least its vocal members don't want to hear becomes "harassment" and dialogue is stifled; only the most mealy-mouthed debate is permitted.



Like I said, I don't agree with that. I would say not being harassed is to the benefit of gays; i.e. a pro for them.



I don't see that she's an idiot, or that she shouldn't wear it; if she asked me if she should wear it I would tell her "no, because I disagree with it, not because there's anything wrong with wearing it." Whether homosexual sex is morally acceptable is a perfectly acceptable topic of social debate. I happen to think that it is acceptable, but I do not see any reason to consider people stupid just for holding an unpopular opinion. There certainly is room for debate; that debate may be unproductive based on the lack of common moral ground for the different sides, but it is there nonetheless.



Indeed.

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"Hysterical children shrieking about right-wing anything need to go sit in the corner and be quiet while the adults are talking."

Without starting a new thread, cranted the stupidity of Illinois could be its own thread.

http://nation.foxnews.com/taxes/2011/03 ... -your-401k

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"Life isn't divided into genres. It's a horrifying, romantic, tragic, comical, science-fiction cowboy detective novel. You know, with a bit of pornography if you're lucky."
— Alan Moore

Um, huh? Missing the connection with the gay-shirt thing. That takes me to a piece about Democrats taxing 401(k)s.

probably should have made a new topic, I tend to not think it through at night, my brain saw Ill, and shoe horned it in. My bad.

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"Life isn't divided into genres. It's a horrifying, romantic, tragic, comical, science-fiction cowboy detective novel. You know, with a bit of pornography if you're lucky."
— Alan Moore