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Planes, Trains and Sidewalks?
https://gladerebooted.net/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=5614
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Author:  Vindicarre [ Thu Mar 03, 2011 2:47 am ]
Post subject:  Planes, Trains and Sidewalks?

TSA plans for testing full body scans for mass transit, events and on the street:

Spoiler:
Giving Transportation Security Administration agents a peek under your clothes may soon be a practice that goes well beyond airport checkpoints. Newly uncovered documents show that as early as 2006, the Department of Homeland Security has been planning pilot programs to deploy mobile scanning units that can be set up at public events and in train stations, along with mobile x-ray vans capable of scanning pedestrians on city streets.

The non-profit Electronic Privacy Information Center (EPIC) on Wednesday published documents it obtained from the Department of Homeland Security showing that from 2006 to 2008 the agency planned a study of of new anti-terrorism technologies that EPIC believes raise serious privacy concerns. The projects range from what the DHS describes as “a walk through x-ray screening system that could be deployed at entrances to special events or other points of interest” to “covert inspection of moving subjects” employing the same backscatter imaging technology currently used in American airports.

The 173-page collection of contracts and reports, acquired through a Freedom of Information Act request, includes contracts with Siemens Corporations, Northeastern University, and Rapiscan Systems. The study was expected to cost more than $3.5 million.

One project allocated to Northeastern University and Siemens would mount backscatter x-ray scanners and video cameras on roving vans, along with other cameras on buildings and utility poles, to monitor groups of pedestrians, assess what they carried, and even track their eye movements. In another program, the researchers were asked to develop a system of long range x-ray scanning to determine what metal objects an individual might have on his or her body at distances up to thirty feet.


“This would allow them to take these technologies out of the airport and into other contexts like public streets, special events and ground transit,” says Ginger McCall, an attorney with EPIC. “It’s a clear violation of the fourth amendment that’s very invasive, not necessarily effective, and poses all the same radiation risks as the airport scans.”

It’s not clear to what degree the technologies outlined in the DHS documents have been implemented. Multiple contacts at the DHS public affairs office didn’t respond to a request for comment Wednesday afternoon.

Update: A TSA official responds in a statement that the “TSA has not tested the advanced imaging technology that is currently used at airports in mass transit environments and does not have plans to do so.”

A privacy assessment included in the documents for one aspect of the plans that focused on train security suggests that images wouldn’t be tied to any personally identifiable information such as a subject’s name. Any images shared outside the project or used for training purposes would have faces blurred, and employees using the system would be trained to avoid privacy violations, the document says. If the scanners were to adopt privacy enhancements deployed in new versions of the airport full body scanners currently being tested by the TSA, they would also use nondescript outlines of people rather than defined images, only showing items of interest on the subject’s body.

But EPIC’s McCall says that those safeguards are irrelevant: If scanners are deployed in public settings, it doesn’t matter if they show full naked images or merely the objects in a user’s pockets. “When you’re out walking on the street, it’s not acceptable for an officer to come up and search your bag without probable cause or consent.,” she says. “This is the digital equivalent.”

In August of last year, Joe Reiss, the vice president of marketing of security contractor American Sciences & Engineering told me in an interview that the company had sold more than 500 of its backscatter x-ray vans to governments around the world, including some deployed in the U.S. Those vans are capable of scanning people, the inside of cars and even the internals of some buildings while rolling down public streets. The company claims that its systems’ “primary purpose is to image vehicles and their contents,” and that “the system cannot be used to identify an individual, or the race, sex or age of the person.” But Reiss admitted that the van scans do penetrate clothing, and EPIC president Marc Rotenberg called them “one of the most intrusive technologies conceivable.”

On top of exposing research into possible expansion of the scanner program, EPIC has also filed a lawsuit against the DHS that fights the use of the scanners in airports. The group is arguing its case in a D.C. appellate court next week, though some expect the scanners to be ruled constitutional.


These excuses still sounding good?
Quote:
Nah, can't happen here.

Quote:
It's not a Right to take a plane. Take a bus, your car or walk.

Author:  Rorinthas [ Thu Mar 03, 2011 9:31 am ]
Post subject:  Planes, Trains and Sidewalks?

Without context of actual implementation this is just pandering to mass hysteria.

Author:  Rynar [ Thu Mar 03, 2011 9:35 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Planes, Trains and Sidewalks?

Rorinthas wrote:
Without context of actual implementation this is just pandering to mass hysteria.


Um... no it isn't.

Pandering to mass hysteria would be going on if they hadn't been actively looking into how it could be done and implemented.

Since they have, it is a legitimate concern.

Author:  Rorinthas [ Thu Mar 03, 2011 9:54 am ]
Post subject: 

but they didn't?
Quote:
Update: A TSA official responds in a statement that the “TSA has not tested the advanced imaging technology that is currently used at airports in mass transit environments and does not have plans to do so.”


a mobile device could be useful in certain situation, such as if you are having a VIP at a stadium event and wanted to control security. If I have to walk though one for no good reason to go two blocks and buy bread, i'd consider that a problem.

Author:  Aizle [ Thu Mar 03, 2011 10:27 am ]
Post subject: 

Additionally, Amtrak is actually planning on loosening their regulations around what you can travel with. They are apparently planning on allowing firearms soon. This is per friends of mine who just took the train to visit.

Author:  Lex Luthor [ Thu Mar 03, 2011 1:09 pm ]
Post subject: 

Until multiple trains are bombed on a routine basis I don't see why we should do this.

Author:  Vindicarre [ Thu Mar 03, 2011 2:02 pm ]
Post subject:  Re:

Rorinthas wrote:
but they didn't?
Quote:
Update: A TSA official responds in a statement that the “TSA has not tested the advanced imaging technology that is currently used at airports in mass transit environments and does not have plans to do so.”


You'll notice that they specified "imaging technology that is currently used..." the fact that the Gov't has purchased mobile vans should give you pause while thinking that they don't use vans at the airport security line.

Rorinthas wrote:
a mobile device could be useful in certain situation, such as if you are having a VIP at a stadium event and wanted to control security. If I have to walk though one for no good reason to go two blocks and buy bread, i'd consider that a problem.


It's a shame that you don't have to "walk through":

EPIC wrote:
One project allocated to Northeastern University and Siemens would mount backscatter x-ray scanners and video cameras on roving vans, along with other cameras on buildings and utility poles, to monitor groups of pedestrians, assess what they carried, and even track their eye movements. In another program, the researchers were asked to develop a system of long range x-ray scanning to determine what metal objects an individual might have on his or her body at distances up to thirty feet.


I agree, though, that these technologies would be useful, I'd just prefer not to be scanned/imaged/x-rayed because somebody needs to feel "safe".

Author:  Aizle [ Thu Mar 03, 2011 3:00 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Re:

Vindicarre wrote:
I agree, though, that these technologies would be useful, I'd just prefer not to be scanned/imaged/x-rayed because somebody needs to feel "safe".


So just so I can understand your position correctly, do you believe that these devices are not effective at detecting dangers? And do you not believe that there is much risk of the other mass transit methods being targeted?

Author:  Vindicarre [ Thu Mar 03, 2011 3:23 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Re:

Aizle wrote:
Vindicarre wrote:
I agree, though, that these technologies would be useful, I'd just prefer not to be scanned/imaged/x-rayed because somebody needs to feel "safe".


So just so I can understand your position correctly, do you believe that these devices are not effective at detecting dangers?


I don't believe these devices work "as advertised" by the Gov't and that other methods are at least as effective and less intrusive.

Aizle wrote:
And do you not believe that there is much risk of the other mass transit methods being targeted?

Do you mean targeted by the Gov't or terrorists? In either case, they have been already been targeted and I believe they will continue to be in the future - by both entities.

Author:  Aizle [ Thu Mar 03, 2011 5:16 pm ]
Post subject: 

Thanks Vindi.

I pretty much agree with everything, although I don't believe there is as much over selling from the government as you do. But I do completely agree that there are other methods that are at least as effective if not more so that we aren't using. Tho I really attribute that to American culture, not the government specifically. We as a culture want a magic pill for everything. In the scope of travel safety, that magic pill is technology.

Author:  Vindicarre [ Thu Mar 03, 2011 5:46 pm ]
Post subject: 

Good points Aizle; addressing "culture of technology" is especially insightful. Couple that with the hype we are constantly bombarded with regarding terrorists making them seem like a danger so large and widespread that we need something just as big, the Government, to save us from it - and we have a problem, eh?

Author:  Arathain Kelvar [ Fri Mar 04, 2011 1:16 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Re:

Aizle wrote:
Vindicarre wrote:
I agree, though, that these technologies would be useful, I'd just prefer not to be scanned/imaged/x-rayed because somebody needs to feel "safe".


So just so I can understand your position correctly, do you believe that these devices are not effective at detecting dangers? And do you not believe that there is much risk of the other mass transit methods being targeted?


Who gives a ****?

I don't care if they work well or not. The TSA needs to **** off.

Author:  darksiege [ Sat Mar 05, 2011 1:55 am ]
Post subject: 

I agree that the TSA needs to **** off, but I would support any scanning device that scans someone and if they do not have at least a 90 IQ as an adult they are executed. This planet would get so empty...

Author:  Arathain Kelvar [ Mon Mar 07, 2011 1:15 pm ]
Post subject:  Re:

darksiege wrote:
I agree that the TSA needs to **** off, but I would support any scanning device that scans someone and if they do not have at least a 90 IQ as an adult they are executed. This planet would get so empty...


I don't think IQ tracks very well with "perceived" stupidity. I suspect you would be extremely disappointed.

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