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Abortion as a means of crime reduction
https://gladerebooted.net/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=5696
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Author:  LadyKate [ Sun Mar 13, 2011 3:30 pm ]
Post subject:  Abortion as a means of crime reduction

Just watched the documentary, "Freakonomics" and it was pretty interesting.
One segment showed that a huge drop in crime in the 90's was nearly 50% attributable to Roe v Wade...basically saying that by the time lower economic kids would have reached the age of committing major crimes, it didn't happen because these kids were aborted.
They gave quite a few examples and statistics from other states and time periods to back it up...profound, to say the least.

Author:  Rorinthas [ Sun Mar 13, 2011 3:48 pm ]
Post subject: 

Choice! Choice! It's all about Choice!

Remember the government feels that anything you are free to do you can be forced to do since it's not illegal.

Author:  Rynar [ Sun Mar 13, 2011 3:56 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Abortion as a means of crime reduction

LadyKate wrote:
Just watched the documentary, "Freakonomics" and it was pretty interesting.
One segment showed that a huge drop in crime in the 90's was nearly 50% attributable to Roe v Wade...basically saying that by the time lower economic kids would have reached the age of committing major crimes, it didn't happen because these kids were aborted.
They gave quite a few examples and statistics from other states and time periods to back it up...profound, to say the least.


Great post, LK. This has long been one of my biggest gripes with the leftist welfare state. It passively promotes a silent genocide in order to perpetuate itself, incentivizing a prenatal slaughter of groups which draw heavily on the resources of the state, reducing costs. The eugenics of Margaret Sanger put to practice.

Author:  SuiNeko [ Sun Mar 13, 2011 6:42 pm ]
Post subject: 

What? The welfare state perpetuates itself by preemptively killing the demographic that it benefits the most?

Author:  Corolinth [ Sun Mar 13, 2011 6:44 pm ]
Post subject: 

We're talking about a demographic that isn't responsible enough to use proper birth control measures. That the crime rate would have dropped significantly a generation after abortion bands were found to be unconstitutional is no big shock. I suppose we could ban abortion and force all of the wholesome, morally upstanding rightists to adopt all of the resulting babies, but somehow I don't see that happening. We'd have a huge firestorm about the government taking away people's rights to choose who they accept into their families.

Author:  Rynar [ Sun Mar 13, 2011 7:44 pm ]
Post subject:  Re:

SuiNeko wrote:
What? The welfare state perpetuates itself by preemptively killing the demographic that it benefits the most?


Yes. It makes sure that their aren't as many people left for it to support in order to manage it's costs.

Author:  Rynar [ Sun Mar 13, 2011 7:45 pm ]
Post subject:  Re:

Corolinth wrote:
We're talking about a demographic that isn't responsible enough to use proper birth control measures. That the crime rate would have dropped significantly a generation after abortion bands were found to be unconstitutional is no big shock. I suppose we could ban abortion and force all of the wholesome, morally upstanding rightists to adopt all of the resulting babies, but somehow I don't see that happening. We'd have a huge firestorm about the government taking away people's rights to choose who they accept into their families.


Seems like a false choice to me.

Author:  Aizle [ Sun Mar 13, 2011 9:38 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Abortion as a means of crime reduction

Rynar wrote:
LadyKate wrote:
Just watched the documentary, "Freakonomics" and it was pretty interesting.
One segment showed that a huge drop in crime in the 90's was nearly 50% attributable to Roe v Wade...basically saying that by the time lower economic kids would have reached the age of committing major crimes, it didn't happen because these kids were aborted.
They gave quite a few examples and statistics from other states and time periods to back it up...profound, to say the least.


Great post, LK. This has long been one of my biggest gripes with the leftist welfare state. It passively promotes a silent genocide in order to perpetuate itself, incentivizing a prenatal slaughter of groups which draw heavily on the resources of the state, reducing costs. The eugenics of Margaret Sanger put to practice.


You need to show your work on that. How exactly is permitting an abortion promoting genocide? No one is forcing these people into doing anything.

Author:  Khross [ Sun Mar 13, 2011 10:27 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Abortion as a means of crime reduction

Have you ever looked at the demographic data on abortion, Aizle?

Author:  Wwen [ Sun Mar 13, 2011 10:41 pm ]
Post subject: 

They made "Freakonomics" into a documentary? Isn't the book like 10 years old? (Not in same country as my house or I'd look at it.)

Author:  TheRiov [ Sun Mar 13, 2011 10:44 pm ]
Post subject: 

Khross, that's disingenuous. Is there ANY evidence that such populations are decreasing in size? Beyond that, this is an unintended consequence not a deliberate attempt at ethnic cleansing. This is not giving a people smallpox infected blankets, or even providing alcohol to a population with no prior access to it for the specific purpose of pacifying a population.

The fact of the matter is the demographics most likely to get abortions are also the populations most likely to have difficulty supporting such children.

Anyone have the statistics on birth control in similar situations?

Author:  Rynar [ Sun Mar 13, 2011 10:53 pm ]
Post subject:  Re:

TheRiov wrote:
Khross, that's disingenuous. Is there ANY evidence that such populations are decreasing in size?


A gross decrease in population on a year to year basis wouldn't nessecarily be the best indicator of whether the campain was successful or not. The fact of the matter is, abortion has had a larger effect on african-Americans than any other ethnic group, and the percentages are staggering.

Quote:
Beyond that, this is an unintended consequence not a deliberate attempt at ethnic cleansing. This is not giving a people smallpox infected blankets, or even providing alcohol to a population with no prior access to it for the specific purpose of pacifying a population.


This is how a neo-capitalist society perpetrates a genocide. It cleverly sells the undesired population on the notion of killing itself, and the problem is solved. It was the stated goals of the founder of the largest abortion chain store in the country, and it worked as intended. It even draws resources directly from the government exactly the way other largely mercatilist organizations do.

Quote:
The fact of the matter is the demographics most likely to get abortions are also the populations most likely to have difficulty supporting such children.

Anyone have the statistics on birth control in similar situations?



Working as intended.

Author:  Rorinthas [ Sun Mar 13, 2011 10:57 pm ]
Post subject:  Abortion as a means of crime reduction

Corolinth wrote:
We're talking about a demographic that isn't responsible enough to use proper birth control measures. That the crime rate would have dropped significantly a generation after abortion bands were found to be unconstitutional is no big shock. I suppose we could ban abortion and force all of the wholesome, morally upstanding rightists to adopt all of the resulting babies, but somehow I don't see that happening. We'd have a huge firestorm about the government taking away people's rights to choose who they accept into their families.

Most folks I know who are looking to adopt would be glad to take one. However right now in this country the demand for newborns outnumbers the supply, so people wait and jump though hoops and wait some more. Then they hire expensive lawyers, and they wait some more. Finally, if they can afford the mandatory visits, they adopt overseas.

Author:  Lex Luthor [ Sun Mar 13, 2011 11:18 pm ]
Post subject: 

It's not genocide when they have a net population increase. I think there's two types of genocide, Glade sensationalist genocide and real genocide where population declines as a result.

Author:  Rynar [ Sun Mar 13, 2011 11:19 pm ]
Post subject:  Re:

Lex Luthor wrote:
It's not genocide when they have a net population increase.


You are using a very bad definition.

Author:  Lex Luthor [ Sun Mar 13, 2011 11:20 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Re:

Rynar wrote:
Lex Luthor wrote:
It's not genocide when they have a net population increase.


You are using a very bad definition.


Ok. Then perhaps it is an extremely insignificant genocide since the population of any ethnic group you're talking about is increasing.

Author:  Rynar [ Sun Mar 13, 2011 11:32 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Re:

Lex Luthor wrote:
Rynar wrote:
Lex Luthor wrote:
It's not genocide when they have a net population increase.


You are using a very bad definition.


Ok. Then perhaps it is an extremely insignificant genocide since the population of any ethnic group you're talking about is increasing.


Quote:
Kevin McGary, author of “Instanity!, “Abortion has everything to do with human right, it has everything to do with civil rights, it has everything to do with social justice. If you’re sincere about racism, this is the pivotal issue.” McGary estimated that 94 percent of Planned Parenthood’s clinics are placed in African American neighborhoods. “Forty percent of all abortions are being performed on African American children,” he said. Noting African Americans make up 12 percent of the population, and estimating that women of childbearing age make up 3 percent of the population, “23 million people have been denied life,” he said. “How can we have principled people that ignore this issue?” he asked, noting that the NAACP, Congressional Black Caucus and council of black churches remain silent on the issue of abortion. ( The Catholic Voice: Oakland right to life rally calls attention to ‘black genocide’)

2011- Rev.-Dr. Christopher A. Bullock, pastor/founder


23 million seems like a high number to me.

Author:  Lex Luthor [ Sun Mar 13, 2011 11:35 pm ]
Post subject: 

And yet the population of black people is increasing. You like to exagerrate terms, that's totally fine, but I just disagree that it is "genocide" in the same way the Armenian, Jewish, or Rwanda ones were. In those cases the net population decreased. I won't debate semantics anymore.

Author:  Rynar [ Sun Mar 13, 2011 11:37 pm ]
Post subject:  Re:

Lex Luthor wrote:
And yet the population of black people is increasing. You like to exagerrate terms, that's totally fine, but I just disagree that it is "genocide" in the same way the Armenian, Jewish, or Rwanda ones were. In those cases the net population decreased. I won't debate semantics anymore.


No, your definition doesn't have any legs to stand on, so you are running away from the conversation in hopes that no one will notice, and someone might blindly accept your definition without reason.

From Wiki, bolding mine:

Quote:
While a precise definition varies among genocide scholars, a legal definition is found in the 1948 United Nations Convention on the Prevention and Punishment of the Crime of Genocide (CPPCG). Article 2 of this convention defines genocide as "any of the following acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group, as such: killing members of the group; causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group; deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life, calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part; imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group; [and] forcibly transferring children of the group to another group."

Author:  Lex Luthor [ Sun Mar 13, 2011 11:38 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Abortion as a means of crime reduction

Good, you win, it's genocide. :roll: Just like my boss is going to "murder" me tomorrow if I don't update some stuff.

Author:  Rynar [ Sun Mar 13, 2011 11:43 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Abortion as a means of crime reduction

Lex Luthor wrote:
Good, you win, it's genocide. :roll: Just like my boss is going to "murder" me tomorrow if I don't update some stuff.


Read my edit. You are wrong, and you're being ridiculous.

Author:  TheRiov [ Sun Mar 13, 2011 11:50 pm ]
Post subject: 

Rynar, but you missed the one thing from your definition. The word "INTENT" --this is a consequence, not an intentional act

Author:  Rynar [ Sun Mar 13, 2011 11:52 pm ]
Post subject:  Re:

TheRiov wrote:
Rynar, but you missed the one thing from your definition. The word "INTENT" --this is a consequence, not an intentional act


What do you know about Margaret Sanger?

Author:  TheRiov [ Mon Mar 14, 2011 12:14 am ]
Post subject: 

Even if we grant that Sanger was a racist, it hardly follows that the practice of abortion is racist. The death penalty is not inherently racist either, though the demographics certainly indicate it is applied with far greater frequency against minorities. (I have my own issues with the death penalty, may be racist)

Author:  Rynar [ Mon Mar 14, 2011 12:19 am ]
Post subject:  Re:

TheRiov wrote:
Even if we grant that Sanger was a racist, it hardly follows that the practice of abortion is racist. The death penalty is not inherently racist either, though the demographics certainly indicate it is applied with far greater frequency against minorities. (I have my own issues with the death penalty, may be racist)


I largely agree with you about the death penalty. As Khross likes to say, "When you give the government the authority to kill it's own citizens, it will kill it's own citizens." And it does it with a purpose.

When it comes to abortion however, you are getting caught up in the politcis of it and looking past the reality of the intent. Planned Parenthood was funded as part of the stimulus package for Pete's sake.

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