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Holland set to debate banning of kosher slaughter
https://gladerebooted.net/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=5942		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  Stathol [ Fri Apr 08, 2011 5:03 pm ]
Post subject:  Holland set to debate banning of kosher slaughter
Well, shechita and halal if you want to get all technical about it. You get the idea.

AP via Canadian Press: Jewish, Muslim groups protest as Dutch debate banning ritual slaughter

Quote:
AMSTERDAM — One of Europe's first countries to allow Jews to practice their religion openly may soon pass a law banning centuries-old Jewish and Muslim traditions on the ritual slaughter of animals.
In the Netherlands, an unlikely alliance of an animal rights party and the xenophobic Freedom Party is spearheading support for the ban on kosher and halal slaughter methods that critics say inflict unacceptable suffering on animals.
The far right's embrace of the bill, which is expected to go to a parliamentary vote this month, is based mostly on its strident hostility toward the Dutch Muslim population. The Party for the Animals, the world's first such party to be elected to parliament, says humane treatment of animals trumps traditions of tolerance.

[...]
[more at link above]


This would probably be a good time to google captive bolt pistol.
Author:  Müs [ Fri Apr 08, 2011 5:08 pm ]
Post subject: 
So... No Kosher for Old Men?
Author:  Lex Luthor [ Fri Apr 08, 2011 5:46 pm ]
Post subject: 
Good. The way it's done is very inhumane to the animals.
Author:  Diamondeye [ Fri Apr 08, 2011 5:52 pm ]
Post subject: 
I was going to say something, but then I saw "bolt pistol" and started wondering at what point Space Marines started a kosher diet.
Author:  Rorinthas [ Fri Apr 08, 2011 5:59 pm ]
Post subject:  Holland set to debate banning of kosher slaughter
Sad. With European free trade I highly suspect the government will suffer the most though.

Also sadly they are not referring to a weapon of the Imperium DE. I would however like to point out that many officers of the guard also prefer the stopping power of the pistol bolter to their standard issue laser
Author:  Diamondeye [ Fri Apr 08, 2011 6:01 pm ]
Post subject: 
Darn. I suspected that, but I was hoping for the best.
Author:  Taskiss [ Fri Apr 08, 2011 7:46 pm ]
Post subject: 
Shechita is probably the most gentle and respectful way to slaughter an animal that I've ever seen.

The animal must be totally healthy and you can't kill it in front of others of it's kind, and the knife is so sharp and the cuts so precise, I don't think there's the animal experiences any pain or suffering at all.

It wouldn't work for industry, mass production is required just to satisfy the demands, but it was pretty interesting to learn about.

Then I went and cut my finger off, and my budding career as a meat cutter came to an end. It was better that way, really. I was a junior in high school and the workman's comp gave me enough to buy my first car.
Author:  Lex Luthor [ Fri Apr 08, 2011 7:51 pm ]
Post subject:  Re:
Taskiss wrote:
Shechita is probably the most gentle and respectful way to slaughter an animal that I've ever seen.

The animal must be totally healthy and you can't kill it in front of others of it's kind, and the knife is so sharp and the cuts so precise, I don't think there's the animal experiences any pain or suffering at all.

It wouldn't work for industry, mass production is required just to satisfy the demands, but it was pretty interesting to learn about.

Then I went and cut my finger off, and my budding career as a meat cutter came to an end. It was better that way, really. I was a junior in high school and the workman's comp gave me enough to buy my first car.


I believe that they hang them upside down until they bleed to death. Pretty brutal.
Author:  Müs [ Fri Apr 08, 2011 8:52 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Re:
Lex Luthor wrote:
Taskiss wrote:
Shechita is probably the most gentle and respectful way to slaughter an animal that I've ever seen.

The animal must be totally healthy and you can't kill it in front of others of it's kind, and the knife is so sharp and the cuts so precise, I don't think there's the animal experiences any pain or suffering at all.

It wouldn't work for industry, mass production is required just to satisfy the demands, but it was pretty interesting to learn about.

Then I went and cut my finger off, and my budding career as a meat cutter came to an end. It was better that way, really. I was a junior in high school and the workman's comp gave me enough to buy my first car.


I believe that they hang them upside down until they bleed to death. Pretty brutal.


There are worse ways. Especially since they're blunt force traumaed into unconsciousness first.

I suppose they could be chainsawed up while still alive a'la Scarface.
Author:  Lex Luthor [ Fri Apr 08, 2011 9:29 pm ]
Post subject: 
Well how would you feel if someone cut your throat and hung you upside down until you bled to death? This is what they're banning.
Author:  Corolinth [ Fri Apr 08, 2011 9:30 pm ]
Post subject: 
Well, traditional Kosher and Halal methods do not knock the animal out with blunt force trauma, first. That's the rub. The gun used to do that didn't exist when those religions were invented. Knocking the animal out is a good idea for reasons other than humane treatment of animals, though. A full grown steer is a powerful animal.

At any rate, this is hardly a religious issue. You have to get as much blood out of the animal as you can when you slaughter it for meat. Two of the methods mandated by the United States Department of Agriculture don't kill the animal before the exsanguination process, and a third (gunshot) doesn't always kill it.
Author:  Lex Luthor [ Fri Apr 08, 2011 9:36 pm ]
Post subject:  Re:
Corolinth wrote:
Well, traditional Kosher and Halal methods do not knock the animal out with blunt force trauma, first.


Exactly.
Author:  Corolinth [ Fri Apr 08, 2011 9:43 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Holland set to debate banning of kosher slaughter
Here's the thing about humane treatment of animals...

Have you ever met a cow face to face? Perhaps a chicken? They aren't people. They aren't even dogs or cats. Saying these animals are dumb does a great disservice to any human being with less than average intelligence. The sentiment that humans are "better than" other animals seems like the height of human arrogance until you actually deal with one of these animals. These aren't dolphins, apes, elephants, or other animals who we suspect might have a theory of mind.
Author:  Lex Luthor [ Fri Apr 08, 2011 9:45 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Holland set to debate banning of kosher slaughter
Corolinth wrote:
. These aren't dolphins, apes, elephants, or other animals who we suspect might have a theory of mind.


Pigs are in this group, yet are subject to this abuse.
Author:  darksiege [ Fri Apr 08, 2011 9:47 pm ]
Post subject: 
that is because bacon is tasty.

However, it is completely irrelevant to the discussion at hand... Pigs are never Kosher.
Author:  Lex Luthor [ Fri Apr 08, 2011 9:47 pm ]
Post subject:  Re:
darksiege wrote:
that is because bacon is tasty.

However, it is completely irrelevant to the discussion at hand... Pigs are never Kosher.


Ok, my bad. Just realized this.

edit:

Even so I agree they should be killed (because after all, God made things tasty so we can eat them), but just saying it should always be done humanely.
Author:  Rorinthas [ Fri Apr 08, 2011 9:59 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Re:
I eat meat. Yes that means animals die. As far as we know the experience of death isn't pleasant. I don't make any apologies for it. If you don't eat meat, I give you the courtesy of your choice. Please give me mine in exchange. If you are somewhere in between where you eat meat but you want to somehow wash your hands of process, you are entitled to your opinion, but it doesn't mean much to me.

As far as I am concerned we give farm animals a pretty good life in exchange for their deaths: food, shelter, medical care, mating assistance, protection from predators. Face it, they live a life that would cause even the most nanny state american politician to baulk. Their deaths (even the kosher ones) are far better than the ones they would get in the wild at the hands of coyotes, disease, starvation, or old age. Game animals get a shorter end of the stick admittedly, but we kill far less of them and we keep tabs on their numbers so more don't die slowly of starvation. Yeah we shouldn't be torturing them for fun or poaching deer and tearing out the back straps and leaving the rest to rot.
Author:  darksiege [ Fri Apr 08, 2011 11:26 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Re:
Lex Luthor wrote:
Ok, my bad. Just realized this.

edit:

Even so I agree they should be killed (because after all, God made things tasty so we can eat them), but just saying it should always be done humanely.


:twisted:
I refuse to wait until animals die of natural causes to eat them.

and because it is pertinent to this particular portion of the discussion...
Author:  Lex Luthor [ Fri Apr 08, 2011 11:45 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Holland set to debate banning of kosher slaughter
I had to skip through an old Futurama episode to find this:

Quote:
Leela: Look, I'm not saying eating meat is wrong. I don't think anyone's here to make that claim. But eating an intelligent animal is different.

Joe: Oh, don't force your tired philosophy on us. I mean, the only reason we don't eat people is because they taste lousy.
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