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Free Obama care
https://gladerebooted.net/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=6566
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Author:  Uncle Fester [ Tue Jun 21, 2011 3:57 pm ]
Post subject:  Free Obama care

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20110621/ap_ ... aul_glitch

Quote:
WASHINGTON – President Barack Obama's health care law would let several million middle-class people get nearly free insurance meant for the poor, a twist government number crunchers say they discovered only after the complex bill was signed.

The change would affect early retirees: A married couple could have an annual income of about $64,000 and still get Medicaid, said officials who make long-range cost estimates for the Health and Human Services department.

Up to 3 million more people could qualify for Medicaid in 2014 as a result of the anomaly. That's because, in a major change from today, most of their Social Security benefits would no longer be counted as income for determining eligibility. It might be compared to allowing middle-class people to qualify for food stamps.


Quote:
Indeed, administration officials and senior Democratic lawmakers say it's not a loophole but the result of a well-meaning effort to simplify rules for deciding who will get help with insurance costs under the new health care law. Instead of a hodgepodge of rules, there will be one national policy


Get on the Government gravy train! :)

Author:  Nitefox [ Tue Jun 21, 2011 3:58 pm ]
Post subject: 

We have to pass it so we can find out what's in it!

Author:  darksiege [ Tue Jun 21, 2011 6:53 pm ]
Post subject: 

stupid **** each and everyone in the government with a D, R, I, G, T or any other affiliation after their name.

Author:  Micheal [ Wed Jun 22, 2011 12:36 am ]
Post subject: 

Somebody give Darkseige an AirBus loaded with fertilizer and directions to the Capitol.

Author:  Lex Luthor [ Wed Jun 22, 2011 12:43 am ]
Post subject: 

Everyone should have free healthcare IMO, so it's not a bad thing.

Author:  Midgen [ Wed Jun 22, 2011 1:10 am ]
Post subject: 

By 'Free', you mean everyone should be entitled to health care paid for by those of us paying taxes?

Author:  Lex Luthor [ Wed Jun 22, 2011 1:12 am ]
Post subject:  Re:

Midgen wrote:
By 'Free', you mean everyone should be entitled to health care paid for by those of us paying taxes?


Yes, this.

Author:  Rorinthas [ Wed Jun 22, 2011 11:36 am ]
Post subject: 

How do we afford it? How do we pay for it? Healthcare for everyone sounds like a great and compassionate idea. I just don't see how to make it work legally and equitably.

Author:  Lex Luthor [ Wed Jun 22, 2011 11:43 am ]
Post subject:  Re:

Rorinthas wrote:
How do we afford it? How do we pay for it? Healthcare for everyone sounds like a great and compassionate idea. I just don't see how to make it work legally and equitably.


England manages it pretty well, and Canada I believe. It works out great there. It's a more efficient system and people get more checkups, which makes them healthier.

Author:  Taskiss [ Wed Jun 22, 2011 11:57 am ]
Post subject: 

Taking from the rich to give to the poor has a more established tradition in England than here.

Author:  Diamondeye [ Wed Jun 22, 2011 12:01 pm ]
Post subject: 

I'ts not exactly "working out" in either country - they have higher tax rates. Canada has a small population, and is able to rely on the U.S. for defense because of its location.

Britain also relies on us, but in their case, endlessly cuts defense to pay for social programs. Eventually there will be none left to cut and they will no longer be able to afford this nonsense.

Author:  Shelgeyr [ Wed Jun 22, 2011 12:02 pm ]
Post subject:  Re:

Rorinthas wrote:
How do we afford it? How do we pay for it? Healthcare for everyone sounds like a great and compassionate idea. I just don't see how to make it work legally and equitably.
In some European nations, taxes amount to somewhere between 40-55% of each citizen's wages. It's steep, but they've been managing to make it work for them for quite some time now. I imagine never having to face doctor's bills helps.

Author:  Squirrel Girl [ Wed Jun 22, 2011 12:13 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Re:

Lex Luthor wrote:
Midgen wrote:
By 'Free', you mean everyone should be entitled to health care paid for by those of us paying taxes?


Yes, this.



Go die in a fire idiot.

Author:  Rorinthas [ Wed Jun 22, 2011 12:16 pm ]
Post subject: 

Well we can't afford what we are paying for now, let alone future programs. I can't afford to give up 40-50% of my income, so it'd be wrong of me to ask anyone else to do it either.

Author:  Talya [ Wed Jun 22, 2011 12:18 pm ]
Post subject:  Re:

Rorinthas wrote:
Well we can't afford what we are paying for now, let alone future programs.


Technically, you could cut your federal government spending on healthcare and give universal coverage equal to Canada's...but you seem to have some efficiency issues. Canada's universal health care costs about 50% less per capita than America currently pays for its medicare system alone...which, considering the level of healthcare service canadians get is comparable to what Americans with top-end coverage get (with some caveats...the Canadian system actually has better results in some areas, and a few issues in others...but overall they are comparable), is really astounding. How the **** does Medicare --which doesn't seem to do much of anything-- cost you that much?

Author:  Lex Luthor [ Wed Jun 22, 2011 12:21 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Re:

Squirrel Girl wrote:
Lex Luthor wrote:
Midgen wrote:
By 'Free', you mean everyone should be entitled to health care paid for by those of us paying taxes?


Yes, this.



Go die in a fire idiot.


Very constructive. :roll:

Author:  Lex Luthor [ Wed Jun 22, 2011 12:22 pm ]
Post subject:  Re:

Diamondeye wrote:
I'ts not exactly "working out" in either country - they have higher tax rates. Canada has a small population, and is able to rely on the U.S. for defense because of its location.

Britain also relies on us, but in their case, endlessly cuts defense to pay for social programs. Eventually there will be none left to cut and they will no longer be able to afford this nonsense.


What has the U.S. military defended us from, historically speaking? Seems like almost nothing to me.

Author:  Diamondeye [ Wed Jun 22, 2011 12:24 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Re:

Shelgeyr wrote:
Rorinthas wrote:
How do we afford it? How do we pay for it? Healthcare for everyone sounds like a great and compassionate idea. I just don't see how to make it work legally and equitably.
In some European nations, taxes amount to somewhere between 40-55% of each citizen's wages. It's steep, but they've been managing to make it work for them for quite some time now. I imagine never having to face doctor's bills helps.


That runs into the problem of "legally and equitably". Obviously it's legal in European nations but making it legal here would come into conflict with a general aversion to such high tax rates. Part of that problem here is willingness to make "the rich" (usually, anyone making more than a marginally greater amount of money than the speaker) pay "their fair share" (an undefined but arbitrarily high portion of their holdings and income that is based on the idea that they're paying their fair share when there are no more social ills).

That leads into the "equitable" problem - the so-called "fair share" usually isn't; primarily because we always hear about this "fair share" that "the rich" supposedly aren't paying - but myseteriously it's never said what would be a fair share, or how it's even known they aren't already paying it. "Equitable" is not defined as "anyone can get whatever health care they need, regardless of cost in any other area".

Then, there is the problem that we cannot afford to rape our military power because we don't have an ally with a large population, large economy, and large land area to rely upon like these nations do. Whining about how we supposedly don't need the defense establishment we have is shortsighted - we need to make changes to it, sure, but aside from strategic defense of the nation itself, we rely on foriegn trade, energy, and raw materials. If anyone else gains the ability to strangle us in any of those areas, there goes the economy (i.e. moreso than it already is) and the tax income that this healthcare would rely on, not to mention other areas of life.

We could save money in that regard by increasing efficiency in defense and eliminating long-term interventionism as a policy in favor of short-term destruction of threats, but that carries some political costs that the public and our politicians are likely not to want to bear.

Even if we ignored this problem, and cut military and security expendiatures to pay for healthcare or any other social good, and no one took advantage of this, it still would not work. Eventually, we would simply run out of military to cut, but we would doubtless still be hearing calls for more money because social do-gooders are never satisfied. There is always another wrong to be righted.

Author:  Diamondeye [ Wed Jun 22, 2011 12:26 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Re:

Talya wrote:
Rorinthas wrote:
Well we can't afford what we are paying for now, let alone future programs.


Technically, you could cut your federal government spending on healthcare and give universal coverage equal to Canada's...but you seem to have some efficiency issues. Canada's universal health care costs about 50% less per capita than America currently pays for its medicare system alone...which, considering the level of healthcare service canadians get is comparable to what Americans with top-end coverage get (with some caveats...the Canadian system actually has better results in some areas, and a few issues in others...but overall they are comparable), is really astounding. How the **** does Medicare --which doesn't seem to do much of anything-- cost you that much?


There's no real difference in level of service between top-end and lower coverage. There's a difference in how much it costs you, and where the limits of the coverage are, but Canadian care is comparable to American care - not "top end" care; there is no such thing.

Author:  Lex Luthor [ Wed Jun 22, 2011 12:27 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Re:

Diamondeye wrote:
Even if we ignored this problem, and cut military and security expendiatures to pay for healthcare or any other social good, and no one took advantage of this, it still would not work. Eventually, we would simply run out of military to cut, but we would doubtless still be hearing calls for more money because social do-gooders are never satisfied. There is always another wrong to be righted.


I don't think it's a "wrong to be righted", but rather I think national healthcare is a much better and efficient system. It would obviously work because it does fine in other countries.

Also I don't care about how much money the wealthy/middle class/poor think they own, if they weren't in society they would only have sticks and stones.

Author:  Diamondeye [ Wed Jun 22, 2011 12:30 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Re:

Lex Luthor wrote:
Diamondeye wrote:
I'ts not exactly "working out" in either country - they have higher tax rates. Canada has a small population, and is able to rely on the U.S. for defense because of its location.

Britain also relies on us, but in their case, endlessly cuts defense to pay for social programs. Eventually there will be none left to cut and they will no longer be able to afford this nonsense.


What has the U.S. military defended us from, historically speaking? Seems like almost nothing to me.


Then stop focusing on actual invasion of our territory. You might get a clue then.

Author:  Lex Luthor [ Wed Jun 22, 2011 12:30 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Re:

Diamondeye wrote:
Lex Luthor wrote:
Diamondeye wrote:
I'ts not exactly "working out" in either country - they have higher tax rates. Canada has a small population, and is able to rely on the U.S. for defense because of its location.

Britain also relies on us, but in their case, endlessly cuts defense to pay for social programs. Eventually there will be none left to cut and they will no longer be able to afford this nonsense.


What has the U.S. military defended us from, historically speaking? Seems like almost nothing to me.


Then stop focusing on actual invasion of our territory. You might get a clue then.


That's offense then.

Author:  Raltar [ Wed Jun 22, 2011 12:34 pm ]
Post subject: 

People think twice before attacking us because they know that they will likely be crushed. That is a form of defense because it results in less attacks.

Author:  Lex Luthor [ Wed Jun 22, 2011 12:46 pm ]
Post subject:  Re:

Raltar wrote:
People think twice before attacking us because they know that they will likely be crushed. That is a form of defense because it results in less attacks.


How are they going to get to us? There is some water and miles between. Also, we have friendly and stable relations with every country with a substantial navy.

Any country who causes actual damage against us will launch the entire world into a massive economic depression. Whatever they hope to gain is probably not worth it.

Author:  Diamondeye [ Wed Jun 22, 2011 12:49 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Re:

Lex Luthor wrote:
Diamondeye wrote:
Then stop focusing on actual invasion of our territory. You might get a clue then.


That's offense then.


Tactically and operationally, yes, it is the offense. Strategically, however, it is defensive, with certain exceptions such as the Mexican American war which was unquestionably a war of conquest.

All that internet and technology you like to wank your little penis so hard to? It's supported by rare elements and resources we have to import. So are our energy needs.

Then of course, there's deterrence. We happily live in a place where actual invasion would not be easy - for the continental U.S., but Alaska and Hawaii could be targets, and being states, cannot be arbitrarily ignored because its inconvenient. We also have nuclear deterrence to worry about. Russia and China are certainly not trustworthy to not engage in nuclear blackmail without our own deterrent and defensive systems.

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