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| Elm is posting again about "Peace Officers" https://gladerebooted.net/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=6624 |
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| Author: | Elmarnieh [ Thu Jun 30, 2011 12:56 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Elm is posting again about "Peace Officers" |
http://www.courthousenews.com/2011/06/29/37770.htm Summary: Police taser and beat mentally challenged juvenile because they took his speech impediment as an insult. |
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| Author: | Diamondeye [ Thu Jun 30, 2011 12:59 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Elm is posting again about "Peace Officers" |
Summary: According to the kid's mother, who is therefor suing over the allegations. |
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| Author: | Elmarnieh [ Thu Jun 30, 2011 12:59 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
And neighborhood witnesses. |
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| Author: | Lenas [ Thu Jun 30, 2011 1:02 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Elm is posting again about "Peace Officers" |
Diamondeye wrote: Summary: According to the kid's mother, who is therefor suing over the allegations. Anyone surprised? |
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| Author: | Diamondeye [ Thu Jun 30, 2011 1:07 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Elm is posting again about "Peace Officers" |
Lenas wrote: Diamondeye wrote: Summary: According to the kid's mother, who is therefor suing over the allegations. Anyone surprised? About what? |
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| Author: | Taskiss [ Thu Jun 30, 2011 1:09 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Elm is posting again about "Peace Officers" |
Diamondeye wrote: Lenas wrote: Diamondeye wrote: Summary: According to the kid's mother, who is therefor suing over the allegations. Anyone surprised? About what? That the muppet is posting about what he considers out-of-control cops? |
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| Author: | Hannibal [ Thu Jun 30, 2011 1:11 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
It'll get settled out of court and therefore wont be recorded as a statistic. |
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| Author: | Corolinth [ Thu Jun 30, 2011 2:06 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
Those statistics aren't recorded anyway. http://bluemustbetrue.com/2008/12/06/how-many-people-are-shot-by-police-in-the-us-annually.aspx |
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| Author: | Foamy [ Thu Jun 30, 2011 2:59 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
Elmo: Honest question. What would you suggest be done? You continue posting these incidents where the police do something such as this and are likely out of line. I would honestly like to know what it is you would suggest or what your ideal scenario would be to correct this ongoing problem. |
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| Author: | Elmarnieh [ Thu Jun 30, 2011 3:11 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
Throwing out Qualified Immunity would help. Returning to being actual Peace Officers would help a lot more. Having the officers being personally civilly liable in addition to the township or municipality would also help. |
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| Author: | Wwen [ Thu Jun 30, 2011 4:08 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
Then make the thread about that and not individual instances that may or may not be a problem depending on the truth of what happened. IMO, just concentrate on what the thread is really about leave out the random incidents. Clearly, you're getting at something else. Just go for that argument. YMMV. |
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| Author: | Rorinthas [ Thu Jun 30, 2011 4:40 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Elm is posting again about "Peace Officers" |
We need less frivolous lawsuits not more. Allowing Joe Leo to be sued will only create more lawsuits without some kind if loser pay reform. We are currently having problems with our local NAACP president and the police. I can't imagine how much worse the situation would be if he could threaten to sue cops directly. Likely no one would stand up to his BS |
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| Author: | Timmit [ Thu Jun 30, 2011 6:15 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
If cops could be sued directly we wouldn't have any cops. |
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| Author: | Xequecal [ Thu Jun 30, 2011 10:13 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Elm is posting again about "Peace Officers" |
Timmit wrote: If cops could be sued directly we wouldn't have any cops. I think that's the point. |
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| Author: | Wwen [ Thu Jun 30, 2011 10:52 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
We need more Andy Griffith and Less Barney. |
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| Author: | Corolinth [ Thu Jun 30, 2011 11:02 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
Yes, if cops could be sued directly, we would have no more cops. Let's face it, that statement is more damning of the police than it is of the lawsuit-happy civilians. |
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| Author: | Talya [ Thu Jun 30, 2011 11:29 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: |
Corolinth wrote: Yes, if cops could be sued directly, we would have no more cops. Let's face it, that statement is more damning of the police than it is of the lawsuit-happy civilians. Not really true. It's damning of human beings. Whether the power given to a police officer corrupts, or merely draws in the already corrupt, the fact is, without the badge, they could instead be one of those "lawsuit-happy civilians." As King Solomon supposedly once stated, "Man rules over man only to his injury." The problem isn't with those in the police, or those in government, or those with power. The problem is inherent to giving human beings power over their fellows. As a species, we are natural tyrants. |
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| Author: | Raltar [ Fri Jul 01, 2011 12:55 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: |
Corolinth wrote: Yes, if cops could be sued directly, we would have no more cops. Let's face it, that statement is more damning of the police than it is of the lawsuit-happy civilians. I wouldn't say that. Police wouldn't be police anymore because of the chance that they would be convicted when they did nothing wrong because people are **** morons and would convict thinking the more police that get convicted increases their chances of winning a bogus lawsuit against the police. |
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| Author: | Hannibal [ Fri Jul 01, 2011 6:29 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Elm is posting again about "Peace Officers" |
There is just going to be more and more of these incidents as time goes on. People aren't taught the same values that this system was assuming the cadets held. So we will have more spoiled entitlement babies slipping into these authority positions. Lacking the internal morality to police themselves and freed from the imposed morality of being under another authority, I think we will see incidents of this rise. In this incident hindsight is always 20/20. In the moment... well lawyers get years to debate a decision that an officer makes in that fraction of a second. I don't think cops are bad, I just think that they are pulling from an increasingly shallow well of good candidates, and end up hiring the best out of who applied. So if the entire class is ego centric authoritarian knuckle staggers, and my township hires the top of that class, well we still got a crap cop, just the least crap out of the bunch. |
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| Author: | Talya [ Fri Jul 01, 2011 6:44 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Elm is posting again about "Peace Officers" |
Hannibal wrote: There is just going to be more and more of these incidents as time goes on. People aren't taught the same values that this system was assuming the cadets held. In my day, we had to walk through three miles, in the snow uphill (both ways!) ... This is bullshit. It's not getting worse. It's been like this for all of human history. Society is disintegrating, values are not deteriorating. The world is not going to ****...it has always been ****. |
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| Author: | Hannibal [ Fri Jul 01, 2011 7:06 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Elm is posting again about "Peace Officers" |
Talya wrote: Hannibal wrote: There is just going to be more and more of these incidents as time goes on. People aren't taught the same values that this system was assuming the cadets held. In my day, we had to walk through three miles, in the snow uphill (both ways!) ... This is bullshit. It's not getting worse. It's been like this for all of human history. Society is disintegrating, values are not deteriorating. The world is not going to ****...it has always been ****. Your own posted experiences contradict this view. You're raising your kids with one set of values, your neighbors are not. When the two clash, you've regaled us with the result. Now put your neighbors and their difference in beliefs in a position of power over you. Guess the result. |
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| Author: | Talya [ Fri Jul 01, 2011 7:35 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Elm is posting again about "Peace Officers" |
Hannibal wrote: Your own posted experiences contradict this view. You're raising your kids with one set of values, your neighbors are not. When the two clash, you've regaled us with the result. Now put your neighbors and their difference in beliefs in a position of power over you. Guess the result. I'm not entirely sure what this is referring to...I've got no issues with my neighbors. |
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| Author: | Taskiss [ Fri Jul 01, 2011 8:15 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Elm is posting again about "Peace Officers" |
Talya wrote: It's not getting worse. It's been like this for all of human history. With an increase in population though, there's more of it. |
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| Author: | Rorinthas [ Fri Jul 01, 2011 10:57 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: |
Corolinth wrote: Yes, if cops could be sued directly, we would have no more cops. Let's face it, that statement is more damning of the police than it is of the lawsuit-happy civilians. Imagine if every student that got you tutored/taught that got a B- in class threatened to sue you. What if some of them actually went through with it. You'd find yourself constantly in court defending every decision you made and technique you used. Lets not even get into what happens if one of them gets a sympathetic jury that dislikes math tutors. Would it affect your desire in your profession? Maybe not the first time, but I think It'd get old awful fast. I know it would applied to my situation. |
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| Author: | Rorinthas [ Fri Jul 01, 2011 11:27 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Elm is posting again about "Peace Officers" |
I know i'm passionate about this, but I've seen the worst misplacement of cop hate in my city. I have a friend, a retired PD officer. When he was on duty, he saw his partner shot in the head and die right in front of him. He was next, and exchanged fire with this woman getting shot himself and taking the life with the woman. Despite these very obvious in the right circumstances many in the community still consider my friend a racist, power hungry pig and still threaten that he's gonna get what's coming to him someday. I can't imagine why it would be a good thing for someone whose gone through all of that to endure a personal lawsuit on top of it. I could also get into the Tareka Wilson/Joe Chavalia debacle if you're interested (maybe some of you folks have heard of it), but the story is largely the same. Wilson wasn't armed, but Chavalia didn't know that. Taly's right that there is "nothing new under the sun" when it comes to authoritative abuse, lack of respect for authority. However I'm concerned that we're raising a generation that largely buys into this "all cops are pigs" BS, acts appropriately and feeds the cycle. |
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