The Glade 4.0 :: View topic - There is a much bigger lesson here...

The problems come around when someone has to decide whats an emergency and whats not. obviously in cases like these, simple (i'd like to hope) logic could determine the status of the situation but not all situations are always cut and clear.

We had a similar incident recently where calls were received from within one of our big mountains. The boy dragged behind and got lost while camping with his class. The 911 dispatcher who took the call thought it was a hoax. The same boy called 911 3 times (during one time was put on hold for longer than 30 minutes) before his batteries died. By the time the teacher realised he wasn't going to catch up and contacted authorities (24 hours later), the boy was so lost that they couldn't find him. (He passed away unfortunately and the dispatchers were charged with willful neglect)

I say simply have an requirement to have your details registered to the device and for obviously simple stupid logically absurd button pressing like this, charge them the full amount.

Alternatively have those button self destruct upon pressing so they actually consider it before pressing. :twisted:

Author:	Ladas [ Wed Oct 28, 2009 3:08 pm ]
Post subject:	There is a much bigger lesson here...
I wonder if it will be recognized... 911

Author:	Aizle [ Wed Oct 28, 2009 3:09 pm ]
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When Natural Selection fails...

Author:	LadyKate [ Wed Oct 28, 2009 4:05 pm ]
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I think they should treat those things just like a normal 911 call and heavily fine/jail people who use them for non-life threatening emergencies. The fact that they came out TWICE and actually left them water seems to show stupidity on the rescue side as well. If I was a rescuer and went out because someone activated their beacon, they would be coming back with me whether they liked it or not.

Author:	Jasmy [ Wed Oct 28, 2009 4:17 pm ]
Post subject:	Re:
LadyKate wrote: I think they should treat those things just like a normal 911 call and heavily fine/jail people who use them for non-life threatening emergencies. The fact that they came out TWICE and actually left them water seems to show stupidity on the rescue side as well. If I was a rescuer and went out because someone activated their beacon, they would be coming back with me whether they liked it or not. This! 100%!

Author:	Lydiaa [ Wed Oct 28, 2009 5:20 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: There is a much bigger lesson here...
The problems come around when someone has to decide whats an emergency and whats not. obviously in cases like these, simple (i'd like to hope) logic could determine the status of the situation but not all situations are always cut and clear. We had a similar incident recently where calls were received from within one of our big mountains. The boy dragged behind and got lost while camping with his class. The 911 dispatcher who took the call thought it was a hoax. The same boy called 911 3 times (during one time was put on hold for longer than 30 minutes) before his batteries died. By the time the teacher realised he wasn't going to catch up and contacted authorities (24 hours later), the boy was so lost that they couldn't find him. (He passed away unfortunately and the dispatchers were charged with willful neglect) I say simply have an requirement to have your details registered to the device and for obviously simple stupid logically absurd button pressing like this, charge them the full amount. Alternatively have those button self destruct upon pressing so they actually consider it before pressing.

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Author:	Leshani [ Wed Oct 28, 2009 5:43 pm ]
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amateurs getting in trouble in the wilderness, has been an every increasing problem, the more society encroaches in to these areas, the easier people think it is to explore or hike. In Arizona where you go from open desert to treacherous mountains, and canyons with just a short time, it's something we deal with on a regular basis. Inside the Phoenix city limits there are 2 popular hiking trails that commonly make the news for rescues, Squaw Peak, and Camelback mountain. At Squaw peak the most common occurrence is the out of condition people or poor planners that think it's an easy hike, They either think it will only take them a couple hours to do, or they try to do it with just one small water bottle. Camelback mountain is just flat out cursed with inexperienced people try to get to the top, you need good shoes, water and be able to climb. and those are the public maintained parks. Once in to the wilderness your in a whole new game. Trails aren't as nicely laid out, no guards rails around the cliff edges and the adubant wildlife(some not so friendly), and the inexperienced just love to venture in to these areas and get in trouble. These 911 devices can be a bane or a boon depending on their use, and false and frivolous triggering should be dealt with harshly, criminal charges, and mobilization costs. These penalties should be very clearly labeled on the device, and the triggering should require a 2 step process. Granted they're still denying Darwin his tribute. Since I'm what a great many people would call an outdoors man, I've never had a need for one of these. Yes, I do own one, at my wife's insistence for when I'm solo =hunting(very rare). I have a friend who is avid wilderness hiker and writer (Shameless Plug) and one these saved his but when he went down an unexpected ravine.

Author:	Aegnor [ Wed Oct 28, 2009 6:28 pm ]
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I've climbed Camelback before. There are places on that trail that have a fairly steep incline. It was a good view at the top though.

Author:	Midgen [ Wed Oct 28, 2009 7:16 pm ]
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They should do like Alaska does and send people a bill for the cost of the rescues. Also, none of this 'declined help' bullshit. If a helicopter is sent out, it goes only once and removes the 'victim' from the area.

Author:	Colphax [ Wed Oct 28, 2009 8:00 pm ]
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Gotta scratch my head at the guy in the story who activated his rescue beacon because he was getting dehydrated while panning for gold. How the hell does that happen in an activity that generally involves copious amounts of water?

Author:	LadyKate [ Thu Oct 29, 2009 6:42 am ]
Post subject:	Re: There is a much bigger lesson here...
Lydiaa wrote: The problems come around when someone has to decide whats an emergency and whats not. obviously in cases like these, simple (i'd like to hope) logic could determine the status of the situation but not all situations are always cut and clear. We had a similar incident recently where calls were received from within one of our big mountains. The boy dragged behind and got lost while camping with his class. The 911 dispatcher who took the call thought it was a hoax. The same boy called 911 3 times (during one time was put on hold for longer than 30 minutes) before his batteries died. By the time the teacher realised he wasn't going to catch up and contacted authorities (24 hours later), the boy was so lost that they couldn't find him. (He passed away unfortunately and the dispatchers were charged with willful neglect) I say simply have an requirement to have your details registered to the device and for obviously simple stupid logically absurd button pressing like this, charge them the full amount. Alternatively have those button self destruct upon pressing so they actually consider it before pressing. So we can get a helicopter to come out 3 times for some stupid BS like "i'm thirsty bring me some water oh wait nevermind I found some" but let a little boy die because when kids call 911 it must be a prank so the kid dies? I'm with Midge....every call send a chopper out and they come back whether they like it or not. And billing people for rescues is a good idea. I don't think anyone would/should complain. You pay for health care, right? You should pay for being rescued, since, after all chances are pretty good that you put yourself in that situation to begin with. You had a choice, you took the risk, you pay for it. Poor little boy. What an awful way to die. Scared and alone in the wilderness...after repeatedly calling for help. Thats awful.

Author:	Raziel6K [ Thu Oct 29, 2009 5:06 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: There is a much bigger lesson here...
I would concur with the sentiments of others. These sort of perceived emergencies shouldn't fall on the taxpayer's dime through rescue programs, it should fall on the individual. On another note, what the hell are these damned yuppies doing in the woods anyways?

Author:	Leshani [ Thu Oct 29, 2009 5:26 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: There is a much bigger lesson here...
Raziel6K wrote: On another note, what the hell are these damned yuppies doing in the woods anyways? Generally getting themselves lost or in trouble. I can't count the number of times I've encountered people who have no clue about where they're Hiking, riding or 4 wheeling (they usually have know idea as to what laws they've broken either) when I've been out hunting. Seriously are you going to go off trail hiking during deer or elk season in an area with upwards of 300 hunters of varying skill, then there the wise ones that think its fun to chase animals in rut season with their atvs, generally doesn't end well. I got a guys pilots licensed pulled for Interfering with the hunt, he was chasing the elk in Helicopter during hunt seasons.

Author:	Lydiaa [ Thu Oct 29, 2009 5:41 pm ]
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Everytime you think you have idiot proofed something, god simply makes a bigger idiot.

Author:	Jasmy [ Thu Oct 29, 2009 10:09 pm ]
Post subject:	Re:
Lydiaa wrote: Everytime you think you have idiot proofed something, god simply makes a bigger idiot. So very **** true!!

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Author:	Kairtane [ Thu Oct 29, 2009 11:19 pm ]
Post subject:	Re:
Lydiaa wrote: Everytime you think you have idiot proofed something, god simply makes a bigger idiot. I heaard it this way, "You can make it idiot proof. You can't make it **** idiot proof."