The Glade 4.0

Is it possible to have another candid conversation about forum rules?

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It feels like all the people who want limited government really just want government limited to Republicans.
---The Daily Show

What about them?

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“The duty of a patriot is to protect his country from its government.” - Thomas Paine

Will your text remain this color throughout the thread? Because I would prefer to not start a conversation that suddenly ends with a ding for "armchair moderating" or some such. I want to be open and honest about my concerns, but I'm afraid that we're not allowed to be.

I think the current set up is really pissing people off, for a number of reasons, me included. I don't feel like the community has a good grasp on what does and does not constitute a violation of the rules, despite how clear the rules seem to be as written, and the ban on actually *talking* about moderation makes everything happen below the table. That increases suspicion and creates bad blood.

To be clear - I want to be certain that if a conversation is had, people can feel free to express their frustrations without fear of being sanctioned for doing so. If that's not possible, so be it. I'll delete this thread.

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It feels like all the people who want limited government really just want government limited to Republicans.
---The Daily Show

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“The duty of a patriot is to protect his country from its government.” - Thomas Paine

-edit clearly this was a mistake, DFK.

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It feels like all the people who want limited government really just want government limited to Republicans.
---The Daily Show

Edit - I'm angry, so this is not going to go anywhere.

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It feels like all the people who want limited government really just want government limited to Republicans.
---The Daily Show

Would you care for me to lock the thread?

I'd be happy to since you've acknowledged your mistake. An apology for your edited-out slight on my ethics would be nice, but I don't expect it.

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“The duty of a patriot is to protect his country from its government.” - Thomas Paine

What do you expect? I feel cornered by your red pen, and I feel I can't respond honestly. I want to have an honest, public discussion of the rules and their enforcement. It's clear that's not possible. I wish you would have responded with your red pen initially so we didn't have to go through this.

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It feels like all the people who want limited government really just want government limited to Republicans.
---The Daily Show

I will add that I feel moderation has been more on the heavy, hands on side than I would personally like to see, but it isn't bothering me all that much as of now. I think the issues I have seen are twofold:

First, it seems that the 'vigilante moderation' rule might be one I would personally tone down a bit. It seems similar to trolling in that it is hard to separate someone trying to be a vigilante from someone pointing out that they think another's behavior is not acceptable. Not all conversations about what behavior is acceptable need moderation, and while having moderation on the forums is nice, it is also a good idea to let people try to work things out on their own, first- in some instances the 'vigilante moderation' rule seems to eliminate that chance.

Second, I might suggest trying to warn posters via PM at first, as it will do less to disrupt the course of the thread than a blaring red post that draws attention/de-rails the topic.

It would be nice to have the ban/suspension list include WHY the person was banned/suspended, however- since we're on the subject.

Just a few thoughts.

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Darksiege: You are not a god damned vulcan homie.

I totally agree with you here. The Vigilante Moderation rule is way too heavy handed. I'd love to just tell Darksiege "Hey, I think it was disrespectful of you to call me Sparky instead of showing me the respect of using my board name", but I'm terrified that I'll be suspended for even that.

My biggest concern is this paragraph in the Flame section -




I just don't feel it's being fairly enforced. DFK may call that an attack on his ethics, and there isn't anything I can do to change his interpretation of my concern. However, his objection or outrage does not change how I feel.

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It feels like all the people who want limited government really just want government limited to Republicans.
---The Daily Show

The attacks on my ethics involve you stating or implying that I'm applying the rules differently to you than I do to the other posters.

As to the "red pen," the timing is as follows:

1) You made a thread creating a conversation about the rules.
2) You did not request that moderators participate solely from that perspective.
3) I entered the thread from the perspective of a poster.
4) You implied that my dealings with you as a moderator have been less than straightforward.
5) Since, as a moderator, I have requested you not slight my ethics, I responded as a moderator.
6) Since there was confusion about some sort of "ban" on discussing moderation, I answered that as a moderator.
7) You insulted my ethics, blatantly
8) I restrained myself from coming down on that, because I felt that my bias might have made it seem like a bigger slight than it was. Instead, I made a private post to the other moderators asking them to review the situation.
9) You edited out your insult.
10) I asked if you wanted the thread closed, as a moderator, because I wanted to know if that's what you meant by "this was a mistake."
11) I asked for an apology, which is not required and I don't expect.
12) You have since made multiple additional implications as to my ethics, including whether I am arbitrary with you when it comes to viewing things from a moderators perspective.
14) I made this post.

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“The duty of a patriot is to protect his country from its government.” - Thomas Paine

Personally I think that's the most subjective area of the rules, applying it is therefore difficult, I'd say.

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“The duty of a patriot is to protect his country from its government.” - Thomas Paine

This is exactly what I was afraid of. Sigh. Sorry to bother everyone.

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It feels like all the people who want limited government really just want government limited to Republicans.
---The Daily Show