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| Emergency Services Vehicles https://gladerebooted.net/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=72 |
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| Author: | Rafael [ Tue Sep 08, 2009 11:44 am ] |
| Post subject: | Emergency Services Vehicles |
Just a question about how much priority do vehicles have in saving someone's life. How much does/should traffic yield? This question is generic in context, meaning the vehicle(s) may be traversing one block at 1 a.m. in Suburbsville or Smalltown where it encounters no cars, or it may be trying to get through downtown Manhattan in gridlocked traffic where it requires hundreds or maybe thousands of commuters and other traffic to yield. |
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| Author: | Rorinthas [ Tue Sep 08, 2009 2:56 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Emergency Services Vehicles |
I'm not sure I understand your question. If you're driving and you hear the sirens you should be cautious and keep your eyes open for where the vehicle is. Legally All traffic allong the route should yeild even when they have the green light, and all traffic on the same roadway within view of the ESV should stop and pull over to right. It sounds like a no brainer to me. |
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| Author: | Ladas [ Tue Sep 08, 2009 3:39 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
The only issue I have ever seen with response vehicles was just recently actually... I-26 had a nasty wreck just east of Columbia and had end of holiday traffic backed up for miles (not this last holiday). The responding HP and FD units all used the extra wide shoulder, typical of interstates, to get to the accident. For some reason, the ambulance decided the best path of travel was right up the middle of the 2 lanes going that direction, so cars in both lanes had to move to the edges, which then forced the cars on the right to move back to the middle to clear for the next FD or HP unit. Made absolutely no sense, and because of the confusion by the drivers of where to move, cost that Ambulance a lot of time. |
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| Author: | Micheal [ Tue Sep 08, 2009 4:14 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
. . . What Rori said, them's the rules. |
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| Author: | Stathol [ Tue Sep 08, 2009 5:12 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
It's not totally a no-brainer. Can ambulances exceed the speed limit? In most places, yes. But by how much should they be allowed to exceed it? Can/should an ambulance be going 70 in a 30mph zone? I think most people would say no to that hypothetical. They get special dispensation because they're trying to save lives and/or property, but that dispensation shouldn't extend to risking other lives and property in the process. Witness the debate around high speed police chases, for instance. But I've also seen this issue play out in less obvious ways. I was at an intersection with very bad sight lines (cross-traffic would not be able to see an approaching emergency vehicle until it was just a few feet from the intersection stop bars). An ambulance approached the intersection after the light had been red for some time, and traffic was already stacked up at the light. The ambulance driver started blaring his horn at the cars in front of him because they wouldn't immediately jump out into the intersection. But from where he was positioned, the cross-traffic couldn't see the ambulance, and they weren't stopping for him. They hesitated, and I don't blame them. Things like that are where I draw the line. It wouldn't have been unreasonable at an intersection with good visibility, but he was basically expecting people to jump in front of oncoming traffic for him. Incidentally, the rules for how one must respond to an emergency vehicle will vary from state to state. In Texas, at least, you are always required to yield right-of-way, but you aren't required to pull over and stop outright unless traffic conditions permit. |
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| Author: | Rorinthas [ Tue Sep 08, 2009 6:09 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Emergency Services Vehicles |
I'm fairly certain (DE please back me up on this) That here in Ohio you have to get permission from dispatch for Code 3 (lights and Sirens) but once you do you're pretty limited to operator descretion from there out. If you're being granted the Code 3, then they want you to get there as fast as you humanly can. My Pastor who is the department Chaplain experienced Police Code 3s where the officer has gone 80 in a 35. He did call this person a rookie who was acting like he had something to proove. Forcing people to move against the light is a bad idea, but i'm thinking he probably should have went around him and wonder if some people didn't ignore the oncoming siren. On coming traffic should have been stopped too and he should have just been able to go past them. I'm sure all our first responders get detailed training on what acceptable code 3 behavior is (local experts please feel free to share) If you think a ESV has responded in a negative fashion please get the vehicle number and contact the services non emergency number. I'm sure they'd be happy to address your concern. |
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| Author: | Diamondeye [ Tue Sep 08, 2009 6:35 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Emergency Services Vehicles |
Rafael wrote: Just a question about how much priority do vehicles have in saving someone's life. How much does/should traffic yield? This question is generic in context, meaning the vehicle(s) may be traversing one block at 1 a.m. in Suburbsville or Smalltown where it encounters no cars, or it may be trying to get through downtown Manhattan in gridlocked traffic where it requires hundreds or maybe thousands of commuters and other traffic to yield. Absolute priority. Even funeral processions must yield. This is, of course limited by the physical ability to yield safely which varies with conditions. No one, for example, should yield by stopping on a railroad track. |
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| Author: | Diamondeye [ Tue Sep 08, 2009 6:38 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Emergency Services Vehicles |
Rorinthas wrote: I'm fairly certain (DE please back me up on this) That here in Ohio you have to get permission from dispatch for Code 3 (lights and Sirens) but once you do you're pretty limited to operator descretion from there out. If you're being granted the Code 3, then they want you to get there as fast as you humanly can. This depends on department policy. Generally speaking, policy will dictate the response for general types of calls. The supervisor or dispatcher may elevate or reduce the response code based on specific circumstances, and the officer will generally have some leeway based on conditions. |
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| Author: | Rorinthas [ Tue Sep 08, 2009 7:34 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
Maybe that's just here then that i've heard they have to request from dispatch. |
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| Author: | Micheal [ Tue Sep 08, 2009 7:41 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
No matter what you think, you are not inside the vehicle, you do not know why the lights and sirens are being used. If you insist on being an ******* and not yielding you may be interfering with the vehicle and personnel that may be saving someone's life. Do you really want to take that chance? |
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| Author: | Dalantia [ Tue Sep 08, 2009 8:30 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
Iowa protocol, for the record, is that lights and sirens is driver discretion and no one else's. Ambulances can violate traffic laws if they must in order to provide the most expedient and safe care to the patient, but only with lights and sirens going. EMT courses, however, generally discourage lights and sirens if the patient is conscious. |
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| Author: | darksiege [ Tue Sep 08, 2009 9:08 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
My policy on ESVs... I get the hell out of their way (safely). I do not want some cocksmith being the reason I do not get to an ER in time; as such I will not be a cock to anyone else trying to not die |
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| Author: | Monte [ Tue Sep 08, 2009 10:59 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
Get the **** out of the way. Nuff said. |
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| Author: | Rafael [ Tue Sep 08, 2009 11:11 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
This question assumes you are in a state/county where the policy that vehicles are required to yield to Emergency Services Vehicles. Let me rephrase the question: how much should we yield to vehicles that require "emergency priority"? |
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| Author: | Monte [ Tue Sep 08, 2009 11:11 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
Even if you aren't required to do so, get the **** out of the way. |
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| Author: | Rafael [ Tue Sep 08, 2009 11:15 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: |
Monte wrote: Even if you aren't required to do so, get the **** out of the way. Ok, so what would be even safer is if we had knew what path the dispatched vehicle required and froze all traffic on it until the vehicle has accomplished it's task. Do you agree this is the case? |
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| Author: | Monte [ Tue Sep 08, 2009 11:17 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
Sure, although I don't think that's always necessary. If the rule is "everyone goes to the right", great. |
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| Author: | Rafael [ Tue Sep 08, 2009 11:21 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
Should the ambulance be allowed to go triple the speed limit if it increases the patient's chance of survival by 33%? |
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| Author: | shuyung [ Wed Sep 09, 2009 12:28 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Emergency Services Vehicles |
I am not sure where you are going with this. I am comfortably certain that all 50 states, as part of a resident's licensing requirement, demand that resident recognize the primacy of an emergency services vehicle's right of way in the pursuit of its duties (i.e. flashers and sirens active). One would hope that drivers of emergency services vehicles are well trained and display consistently good and swift decision making. Rafael wrote: Ok, so what would be even safer is if we had knew what path the dispatched vehicle required and froze all traffic on it until the vehicle has accomplished it's task. Do you agree this is the case? Where did this come from? It would require a ground traffic control center with comprehensive knowledge of prevailing conditions such as weather, obstructions, construction, vehicles, etc., and override capabilities of traffic signals, variable speed limit signs, AMBER alert bulletin boards, etc. Considering the invasion of privacy that would be required for such, and the cost to implement, it would be neither desirable nor viable. |
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| Author: | Leshani [ Wed Sep 09, 2009 12:29 am ] |
| Post subject: | |
Obscure Trivia: Can you name the one vehicle that has the right of way over all other forms of traffic? This right is never utilized or enforced. |
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| Author: | Lex Luthor [ Wed Sep 09, 2009 12:30 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: |
Leshani wrote: Obscure Trivia: Can you name the one vehicle that has the right of way over all other forms of traffic? This right is never utilized or enforced. Mail carrier? |
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| Author: | Stathol [ Wed Sep 09, 2009 12:38 am ] |
| Post subject: | |
Ostensibly, one objective of the interstate highway system, was to provide emergency landing space for aircraft. |
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| Author: | darksiege [ Wed Sep 09, 2009 1:01 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: |
Leshani wrote: Obscure Trivia: Can you name the one vehicle that has the right of way over all other forms of traffic? This right is never utilized or enforced. I know this is NOT the right answer... but my guess is an M1 Abrams Tank. |
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| Author: | FarSky [ Wed Sep 09, 2009 7:26 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: |
Rafael wrote: Let me rephrase the question: how much should we yield to vehicles that require "emergency priority"? Completely. |
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| Author: | Rafael [ Wed Sep 09, 2009 7:28 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Re: |
FarSky wrote: Rafael wrote: Let me rephrase the question: how much should we yield to vehicles that require "emergency priority"? Completely. Define what you mean by this, please. |
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