The Glade 4.0
https://gladerebooted.net/

Too big to re-fail
https://gladerebooted.net/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=730		 Page 1 of 2
Author:  Uncle Fester [ Sun Nov 01, 2009 7:36 pm ]
Post subject:  Too big to re-fail
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/33576310/ns ... s_business


God that was money well spent and jobs saved.
Author:  Müs [ Sun Nov 01, 2009 8:10 pm ]
Post subject: 
BWAHAHAHAHAHA!!!
Author:  Serienya [ Sun Nov 01, 2009 9:42 pm ]
Post subject: 
At least they didn't prop it up further before. I'd rather they figure out it was a losing proposition than repeat the mistake by throwing more money into it.
Author:  Xequecal [ Mon Nov 02, 2009 3:39 am ]
Post subject:  Re: To big to re-fail
Hard evidence that Obama's economic team has no idea:

http://otrans.3cdn.net/45593e8ecbd339d074_l3m6bt1te.pdf

This is a White House report from January 2009. Scroll down to Page 4 where they project the unemployment rate. Look at the light blue line that's essentially saying, "Oh my god we have to pass this stimulus now or it'll be THIS bad." Doesn't look so bad today, does it?
Author:  Hannibal [ Mon Nov 02, 2009 10:33 am ]
Post subject: 
keep a copy of that Xeq, I'm sure there will be some ninja editing of things by this administration of revisionist history.
Author:  Hannibal [ Mon Nov 02, 2009 10:56 am ]
Post subject: 
Oh and on a related note, now groups of private investors are snatching up banks at bargin prices. It's all going to happen again.
Author:  Ladas [ Mon Nov 02, 2009 11:08 am ]
Post subject:  Re:
Hannibal wrote:
Oh and on a related note, now groups of private investors are snatching up banks at bargin prices. It's all going to happen again.

That's just the market setting a price point for a good, and no different than buyers starting to pick up homes at the decreased price.

However, the move of the regulators to "postpone" or offset the yet undisclosed commercial property problem is unsettling.
Author:  Khross [ Mon Nov 02, 2009 11:25 am ]
Post subject:  Re: To big to re-fail
We're in a outright Depression, despite the blatant lies and propaganda of the President and his Administration.
Author:  TheRiov [ Mon Nov 02, 2009 12:06 pm ]
Post subject: 
out of cureosity, (and partially playing devils advocate here) i've heard it said that the biggest problem in the economy is perception. people are afraid so they dont spend and instead hoarde, banks wont loan, etc.

If the 'cure' is to change public perception and thus get them back into consuming wouldn't that be the right thing to do?
Author:  Khross [ Mon Nov 02, 2009 12:08 pm ]
Post subject:  Re:
TheRiov wrote:
out of cureosity, (and partially playing devils advocate here) i've heard it said that the biggest problem in the economy is perception. people are afraid so they dont spend and instead hoarde, banks wont loan, etc.

If the 'cure' is to change public perception and thus get them back into consuming wouldn't that be the right thing to do?
Except, John Maynard Keynes was wrong.
Author:  Rafael [ Mon Nov 02, 2009 12:22 pm ]
Post subject: 
If people "hoard", that lowers interest rates and increases deposit institutions wililngness to lend.

"Consuming" is the problem, not the solution. The solution is to stop consuming and rebalance the economy based on productions and savings which naturally drives down interest rates. However, as interest rates continue to fall, both borrowing for consumption and legitimate investment (capital formation) will increase. This will drive up interest rates. Thus interest rates are a self-regulated negative feedback mechanism. Supressing interest rates artificially through increased liqudity (a la quantitative easing) means consumption starts to dominate productivity and savings, which is bad. This will stimulate malinfestment, consumer spending (when disproportional to actual productivity) is part of. An individual cannot consume more than he produces, and in the aggregate, this is also true unless something is willing to underconsume. Imagine what your cruise control on your car would do, if the processor recieved information that speed was (falsely) being indicated as lower than it really was and never actually increased accordingly as your car accelerated.

The consequence, in the short term, of this solution is recession and depression.
Author:  Hannibal [ Mon Nov 02, 2009 2:30 pm ]
Post subject:  Re:
TheRiov wrote:
out of cureosity, (and partially playing devils advocate here) i've heard it said that the biggest problem in the economy is perception. people are afraid so they dont spend and instead hoarde, banks wont loan, etc.

If the 'cure' is to change public perception and thus get them back into consuming wouldn't that be the right thing to do?



I agree, but shaping perception is what got us into this mess according to Obama. We had the perception that a AAA rated company was in good financial shape. We had the perception that the useful idiots who have chaired the fed over the years knew what they were doing. We had the perception that those who were regulating the financial industry were actually doing their jobs (ie the madoff debacle).

So shaping peoples perception to make them do something you want is really just lying. Or propaganda if youre the government. No matter how it's being spun, we are bleeding jobs that are not being replaced. No matter how it is spun, our financial health depends on people spending. If you are smart, you are conserving your resources, and stopping the bleeding if you are in that position. If you are a typical american zombie, you are running up your credit cards because you are shortsighted and "the recession is over".
Author:  Khross [ Mon Nov 02, 2009 3:32 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: To big to re-fail
Public Perception is only the cure if you seek to control behavior. Contrary to the government's position on things, the Economy does regulate itself in the absence of government intrusion. Inflation serves those with primary access to "money" as a wealth vehicle: the government, the Fed, and the Banks. Maintaining an inflationary cycle is precisely why the Rich/Poor gap never shrinks along natural waves in the United States. The Long Depression wasn't a depression except in the perpetual inflation model. Rather, barring new technological leaps and inventing bursts, consumers have little need to consume the latest and greatest. As such, as the to production cost of a commodity drops over time, so does its price in real exchange. Maintaining inflation combats this trend to keep those non-Gentrified individuals from gaining economic mobility.

So, yes, Public Perception is the cure to our ailing economy, at least, that is, from the perspective of those who already have more money than they can use.
Author:  Rafael [ Mon Nov 02, 2009 4:05 pm ]
Post subject: 
But do you contend they perpetuate an inflationary, monetarist model specifically to keep the poor from gaining upwards mobility, or that such a condition is a byproduct of system that allows busy bodies to stay occupied?
Author:  Khross [ Mon Nov 02, 2009 5:26 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: To big to re-fail
It's a power control mechanism. If you commoditize labor and limit economic mobility, you marginalize the majority of the population while pacifying them. You don't need a "ruling class" when it's invisible to general public.
Author:  Monte [ Mon Nov 02, 2009 8:47 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: To big to re-fail
Khross wrote:
We're in a outright Depression, despite the blatant lies and propaganda of the President and his Administration.


So, the economic growth is non existent?
Author:  Lydiaa [ Mon Nov 02, 2009 9:15 pm ]
Post subject: 
I guess the analogy would be along the lines of... If you were going up crap creek with out a paddle and using only your hands, and the current were going in the other direction. In the time frame specified you have gained 100m however the current carried you back 1km, do you still gain?
Author:  Khross [ Mon Nov 02, 2009 11:36 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: To big to re-fail
Monte wrote:
Khross wrote:
We're in a outright Depression, despite the blatant lies and propaganda of the President and his Administration.
So, the economic growth is non existent?
What economic growth? The United States is in a Depression, contrary to all the unsubstantiated assertions of our President and Paul Krugman. There are all sorts of problems with the economic policies coming out of Washington, regardless of party, that simply accumulate to make matters worse. Bank Failure rates in 2008 Exceeded the 1929 Levels. Bank Failure Rates in 2009 are poised to exceed the cumulative failure rates of 1930-1933. Ladas alluded to the blossoming commercial property problem. And your economic growth number is padded by new Housing construction in a stagnant market. Unsellable inventory ceases to be an asset when the market is dipping below the construction costs of the product. Just like your favorite 20th Century President, Obama dropped the ball.

The Recession, which started in 2007 at the latest (I called that, too by the way), would have been over if they had let these businesses fail. It would have been bloody, but the market, particularly labor, would have corrected itself and the currency would have regained health. Instead, two consecutive administrations have done everything in their power to doom the economy. Hell, Good Intentions, and All That.

So, where we are now is a currency and inventory crisis compounding a liquidity crisis on the systemic level, following the housing and financials crises. It's purely awesome: the U.S. Economy is disintegrating and only the ideologues believe it's getting better.

Let me know when your Big Mac Value meal ceases to have a nationwide average price of $7.00 with tax (and rising). The same value meal was, by the by, only $4.00 nation wide in 2002. Then we'll start talking about actual corrections.
Author:  darksiege [ Tue Nov 03, 2009 2:01 am ]
Post subject:  Re: To big to re-fail
Monte wrote:
Khross wrote:
We're in a outright Depression, despite the blatant lies and propaganda of the President and his Administration.


So, the economic growth is non existent?


One of my professors today told us that the current NV statistic is that 1 out of 7 people in Las Vegas is unemployed. We are going to lose 800 more jobs from a single company pretty soon here. Some areas may have seen a limited growth, but the way my town is going, hell the way things for me have degraded recently tells me it is still going to get worse.
Author:  Uncle Fester [ Tue Nov 03, 2009 7:42 am ]
Post subject:  Re: To big to re-fail
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/co ... 12_pf.html

some economic growth..in guns and ammo. Something I am sure Barry did not want to stimulate. Wonderfully biased as most posts stories are.
Author:  Elmarnieh [ Tue Nov 03, 2009 1:54 pm ]
Post subject: 
Ammo is down some 30% from its height around here. Almost back to normal.
Author:  Hannibal [ Tue Nov 03, 2009 3:08 pm ]
Post subject: 
Oooooh I wanna go shopping Elmo!
Author:  Elmarnieh [ Tue Nov 03, 2009 4:35 pm ]
Post subject: 
*takes Hannibal's hand and skips down the street*
Author:  Hannibal [ Tue Nov 03, 2009 7:05 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Too big to re-fail
But what would be the soundtrack?
Author:  Uncle Fester [ Tue Nov 03, 2009 7:08 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Too big to re-fail
Bikini girls with machine guns?
Page 1 of 2 All times are UTC - 6 hours [ DST ]
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group
https://www.phpbb.com/