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Colonizing Space - Who Owns the Moon?
https://gladerebooted.net/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=7488		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  RangerDave [ Thu Oct 27, 2011 10:52 am ]
Post subject:  Colonizing Space - Who Owns the Moon?
So, when the day comes that both governmental and private groups are able to start placing long-term facilities on the Moon, how do y'all think issues of jurisdiction and ownership should be decided? Should the U.S. be allowed to plant a flag (again) and declare such-and-such a region of the Moon American territory? Should Richard Branson be able to build a big-ass Virgin Galactic spaceport and claim the land it's on as his personal property (and if so, subject to which country's property laws)? And so forth. Basically just curious what folks here think.
Author:  FarSky [ Thu Oct 27, 2011 10:58 am ]
Post subject: 
It's ours, *****!
Author:  Arathain Kelvar [ Thu Oct 27, 2011 10:59 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Colonizing Space - Who Owns the Moon?
RangerDave wrote:
So, when the day comes that both governmental and private groups are able to start placing long-term facilities on the Moon, how do y'all think issues of jurisdiction and ownership should be decided? Should the U.S. be allowed to plant a flag (again) and declare such-and-such a region of the Moon American territory? Should Richard Branson be able to build a big-ass Virgin Galactic spaceport and claim the land it's on as his personal property (and if so, subject to which country's property laws)? And so forth. Basically just curious what folks here think.


Possession is 9/10....
Author:  Hopwin [ Thu Oct 27, 2011 11:27 am ]
Post subject: 
Better question, what happens to all the moon-squatters and whalers?
Author:  Rorinthas [ Thu Oct 27, 2011 11:29 am ]
Post subject: 
It could have been ours, but we choose to claim it on behalf of all humanity. So I think it probably will come down to possession.
Author:  FarSky [ Thu Oct 27, 2011 11:32 am ]
Post subject: 
Thank God we didn't **** over NASA!




...oh.
Author:  Lex Luthor [ Thu Oct 27, 2011 11:35 am ]
Post subject: 
#occupythemoon
Author:  Kaffis Mark V [ Thu Oct 27, 2011 12:04 pm ]
Post subject: 
Whomever occupies it, owns it until it's invaded. Much like any terrestrial land.

So far, the United States have occupied it (briefly). We're not really defending it, though, so it would be easy to invade. Also, it would probably be pretty safe from reprisal to do so, since when we *did* occupy it, we announced we weren't going to be all territorial and **** with it.

Thus, you're not invading sovereign land, you're merely seizing the commons. Which is probably considered somewhat less offensive in the international community.
Author:  Rynar [ Thu Oct 27, 2011 12:06 pm ]
Post subject: 
Google.
Author:  Talya [ Thu Oct 27, 2011 12:09 pm ]
Post subject: 
For the special low price of $10 an acre, you can own your own peice of moon land NOW. We take Mastercard, Visa, and Paypal.
Author:  FarSky [ Thu Oct 27, 2011 12:14 pm ]
Post subject: 
M-O-O-N, that spells "advanced colonization opportunities."
Author:  Hannibal [ Thu Oct 27, 2011 1:47 pm ]
Post subject: 
It's going to be whoever can project the force to hold the territory. Or Gru if he can get that shrink ray from Vector.
Author:  Talya [ Thu Oct 27, 2011 1:49 pm ]
Post subject:  Re:
Talya wrote:
For the special low price of $10 an acre, you can own your own peice of moon land NOW. We take Mastercard, Visa, and Paypal.


We're also creating a new moon-estate-backed security, which will revolutionize retirement savings.
Author:  Corolinth [ Thu Oct 27, 2011 1:56 pm ]
Post subject: 
Whoever has the Moon purview gets to fight over it.
Author:  Nitefox [ Thu Oct 27, 2011 2:34 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Colonizing Space - Who Owns the Moon?
Andy Williams does.
Author:  Corolinth [ Thu Oct 27, 2011 4:03 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Colonizing Space - Who Owns the Moon?
Author:  Diamondeye [ Thu Oct 27, 2011 4:17 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Colonizing Space - Who Owns the Moon?
Due to the idiotic Outer Space Treaty currently, no one can do much of anything economically useful with the moon or any other celestial body since they're part of the "common heritage of all mankind" or some such bullshit.

Because, you know, we wouldn't want to pollute or despoil a gas giant, or an airless, waterless ball of rock, or a freezing-cold radiation-swamped vaccuum. :roll:

Pretty much it belongs to whoever A) gets there first and B) has the ability to tell the Euro-wankers to **** off when they start screaming. We should have abrogated this treaty years ago.
Author:  Slythe [ Thu Oct 27, 2011 7:03 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Colonizing Space - Who Owns the Moon?
...

Anyway, nice clip Coro.
Author:  shuyung [ Thu Oct 27, 2011 9:42 pm ]
Post subject: 
Delos David Harriman
Author:  Micheal [ Thu Oct 27, 2011 10:43 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Colonizing Space - Who Owns the Moon?
Diamondeye wrote:
We should have abrogated this treaty years ago.


No, leaving it there until we have the ability to colonize the moon iss the right thing to do.

-> If anyone beats us there we can whine, cry, and point to the treaty.
-> If we get to the point we can colonize the moon and no one else is to that point, we can point to the treaty and offer tours to all who can afford them.
-> If we're in a race to colonize the moon, we can point to the treaty again, and claim the landing sites from the moon landing days as World Heritage Sites that we control.
-> If we find there is an alien race or native life there that we didn't discover last time around, we tell them "so sorry, already claimed by the folks on the big blue marble, where's your flag?"

Leaving the treaty in place gives us the most viable options until we decide to abrogate it.
Author:  Diamondeye [ Fri Oct 28, 2011 12:41 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Colonizing Space - Who Owns the Moon?
Micheal wrote:
Diamondeye wrote:
We should have abrogated this treaty years ago.


No, leaving it there until we have the ability to colonize the moon iss the right thing to do.

-> If anyone beats us there we can whine, cry, and point to the treaty.
-> If we get to the point we can colonize the moon and no one else is to that point, we can point to the treaty and offer tours to all who can afford them.
-> If we're in a race to colonize the moon, we can point to the treaty again, and claim the landing sites from the moon landing days as World Heritage Sites that we control.
-> If we find there is an alien race or native life there that we didn't discover last time around, we tell them "so sorry, already claimed by the folks on the big blue marble, where's your flag?"

Leaving the treaty in place gives us the most viable options until we decide to abrogate it.


Those are all valid points, but I think the current legal impossibility of making any money whatsoever in space (as opposed to making money launching satellites, which might be possible) has done enormous harm to space exploration in general. This treaty was signed at a time when we were well ahead in terms of ability to eventually colonize. Now, we've largely lost the ability to construct heavy-lift rockets and haven't done serious work on such things in a long time. Constellation/Ares was as close as we got but...
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