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PostPosted: Wed Nov 02, 2011 8:52 am 
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http://www.nytimes.com/2011/11/02/nyreg ... nted=print

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Dismal Tale of Arrest for Tiniest of Crimes
By JIM DWYER
The arresting officer came by the cell, Samantha Zucker said, to make snide remarks about finding her with a friend in Riverside Park after its 1 a.m. closing.

For instance:

“He was telling me that I needed to get a new boyfriend, that I should get a guy who takes me out to dinner,” Ms. Zucker said. “He mocked me for being from Westchester.”

Early in the morning on Oct. 22, a Saturday, Ms. Zucker, 21, and her friend Alex Fischer, also 21, were stopped by the police in Riverside Park and given tickets for trespassing. Mr. Fischer was permitted to leave after he produced his driver’s license. But Ms. Zucker, on a visit to New York City with a group of Carnegie Mellon University seniors looking for jobs in design industries, had left her wallet in a hotel two blocks away.

She was handcuffed. For the next 36 hours, she was moved from a cell in the 26th Precinct station house on West 126th Street to central booking in Lower Manhattan and then — because one of the officers was ending his shift before Ms. Zucker could be photographed for her court appearance, and you didn’t think he was going to take the subway uptown while his partner stayed with her at booking, did you? — she was brought back to Harlem.

There she waited in a cell until a pair of fresh police officers were rustled up to bring her back downtown for booking, where she spent a second night in custody.

The judge proceeded to dismiss the ticket in less than a minute.

News about the Police Department lately could run under the headline of the daily Dismal Development, starting with a judge declaring Tuesday that an officer was guilty of planting drugs on entirely innocent people and continuing back a few days to gun-smuggling, pepper-spraying and ticket-fixing.

Here, in the pointless arrest of Ms. Zucker, is a crime that is not even on the books: the staggering waste of spirit, the squandering of public resources, the follies disguised as crime-fighting. About 40,000 people a year — the vast majority of them young black and Latino men — are fed like widgets onto a conveyor belt of arrest, booking and court, after being told to empty their pockets and thus commit the misdemeanor of “open display” of marijuana.

Such arrests are a drain on the human economy.

Ms. Zucker said that throughout her stay in police station cells, other officers were shocked that she had not been given a chance to have a friend fetch her ID. “The female officers were gossiping that the officer who arrested me had an incredibly short fuse,” she said.

We are instructed by the mayor that the garish crimes of police gun-running and fake arrests are the work of rogues, not the daily toil of honest police officers. A fair point — but no more than Ms. Zucker’s observations of spiritual corruption.

“While it may have been one out-of-control officer that began the process,” she said, “no other officer had the courage to stand up against what they knew was a poor decision.”

After two days of storming design firms around the city with about 80 classmates, Ms. Zucker stopped at the hotel near West 103rd Street where the group was staying so she could drop off the bag she had been schlepping. Then she got Mr. Fischer — a classmate, not a boyfriend, the leering remark of the police officer to the contrary — to walk with her a few blocks to the park, at about 3 a.m. They wanted to see the Hudson River, which runs past her hometown of Ardsley, N.Y.

“We’re there five minutes when a police car came up and told us we had to leave because the park was closed,” Mr. Fischer said. “We said, ‘O.K., we didn’t know,’ and turned around to leave. Almost immediately, a second police car pulls up.”

Its driver said they would get tickets for trespassing and demanded their IDs. Ms. Zucker suggested that someone could bring her papers from the hotel. “He said it was too late for that, I should have thought of it earlier,” she said.

Asked about the policy, the Police Department’s chief spokesman, Paul J. Browne, said officers can allow a friend or relative to retrieve ID. He did not say if a supervisor approved the arrest of Ms. Zucker, which was attributed in court papers to a Police Officer Durrell of the 26th Precinct.

Twice, she said, the officer told her not to call him by a specific foul term.

“I said, ‘Sir, I never used that word.’ ”

No doubt he was hearing things: the unspoken truth about his unspeakable actions.


Wow, this story reminds me of Soviet Russia or Nazi Germany.

edit: After second examination it seems she was arrested for trespassing, not for not having the ID... but still out of line in my opinion.


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 02, 2011 9:01 am 
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Lex Luthor wrote:
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/11/02/nyregion/dismal-tale-of-arrest-for-tiniest-of-crimes.html?_r=1&hp=&pagewanted=print

Wow, this story reminds me of Soviet Russia or Nazi Germany.

edit: After second examination it seems she was arrested for trespassing, not for not having the ID... but still out of line in my opinion.


Hyperbole much?

Yes, the arrest was over the top, but not comparable to either of those paradigms.

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 02, 2011 9:03 am 
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Müs wrote:
Lex Luthor wrote:
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/11/02/nyregion/dismal-tale-of-arrest-for-tiniest-of-crimes.html?_r=1&hp=&pagewanted=print

Wow, this story reminds me of Soviet Russia or Nazi Germany.

edit: After second examination it seems she was arrested for trespassing, not for not having the ID... but still out of line in my opinion.


Hyperbole much?

Yes, the arrest was over the top, but not comparable to either of those paradigms.


She was kept in prison for two nights for hardly doing anything wrong. I think it's comparable.


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 02, 2011 9:04 am 
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Müs wrote:
Lex Luthor wrote:
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/11/02/nyregion/dismal-tale-of-arrest-for-tiniest-of-crimes.html?_r=1&hp=&pagewanted=print

Wow, this story reminds me of Soviet Russia or Nazi Germany.

edit: After second examination it seems she was arrested for trespassing, not for not having the ID... but still out of line in my opinion.


Hyperbole much?

Yes, the arrest was over the top, but not comparable to either of those paradigms.


I disagree. Why don't you think it's comprable?

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 02, 2011 9:10 am 
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How do you think it started there Mus?

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 02, 2011 9:19 am 
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Human economy .... spiritual corruption?

Ugh I bet the author wears a hemp necklace. Anyway, string up the cops that did it. Identity can be determined quickly and accurately without a state issued id.

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 02, 2011 9:22 am 
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Hannibal wrote:
Identity can be determined quickly and accurately without a state issued id.


But... what if she's an illegal and lying Canadian?!


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 02, 2011 9:27 am 
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Lex Luthor wrote:
Hannibal wrote:
Identity can be determined quickly and accurately without a state issued id.


But... what if she's an illegal and lying Canadian?!


If she was an illegal immigrant she would have been let go since NY is a sanctuary city I believe.

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 02, 2011 11:17 am 
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Why did it take 36 hours to get her ID? Her friend couldn't have walked the two blocks to get it? I once didn't have an insurance card at a traffic stop and I was about 2-3 blocks from home. My gf at the time was allowed to bring it to me. Something's not right.

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 02, 2011 12:05 pm 
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Rorinthas wrote:
Why did it take 36 hours to get her ID? Her friend couldn't have walked the two blocks to get it? I once didn't have an insurance card at a traffic stop and I was about 2-3 blocks from home. My gf at the time was allowed to bring it to me. Something's not right.


This. There's more to the story than "someone was arrested for not having ID".

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 02, 2011 12:16 pm 
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Rorinthas wrote:
Why did it take 36 hours to get her ID? Her friend couldn't have walked the two blocks to get it? I once didn't have an insurance card at a traffic stop and I was about 2-3 blocks from home. My gf at the time was allowed to bring it to me. Something's not right.

Guessing part of the problem was that she was relocated several times between different stations, so while they were blocks from her ID at the time of arrest, her friends didn't know where she was at any given time. Then there is fact she was arrested and taken in. After that, it isn't a simple matter of showing up with the ID to have the police dismiss the charges on the spot.


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 02, 2011 1:38 pm 
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Rynar wrote:
I disagree. Why don't you think it's comprable?


You mean, besides the fact that the judge dismissed the charges against her, and even the other officers apparently didn't approve of his actions?

It is not even remotely comparable to either of those situations if, indeed, this article is accurate. The language of it strongly indicates facts were a lot less important than talking about "spiritual corruption" and other such nonsense.

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 02, 2011 2:27 pm 
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The arrest and detainment, DE.

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19 Yet she became more and more promiscuous as she recalled the days of her youth, when she was a prostitute in Egypt. 20 There she lusted after her lovers, whose genitals were like those of donkeys and whose emission was like that of horses.

Ezekiel 23:19-20 


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 02, 2011 6:10 pm 
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Rynar wrote:
The arrest and detainment, DE.


She got arrested for trespassing. I fail to see how this is something worthy of the Soviet Union or Nazi Germany. Unless you simply think arrest and detainment are something that would happen in Nazi Germany, and therefore are bad. Taking a **** is something that happened in Nazi Germany and the Soviet Union too. Is that also bad?

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 02, 2011 6:12 pm 
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That's a bit obtuse... don't you think?

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19 Yet she became more and more promiscuous as she recalled the days of her youth, when she was a prostitute in Egypt. 20 There she lusted after her lovers, whose genitals were like those of donkeys and whose emission was like that of horses.

Ezekiel 23:19-20 


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 02, 2011 6:17 pm 
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Rynar wrote:
That's a bit obtuse... don't you think?


No.

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 02, 2011 6:22 pm 
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Diamondeye wrote:
Rynar wrote:
That's a bit obtuse... don't you think?


No.


You've managed to ignore the relevant parts that make it comparable, instead focusing on the innocuous... I don't know what else to call it.

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19 Yet she became more and more promiscuous as she recalled the days of her youth, when she was a prostitute in Egypt. 20 There she lusted after her lovers, whose genitals were like those of donkeys and whose emission was like that of horses.

Ezekiel 23:19-20 


Last edited by Rynar on Wed Nov 02, 2011 6:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 02, 2011 6:24 pm 
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Rynar wrote:
You've managed to ignore the relevent parts that make it comprable, instead focusing on the innocuous... I don't know what else to call it.


Since there are no relevant parts, and the comparison is totally outrageous, it's probably better that you say nothing.

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 02, 2011 6:29 pm 
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Diamondeye wrote:
Rynar wrote:
You've managed to ignore the relevant parts that make it comparable, instead focusing on the innocuous... I don't know what else to call it.


Since there are no relevant parts, and the comparison is totally outrageous, it's probably better that you say nothing.


I strenuously disagree, but then, you already knew that. As always, this is where we reach our impasse, and there is probably no point to the two of us continuing this particular conversation as there is nothing to be gained.

Lets just skip to the end where you claim me to be an lolbertarian advocating an unworkable system, and I claim you to be a jack-booted fascist advocating an authoritarian state. :P

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19 Yet she became more and more promiscuous as she recalled the days of her youth, when she was a prostitute in Egypt. 20 There she lusted after her lovers, whose genitals were like those of donkeys and whose emission was like that of horses.

Ezekiel 23:19-20 


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 02, 2011 6:42 pm 
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Done. What's the next topic on the agenda?

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