The Glade 4.0 :: View topic - Election Results, Republican Idiocy or Occupy X Success?

I didn't pay a great deal of attention to them, but if it's anything like the smoking issue a few years back or the issue that was to limit payday lending institutions, it was mostly a contest to see which side could lie about it harder. Ohio ballot initiatives are basically about which side can engage in more theatrics.

Like Kaffis said, there was probably some pretty one-sided financial support.

I also think they over-reached with this one bill; they'd have been better off to simply prohibit strikes and demand contributions to health benefits and pensions.

Pretty much agree on all counts. Especially about Ohio ballot initiatives and theatrics. Boy do we apparently love our ballot initiatives in Ohio. I'm not entirely sure why we bother having State legislators in the first place.

One final note, the guys who got the initiative placed on the ballot were pretty cunning in their wording, too. Voting "No" repealed the law, which makes the whole thing pretty confusing if you're trying to read through and make your own decision. Not an issue for the pro-union crowd, since they've got the infrastructure in place to just go "Guys, everybody vote No."

As for over-reaching, I agree, we'd have been better off if the scope had been less ambitious.

That'd just be bullshit, too. They don't need to lie about the dollar impact because they don't **** have a clue what it is in the first place.

Diamondeye wrote:

That'd just be bullshit, too. They don't need to lie about the dollar impact because they don't **** have a clue what it is in the first place.

You don't think more people would consider their choice if it said, "$499 per $100,000 of home value" over saying 4.99 mils?

No. $499 over what timeframe? To most people, $499 per $100,000 doesn't sound like a lot.. and when was the last time you saw something for 4.99 mils? That's an enormous increase; I can't remember the last time I saw anything over 1 mil.

I said $499 per 100,000 doesn't sound like a lot, not $499 doesn't sound like a lot by itself. People are already looking at 4.99 mils and think "meh, doesn't sound like much" because they think of their tax bill as a whole, to all levels of government, and they largely would do the same with $499 per $100K.

The real problem with property taxes, in Ohio at least, isn't whether they use mils or dollars on the ballots, it's the hystrionics used in any campaign about "ZOMG we'll have to cut services! Class sizes will increase!" where they have some cute young teacher looking plantively at the camera and implying if you don't vote for it, you hate children or some ****.

Furthermore, 4.99 mils is still unusually high.

Democrats control Montgomery County Pa for the first time in 140 years. We got our Controller in so we can keep an eye on their office budgets but that's it.

Author:	Micheal [ Wed Nov 09, 2011 6:07 am ]
Post subject:	Election Results, Republican Idiocy or Occupy X Success?
http://news.yahoo.com/banner-night-demo ... 00032.html A Banner Night for Democrats as High-Profile Ballot Initiatives Go Blue Time.comBy ALEX ALTMAN \| Time.com – 2 hrs 19 mins ago In a hard-won victory for Democrats and their labor-union allies, Ohioans decisively rejected the state's collective-bargaining law on Tuesday night, repealing Republican Governor John Kasich's signature legislation in a referendum that could reverberate into 2012. Known as Issue 2, the ballot proposition asked voters to decide whether to implement or throw out a recently passed law, known as SB5, that would prevent public-employee unions from collective bargaining, prohibit strikes and force teachers, police offers and firefighters to contribute a set amount toward their health benefits and pensions. The Associated Press called the race with a quarter of precincts reporting and 63% of voters opting to restore bargaining rights for the state's 350,000 unionized public employees. The margin of victory was even larger than the rout projected by several recent polls. The referendum, the latest battle in the ongoing war over union rights and benefits, was the subject of a massive push by Big Labor. After SB5 passed last spring, unions stalled implementation by collecting more than a million signatures, and collected some $30 million to help galvanize opposition to the law. Its rejection was a sharp blow to Kasich, whose tethered himself to the contentious issue by aggressively urging its passage. "John Kasich chose to put his face on this campaign," said state Democratic Party chairman Chris Redfern. "The people of the state pushed back." (Read about the labor unrests in Ohio and Wisconsin.) On Tuesday night, Kasich acknowledged the defeat with humility, pledging to take the will of the state's voters into account. "It's clear that the people have spoken. My view is when people speak in a campaign like this, in a referendum, you have to listen," he said. "I've heard their voices. I understand their decision. And frankly I respect what people have to say in an effort like this. As a result of that, it requires me to take a deep breath and spend some time reflecting on what happened." The victory in Ohio was the highlight of a banner night for Democrats, a commodity which has been in short supply since the party's shellacking in the 2010 midterm elections. In the evening's other hotly anticipated ballot proposition, Mississippians shot down an anti-abortion constitutional amendment known as the "Personhood amendment," which would have imposed the stiffest restrictions on abortion of any state. The amendment sought to define life as beginning at the point of fertilization, banned all abortions — including those to pregnancies caused by rape or incest — as well the morning-after pill. It would have been the first successful effort to pass a personhood amendment in the U.S., following two failed tries in Colorado. Though polls suggested the race was a toss-up, the measure's ambiguous wording and stringent standards caused some social conservatives to balk and others, like Governor Haley Barbour, to voice reservations even as they indicated their support for the measure. It was soundly defeated; with 64% of precincts reporting, 57% of voters opposed the initiative. Democrats also captured five of six statewide races in conservative Kentucky, including the battle for the governor's mansion, where Democratic incumbent Steve Beshear coasted to a second term. A moderate Democrat, Beshear — like Earl Ray Tomblin in West Virginia — charted a path to victory that included out-raising his opponent and steering clear of President Obama. In Arizona, Russell Pearce, the architect of the state's controversial immigration law, became the first sitting senator to be recalled in the state's history. (See photos of the showdown in Wisconsin.) The party also won a ballot initiative that restored same-day voter registration in Maine, a provision that has historically favored Democrats. And in Virginia, with results still streaming in and several extremely tight races, the GOP appeared poised to fall short of its goal of winning the two net sets necessary to flip the State Senate, which would have given Republicans complete control in Richmond and a hammerlock on the redistricting process. Republicans scored several victories of their own. In Mississippi's governor's race, Lieutenant Governor Phil Bryant easily warded off a challenge from Johnny DuPree, the first black candidate to win a major party's nomination for governor of that state since Reconstruction. In Ohio, voters passed Issue 3, a largely symbolic Tea Party-infused measure that seeks to prevent compulsory participation in Obama's health insurance individual mandate. Setbacks notwithstanding, the night was a rare burst of good news for a beleaguered Democratic Party, and nowhere was the victory sweeter than in Ohio. SB5, which went further than Wisconsin's controversial union legislation by including police officers and firefighters, sparked a similar outcry, with intense statehouse protests foreshadowing the coordinated effort to roll back the legislation. "The repeal of SB5 is a monumental victory for working families not only in Ohio, but all across the country," said Michael Sargeant, executive director of Democratic Legislative Campaign Committee. The lesson, according to Sargeant? "There is a price to pay for right-wing extremism and partisan overreach."

Author:	Vindicarre [ Wed Nov 09, 2011 7:09 am ]
Post subject:
I don't see evidence of either (at least no more idiocy than usual).

Author:	Kaffis Mark V [ Wed Nov 09, 2011 8:20 am ]
Post subject:
Ohio's got a pretty high proportion of public employees, lots of union presence, and I'm pretty sure the cash flow from the national stage into Ohio was pretty significant and somewhat one-sided. I look forward to somebody running some numbers on that one. As DFK! commented, "Sure, it's easy to put signs that say 'Yes, vote against cops' bargaining power!' in your yard." Similarly, we had plenty of faculty displaying "No on Issue 2" signs on their cars in the lot here at school, and let me tell you how comfortable the notion of countering with a "Yes" sign...

Author:	Uncle Fester [ Wed Nov 09, 2011 8:56 am ]
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Hope Ohio enjoys its upcoming bankruptcy.

Author:	Kaffis Mark V [ Wed Nov 09, 2011 9:01 am ]
Post subject:
And I hope our public sector union members enjoy the layoffs. Particularly the more junior members who will be first on the chopping block regardless of their relative value to the senior members.

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Election Results, Republican Idiocy or Occupy X Success? https://gladerebooted.net/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=7604	Page 1 of 1

Author:	Diamondeye [ Wed Nov 09, 2011 9:13 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Election Results, Republican Idiocy or Occupy X Success?
We we getting ballot materials on this issue here in Texas, through mail forwarding. In fact, we got more mail here in Texas on this issue than we did on any Texas issues combined. I didn't pay a great deal of attention to them, but if it's anything like the smoking issue a few years back or the issue that was to limit payday lending institutions, it was mostly a contest to see which side could lie about it harder. Ohio ballot initiatives are basically about which side can engage in more theatrics. Like Kaffis said, there was probably some pretty one-sided financial support. I also think they over-reached with this one bill; they'd have been better off to simply prohibit strikes and demand contributions to health benefits and pensions.

Author:	Elmarnieh [ Wed Nov 09, 2011 9:20 am ]
Post subject:
Democrats control Montgomery County Pa for the first time in 140 years. We got our Controller in so we can keep an eye on their office budgets but that's it.

Author:	Kaffis Mark V [ Wed Nov 09, 2011 9:30 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Election Results, Republican Idiocy or Occupy X Success?
Diamondeye wrote: I didn't pay a great deal of attention to them, but if it's anything like the smoking issue a few years back or the issue that was to limit payday lending institutions, it was mostly a contest to see which side could lie about it harder. Ohio ballot initiatives are basically about which side can engage in more theatrics. Like Kaffis said, there was probably some pretty one-sided financial support. I also think they over-reached with this one bill; they'd have been better off to simply prohibit strikes and demand contributions to health benefits and pensions. Pretty much agree on all counts. Especially about Ohio ballot initiatives and theatrics. Boy do we apparently love our ballot initiatives in Ohio. I'm not entirely sure why we bother having State legislators in the first place. One final note, the guys who got the initiative placed on the ballot were pretty cunning in their wording, too. Voting "No" repealed the law, which makes the whole thing pretty confusing if you're trying to read through and make your own decision. Not an issue for the pro-union crowd, since they've got the infrastructure in place to just go "Guys, everybody vote No." As for over-reaching, I agree, we'd have been better off if the scope had been less ambitious.

Author:	Hopwin [ Wed Nov 09, 2011 9:53 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Election Results, Republican Idiocy or Occupy X Success?
Kaffis Mark V wrote: Pretty much agree on all counts. Especially about Ohio ballot initiatives and theatrics. Boy do we apparently love our ballot initiatives in Ohio. I'm not entirely sure why we bother having State legislators in the first place. One final note, the guys who got the initiative placed on the ballot were pretty cunning in their wording, too. Voting "No" repealed the law, which makes the whole thing pretty confusing if you're trying to read through and make your own decision. Not an issue for the pro-union crowd, since they've got the infrastructure in place to just go "Guys, everybody vote No." As for over-reaching, I agree, we'd have been better off if the scope had been less ambitious. Speaking of annoying wording on ballots, I think we need to force levy issues to display the actual dollar impact to the average voter on the ballot. No more of this mils crap or even XXX per 100 of valuation.

Author:	Diamondeye [ Wed Nov 09, 2011 9:57 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Election Results, Republican Idiocy or Occupy X Success?
That'd just be bullshit, too. They don't need to lie about the dollar impact because they don't **** have a clue what it is in the first place.

Author:	Hopwin [ Wed Nov 09, 2011 10:30 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Election Results, Republican Idiocy or Occupy X Success?
Diamondeye wrote: That'd just be bullshit, too. They don't need to lie about the dollar impact because they don't **** have a clue what it is in the first place. You don't think more people would consider their choice if it said, "$499 per $100,000 of home value" over saying 4.99 mils?

Author:	Kaffis Mark V [ Wed Nov 09, 2011 10:37 am ]
Post subject:
Yup. Thought so. $24 million vs. $8 million. But no, people. Big business is where all that evil money comes from.

Author:	Diamondeye [ Wed Nov 09, 2011 10:44 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Election Results, Republican Idiocy or Occupy X Success?
Hopwin wrote: Diamondeye wrote: That'd just be bullshit, too. They don't need to lie about the dollar impact because they don't **** have a clue what it is in the first place. You don't think more people would consider their choice if it said, "$499 per $100,000 of home value" over saying 4.99 mils? No. $499 over what timeframe? To most people, $499 per $100,000 doesn't sound like a lot.. and when was the last time you saw something for 4.99 mils? That's an enormous increase; I can't remember the last time I saw anything over 1 mil.

Author:	Rorinthas [ Wed Nov 09, 2011 10:55 am ]
Post subject:	Election Results, Republican Idiocy or Occupy X Success?
There were a lot of problems with issue 2/ SB5. It wasn't the right solution for the problem. I think it is disingenuous to say the tide has turned because one 300 page poorly written bill was pulled down. We will be looking at this issue again. Lets not forget all the school levies that failed last night and the anti health mandate amendment that passed last night.

Author:	Rynar [ Wed Nov 09, 2011 11:38 pm ]
Post subject:
In an odd turn-of-events I never anticipated, the Occupy Providence movement has been co-opted by a group of young, well-spoke libertarians... it's the damnedest thing...

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Author:	Corolinth [ Wed Nov 09, 2011 11:01 am ]
Post subject:
Smashing victory for blue people all around. Why, blue people haven't had a grand success like this since the last election, where blue initiatives sent a strong message to red people everywhere that people are fed up with red and want their blue!

Author:	Hopwin [ Wed Nov 09, 2011 11:42 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Election Results, Republican Idiocy or Occupy X Success?
Diamondeye wrote: No. $499 over what timeframe? To most people, $499 per $100,000 doesn't sound like a lot.. and when was the last time you saw something for 4.99 mils? That's an enormous increase; I can't remember the last time I saw anything over 1 mil. I saw 4.99 yesterday. To address your point, include the length of time in the language and if $500 more dollars in taxes per year doesn't sound like a lot to you then please tell what industry you work in and if they are hiring.

Author:	Diamondeye [ Wed Nov 09, 2011 12:01 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Election Results, Republican Idiocy or Occupy X Success?
I said $499 per 100,000 doesn't sound like a lot, not $499 doesn't sound like a lot by itself. People are already looking at 4.99 mils and think "meh, doesn't sound like much" because they think of their tax bill as a whole, to all levels of government, and they largely would do the same with $499 per $100K. The real problem with property taxes, in Ohio at least, isn't whether they use mils or dollars on the ballots, it's the hystrionics used in any campaign about "ZOMG we'll have to cut services! Class sizes will increase!" where they have some cute young teacher looking plantively at the camera and implying if you don't vote for it, you hate children or some ****. Furthermore, 4.99 mils is still unusually high.

Author:	Hopwin [ Wed Nov 09, 2011 12:44 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Election Results, Republican Idiocy or Occupy X Success?
Diamondeye wrote: I said $499 per 100,000 doesn't sound like a lot, not $499 doesn't sound like a lot by itself. People are already looking at 4.99 mils and think "meh, doesn't sound like much" because they think of their tax bill as a whole, to all levels of government, and they largely would do the same with $499 per $100K. The real problem with property taxes, in Ohio at least, isn't whether they use mils or dollars on the ballots, it's the hystrionics used in any campaign about "ZOMG we'll have to cut services! Class sizes will increase!" where they have some cute young teacher looking plantively at the camera and implying if you don't vote for it, you hate children or some ****. Furthermore, 4.99 mils is still unusually high. Technically the real problem with Ohio property taxes is that the Ohio Supreme Court ruled that funding schools through property taxes was unconstitutional on 5 separate occasions.

Author:	Diamondeye [ Wed Nov 09, 2011 12:47 pm ]
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There is that too, but the issue here is balloting, and property tax issues for schools are just one example of it.

Author:	Rorinthas [ Wed Nov 09, 2011 2:44 pm ]
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I saw 8 mils defeated somewhere in the Dayton media area.

Author:	Killuas [ Wed Nov 09, 2011 10:17 pm ]
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As far as issue 2 goes it was too much. A lot of people were fine with parts of it and if those were what was up for a vote I think it would have passed. I also think a lot of people hate the governor John Kasich and just wanted to see his smug face get smacked since he supported it so hard.

Author:	Serienya [ Wed Nov 09, 2011 11:35 pm ]
Post subject:	Re:
Elmarnieh wrote: Democrats control Montgomery County Pa for the first time in 140 years. We got our Controller in so we can keep an eye on their office budgets but that's it. Your Controller being Castor? I couldn't vote for him. Not after he stated that a triple murderer may have been influenced by role-playing games like D&D. Because D&D has knives and swords and stuff.