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Wealthy people are less ethical - study
https://gladerebooted.net/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=8274
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Author:  Lydiaa [ Mon Feb 27, 2012 7:53 pm ]
Post subject:  Wealthy people are less ethical - study

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/wo ... 6283551936

Quote:
PEOPLE from the wealthy upper classes are more likely than poorer people to break laws while driving, take lollies from children and lie for financial gain, according to a US study.

The seven-part study by psychologists at the University of California Berkeley and the University of Toronto analysed people's behavior through a series of experiments.

For instance, drivers of expensive vehicles such as Mercedes, BMW and Toyota's Prius hybrid were seen breaking the rules more often at four-way intersections than people who drove a Camry or Corolla.

They were also more likely to cut off pedestrians trying to cross the street than drivers of cheaper cars.

In another test using a game of dice, given the opportunity to win a $50 prize, people who self-reported high socio-economic status were more likely to lie and say that they had rolled higher numbers than they actually had.

."Even in people for whom $50 is a relatively small amount of money, cheating was three times as high," said lead author Paul Piff of UC Berkeley.

"It really shows the extreme lengths to which wealth and upper rank status in society can shape patterns of self-interest and unethicality," he told AFP.

In other studies, people with higher status were less likely to tell the truth in a hypothetical job negotiation in which they were the employer trying to hire someone for a job they knew was soon to be eliminated.

And when given a jar of lollies that they were told was for children in a nearby lab - though they could take some if they wanted - the richest people took more than anyone else.

Even Mr Piff, who has studied the impact of wealth on people's morality and charitable giving in the past - finding that rich people tend to give less to charity than poor people - was surprised to see them taking sweets from kids.

"I was astonished," Mr Piff said. "On average, people in the upper rank condition took two times as much, so it was a pretty sizeable effect."

Also, in that particular study, researchers conditioned some of the subjects first to think of themselves as of a higher social rank by asking them to compare themselves to others with less.

The exercise showed that people could be trained to think more highly of themselves, and that they would in turn act with more greed and less ethicality, demonstrating that status drives greed.

"We also got them to increase their likelihood of saying 'I'd do all these unethical things,"' such as keeping the change without saying a word if a coffee shop cashier returned them too much money.

The study, which appears in the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences, theorises that a series of factors "may give rise to a set of culturally shared norms among upper class individuals."

For instance, richer people are more independent from others, have more resources and are therefore less concerned with what others think of their actions than poorer people, the authors suggested.

According to Mr Piff, people with more money tend to look more positively on greed and rely less on family and friend networks for support in times of need, and this elevated status tends to disconnect them from society.

"It is that very different level of privilege in your everyday life that gives rise to this independence from others, this reduced sensitivity to the impact of your behaviour on others' welfare, and the prioritisation of your self-interest," he said.

Certainly there are exceptions, said the study, pointing to famous upper-class whistleblowers at Worldcom and Enron; and wealthy philanthropists such as Bill Gates and Warren Buffett.

Previous research linking poverty and violent crime also disproves the notion that all poor people are more ethical than the rich, it added.

However, self-interest is "a more fundamental motive among society's elite, and the increased want associated with greater wealth and status can promote wrongdoing," it said.

Although the study focused on US subjects, with each of the seven parts measuring between 100 and 200 participants, Mr Piff said the findings are likely to be relevant to societies outside America, too.

"These patterns are going to be particularly salient in societies where wealth is as unequally distributed as it is here," he said.


Author:  Rorinthas [ Mon Feb 27, 2012 11:17 pm ]
Post subject:  Wealthy people are less ethical - study

So?

Author:  Rynar [ Mon Feb 27, 2012 11:34 pm ]
Post subject: 

Post the exact conditions, and then reproduce the results.

Author:  Kaffis Mark V [ Mon Feb 27, 2012 11:45 pm ]
Post subject:  Re:

Rynar wrote:
Post the exact conditions, and then reproduce the results.

And the demographics used. Are wealthy people "less ethical" than, say, middle-class people? Or does this trend continue down to "middle class people are less ethical than people in poverty"?

Because those are two very different situations, and one is not implied by the title of this thread (which is named after the title of the article).

Author:  Rynar [ Mon Feb 27, 2012 11:49 pm ]
Post subject: 

Agreed and echoed, Kaffis, although that was my intention when I asked for the exact conditions.

Author:  Jocificus [ Tue Feb 28, 2012 12:03 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Wealthy people are less ethical - study

Most of the people I know that are in poverty are there because of drug abuse, including alcoholism, mental issues of some kind, or because they're lazy.

They're also almost all the "worst" people I know.

Most of the people I know that are upper class are very much their opposites.

I realize my personal experience is meaningless as a whole, but something tells me there's a lot more to this than is let on in the article.

Author:  Hopwin [ Tue Feb 28, 2012 7:51 am ]
Post subject: 

I'd be willing to bet it is because a lot of "wealthy" people were born into it with an entitlement mentality that society has been reinforcing (see: Kardashians, Paris Hilton, Nicole Ritchie and any other show on E!)

Author:  Rorinthas [ Tue Feb 28, 2012 8:21 am ]
Post subject:  Wealthy people are less ethical - study

Cars behaving badly by nameplate is a poor (no pun intended) indicator of "Wealth" lots of people in the middle working class drive older Mercedes, Cadillacs, etc. They just go into debt or give up other luxuries to do it. On the flip side I know several middle/upper management folks who swear by their admittedly newer Toyotas, Fords and GMs, especially if they work or a company that has ties to one of those lines.

Also "self-reporting a high social economic status" is just as, if not more vague.

Author:  Oonagh [ Tue Feb 28, 2012 9:12 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Wealthy people are less ethical - study

Rorinthas wrote:
So?


This

Mayor in Ghostbusters II wrote:
Being miserable and treating other people like dirt is every New Yorker's god-given right. Your 2 minutes are up, good night gentlemen


Being miserable and treating other people like dirt is every US American's god-given right. Your 2 minutes are up, good night gentlemen

Author:  TheRiov [ Tue Feb 28, 2012 9:24 am ]
Post subject:  Re:

Rynar wrote:
Post the exact conditions, and then reproduce the results.

this is never a standard that we've held here. You may not like the results or disagree with the methodology, but we've never asked a poster to duplicate an experiment. (An utterly absurd standard to have, since outside of myself and perhaps Khross, I doubt anyone here has ANY experience whatsoever in conducting any type of social research, and the meager amount of experience I have, certainly doesn't qualify me to do so)

Author:  Arathain Kelvar [ Tue Feb 28, 2012 10:03 am ]
Post subject:  Re:

Rynar wrote:
Post the exact conditions, and then reproduce the results.


That's a bit of an unreasonable request. Article that was of interest was posted, we'll need to comment based on what we've been provided.

It's certainly reasonable to say something along the lines of, "without knowing the exact conditions, and seeing a similar study, I'm not going to take this at face value". And with that, I agree.

Author:  Talya [ Tue Feb 28, 2012 10:35 am ]
Post subject: 

I believe the point of the article, is that, the more people get, the more successful they are, the more miserable they are to each other. Is that true? I don't know, and I don't care enough to research the article in the OP. It doesn't sound unreasonable to me, though. Human beings are pretty miserable all around. We've become spectacular at cruelty; screwing each other over and inflicting suffering on other humans, while at the same time being capable of showing great compassion and mercy. Often these qualities exist in the same person.

It's just human nature.

Author:  Micheal [ Tue Feb 28, 2012 11:00 am ]
Post subject: 

IMHO most people aren't unethical in their own heads, just in the observations of people observing them. There is always some justification that makes personal corruption justifiable. This goes back to the concept that power corrupts, and absolute power corrupts absolutely.

When you have the resources to use the power, it is easier to justify it to yourself.

Once they get caught, that is when some folks understand they were being corrupt.

Most folks can forgive a poor person for stealing small stuff. They think of it as survival, not corruption.

Not universal, just a general trend.

Author:  Rynar [ Tue Feb 28, 2012 11:41 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Re:

Arathain Kelvar wrote:
Rynar wrote:
Post the exact conditions, and then reproduce the results.


That's a bit of an unreasonable request. Article that was of interest was posted, we'll need to comment based on what we've been provided.

It's certainly reasonable to say something along the lines of, "without knowing the exact conditions, and seeing a similar study, I'm not going to take this at face value". And with that, I agree.
to yourself and Theriov:

I didn't mean to imply that I expected anyone here to recreate this study. My post was directed at the universe in general, and was intended to display my skepticism, nothing more.

Author:  Arathain Kelvar [ Tue Feb 28, 2012 12:30 pm ]
Post subject: 

Word.

Author:  Xequecal [ Tue Feb 28, 2012 3:47 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Wealthy people are less ethical - study

Uhm, duh? You don't get rich by being a nice person, and you especially won't get rich if you're second-guessing every decision you make as to whether it's ethical or not, rather than just analyzing risk/reward.

Author:  Arathain Kelvar [ Tue Feb 28, 2012 5:14 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Wealthy people are less ethical - study

Xequecal wrote:
Uhm, duh? You don't get rich by being a nice person, and you especially won't get rich if you're second-guessing every decision you make as to whether it's ethical or not, rather than just analyzing risk/reward.


BG: Buy 'em out, boys!

H: Hey, what the hell's going on?

BG: Oh, I didn't get rich by writing a lot of checks!

Author:  SuiNeko [ Tue Feb 28, 2012 5:31 pm ]
Post subject:  Wealthy people are less ethical - study

Xequecal wrote:
Uhm, duh? You don't get rich by being a nice person, and you especially won't get rich if you're second-guessing every decision you make as to whether it's ethical or not, rather than just analyzing risk/reward.


Depends on what you mean by 'rich' but you can definitely do ok while torturing yourself about the ethics of it.

Honest.

Author:  Wwen [ Tue Feb 28, 2012 6:55 pm ]
Post subject: 

Argh, You beat my thread!
http://arstechnica.com/science/news/201 ... t-does.ars

Author:  Diamondeye [ Tue Feb 28, 2012 8:36 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Wealthy people are less ethical - study

Quote:
Although the study focused on US subjects, with each of the seven parts measuring between 100 and 200 participants, Mr Piff said the findings are likely to be relevant to societies outside America, too.

"These patterns are going to be particularly salient in societies where wealth is as unequally distributed as it is here," he said.


Mr. Piff's agenda is showing.

Author:  Wwen [ Tue Feb 28, 2012 8:47 pm ]
Post subject: 

Strip them of their wealth so that can be more ethical, like Mr. Piff?

Author:  Rynar [ Wed Feb 29, 2012 2:34 am ]
Post subject: 

X:

Total horseshit.

Author:  RangerDave [ Wed Feb 29, 2012 11:35 am ]
Post subject:  Re:

Rynar wrote:
X: Total horseshit.

Not really. Ignore loaded language like "ethical" and "nice" for a second and think about a sports analogy. Imagine two players of equal skill, both of whom play entirely within the rules, but Player A is very competitive by nature and figures that's how the game is meant to be played, so he focuses on getting as high a score as possible, presses every advantage and capitalizes on every mistake the other guy makes, while Player B is significantly less competitive and figures the game is meant to be played that way, so he doesn't run up the score when he's ahead and he doesn't really press every time the other guy screws up. Who do you think will end up with a higher score at the end of the game? Do you think Player B will think Player A is a "good sport" (i.e. "nice")?

Author:  Aizle [ Wed Feb 29, 2012 1:24 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Re:

RangerDave wrote:
Rynar wrote:
X: Total horseshit.

Not really. Ignore loaded language like "ethical" and "nice" for a second and think about a sports analogy. Imagine two players of equal skill, both of whom play entirely within the rules, but Player A is very competitive by nature and figures that's how the game is meant to be played, so he focuses on getting as high a score as possible, presses every advantage and capitalizes on every mistake the other guy makes, while Player B is significantly less competitive and figures the game is meant to be played that way, so he doesn't run up the score when he's ahead and he doesn't really press every time the other guy screws up. Who do you think will end up with a higher score at the end of the game? Do you think Player B will think Player A is a "good sport" (i.e. "nice")?


This.

Author:  Khross [ Wed Feb 29, 2012 1:28 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Wealthy people are less ethical - study

So, in trying to disagree with Rynar, you substantiate exactly why Xequecal's position is total horseshit.

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